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Old 11-23-2008, 02:29 PM   #1
sorokod
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YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

Saito Morihiro sensei demonstrates most of the basics from morotedori: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgIcPJYY9Qs

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Old 11-24-2008, 03:00 AM   #2
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

Excellent videoclip.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:16 PM   #3
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Morotedori

I remember that Nishio sensei was not that fond of morotedori, because uke's both hands are occupied while tori has one hand free - not a very wise attack form.

I teach my students to do morotedori so that they grab the arm and immediately move behind tori, into sort of a yonkyo position. I think that I learned it from Ichimura sensei, who was a student of Nishio sensei.

Both ways of dong morotedori are interesting, of course. They lead to quite different aikido technique solutions.

Stefan Stenudd
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Old 12-04-2008, 01:33 AM   #4
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Morotedori

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
I teach my students to do morotedori so that they grab the arm and immediately move behind tori, into sort of a yonkyo position.
We also either do yonkyo or cut straight down.
In both cases we (try to) move nage in way he can't use his other hand.

We don't consider morote dori to be a wise attack but a form to deal with an opponent who has got a lot of power.

Carsten
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:18 AM   #5
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

When uke does Morotedori with a strong connection into nage's center it is very difficult for the nage to move, let alone punch with the free hand (or kick for that matter) which I suppose what makes for exellent kokyu training.

Saito Sensei would demonstrate flowing into Morotedori from Shomenuchi where the uke cuts down nage's hand and grabs it with the other while changing hanmi. You can see this in http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RrRIk7UNLAA at 00:16 and again at 00:32

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Old 12-04-2008, 03:45 AM   #6
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

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David Soroko wrote: View Post
Saito Sensei would demonstrate flowing into Morotedori from Shomenuchi where the uke cuts down nage's hand and grabs it with the other while changing hanmi. You can see this in http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RrRIk7UNLAA at 00:16 and again at 00:32
Oh, you mean the son. When you wrote Saito sensei I assumed the father.
Anyway, that is approximately how we do the application of morotedori - but we don't hold tori's arm that low, because in my experience that makes it too easy for tori to turn around and strike uke with the free hand. So, we hold it up at about chest level, and make sure that tori's arm is bent - well, like yonkyo.

Here's how we do it (see the photo, and click the camera for a short video clip):
http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/ikkyo-ushiro.htm#moroo

Last edited by Stefan Stenudd : 12-04-2008 at 03:51 AM. Reason: Added link.

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Old 12-04-2008, 04:00 AM   #7
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

Both the father and the son demonstrated Morotedori from a Shomen attack.

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Old 12-04-2008, 08:34 AM   #8
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

We try to emphasize how the particular attack may arise, or how a particular grip may occur on uke's way to something else in a dynamic interaction. For instance, a low-grip morotedori at nage's side may occur if uke is trying to prevent nage from drawing a weapon (sword, knife, gun, ...)---leaving uke more concerned with the weapon than the free hand. Or, perhaps uke did a cross arm grab, moved in behind nage, struck at nage's ribs, and then grabbed the arm with both hands to attempt shihonage (kaeshi waza). Maybe uke was attempting to circle behind nage, but nage began to turn with uke and then faster than uke, so uke grabs morotedori instead as an alternate attack of opportunity.

Even in the yonkyo-ish hold position, uke wouldn't stand all day attempting to control nage like that---otherwise, we wouldn't have yonkyo

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Old 12-04-2008, 02:00 PM   #9
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
Saito Morihiro sensei demonstrates most of the basics from morotedori: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgIcPJYY9Qs
It is very evident from this video, that his uke preserves his balance almost to the end of the technique. His heels are firmly rooted into the tatami all the time.

Normally, in the first moment of the contact, uke should be at the top of his toes and the job of Nage is to preserve this off balance to the end of the technique. This is the only way to throw somebody for real; otherwise you need a lot of cooperation from uke.

The other interesting fact is that sensei is not fully using his hips while redirecting uke attack. I think it happens because uke is over cooperating and his attack is simply none existing. So Nage is not forced to fully turn his hips and the correct form of the technique is compromised.

Nagababa

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Old 12-04-2008, 02:25 PM   #10
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
Here's how we do it (see the photo, and click the camera for a short video clip):
http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/ikkyo-ushiro.htm#moroo
Here I can only repeat my remark about uke that is well rooted all time and falls down without any reason. While nage elbow is up, it is very illusory to think you can break Uke grip having your arm out of your center, particularly when uke balance is not taken.

The moment when you are putting you elbow down, you are using only power of your shoulder, the hips are centered on other direction and are not used at all. This way can't be used against somebody who is stronger than nage and is neutral (means no over cooperating but not countering)
I'll not recommend such strange way of doing technique to anybody.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:04 PM   #11
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

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Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
It is very evident from this video, that his uke preserves his balance almost to the end of the technique. His heels are firmly rooted into the tatami all the time.
The heels are in the ground, nevertheless the balance is thoroughly broken, watch the uke's center.

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Old 12-04-2008, 03:07 PM   #12
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Re: YouTube: Morihiro Saito Sensei - Morotedori Techniques

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Normally, in the first moment of the contact, uke should be at the top of his toes and the job of Nage is to preserve this off balance to the end of the technique. This is the only way to throw somebody for real; otherwise you need a lot of cooperation from uke.
Your point of view leaves aikisage interestingly out of the picture...
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