aikido vs MMA figther

Hi , I was talking with some friends about MMA and suddenly someone made me an interesting question ,
How can you be so sure that your Aikido is so good to defend your self if your enemy practce MMA ,how can you be so sure if any one of you can´t figth because is not alow in the Dojo,
when you practice in your dojo you can do anything with Uke but just image wthat is figthing Thiago Alves ,will you apply Kickboxing ,sanda, jui jutsu mix whit Aikido .. or just Aikido ,
I answer my question what about you?

Well you can never really be sure about anything. Every dog has his day.

There are many of us that practice both Traditional AIkido and MMA styles here on Aikiweb.

There are many good threads if you search on Aikido, real fight, and "does it work".

It is a complicated and very diverse subject area and one of the most popular topics here on Aikiweb.

IMO, the bottomline is that if you are interested in learning how to fight. The only way to really do that is to approximate the conditions and such as close as possible when you train. "Train as you fight".

I am an experienced Aikidoka with over 3 Decades in the Martial Arts...

I am also (on November 11th) 48 years old and I would bet the 26 year old Thiago Alves would clean my clock though if I got lucky I could last a round with him before my arms and head fell off due to complete exhaustion. In my opinion pound for pound Alves is one of the best up and coming MMA fighters on the planet. At the very least he is made of steel and hits HARD!

Me I am just a regular old Joe with a decent Aikido Practice.

Somethings just don't bear comparison my friend

We FAG's (Former Action Guys) have a running joke about Ninja's versus Viking's and who is better...

Everyone can agree that CHUCK NORRIS is.

Hopefully you'll see my point.

William Hazen

Thanks , wise is your answer , that´s why you train and study Aikido( both of you)

I'd apply a stun gun the Aikido way..blend, harmonize and ZAPP! I am an Aikidoka who thinking out side ring.

Douglas Fajardo wrote: Thanks , wise is your answer , that´s why you train and study Aikido( both of you)

Hey, Jun, can I make a Yoda joke without being banned?

How about implicitly?

Douglas Fajardo wrote: I answer my question what about you?

If you are still studying aikido, the answer is - no. If you already forgot aikido there is a chance. Just trust yourself. Your body will react properly to any threat.

Oh yea, did mention a stun gun? How bout a Taser? Just thinking outside the box...err...ring.

The best thing is to get those stun guns that don't look like stun guns. Then at the right moment of the perfect maai happens, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZAPPP!
Then when his floor dancing is done, throw a pin on him, an Aikido one. It doesn't require your whole body to do it, like MMA.

Booya, he's been owned!

Would the OP accept a fight with this Thiago Alves?

That is an interesting question, I wonder if anyone else has ever asked it.

Do people often come up against these awesome MMA fighters like Thiago Alves on the street? It would seem so as often as posts like this come up.
Look, I'll answer your question like this. Many of us who presently train in Aikido have a background in other martial arts so in that sense many of us have an MMA background. I feel quite certain of my ability to defend myself if I need to, but the truth of the matter is there are no guarantees in combat because there are too many unpredictable variables. What this means to me is that training increases your probability of success in defending yourself but does not guarantee it . So there is a possibility you could beat Thiago Alves on the street just like there is a possibility a complete novice with no experience could kick your ass.
Thinking that training in any style or styles guarantees success is to dismiss the unpredictability of true combat. This is why in the end there is really no answer to your question, nor will there be an answer in the relatively short period of time when it gets asked again as it has been so many times before on this forum

Gregg,

Didn't you know, that is the whole point of all these countless threads like this one going up against a pro MMA fighter in the ring/octagon and who will win! In these things you can't be matched with your almighty weekend internet MMAer, say in the street. And MMer's never talk about the street or the weapon variable. It has to be in the "ring" ending up on the ground against a pro. A MMA pro that 99.99% of all MMAers will never go up against a pro MMA fighter themselves under the same circumstances, and if they did they would lose miserably. That is the whole catch, you hit the nail on head. So what ever the talk is, it boils then down to it takes a pro MMA fighter to go up against the average Aikidoka in a venue for MMA fighters.

What I can't figure out why it is so important. I don't live my life by hormone laden sport cockfights. Like most who watch a MMA pro-fight it is very entertaining, but I don't live vicariously like some. I still want to see a MMer fight against a Jon Woo double stun gun fight.

Onegaishimasu. Someone who truly studies aikido will continue to practice, showing up at the dojo, attending seminars and camps, and generally paying attention. Those of us who study aikido have our questions, and we practice with those questions
.In my own opinion, MMA is a fad and a fashion and also a distraction. I am grateful that my own study of aikido and buddhism knows enough to "keep going."

In gassho,

Mark

I can beat anyone if we fight on my terms and when I can't fight on my terms I run away.

When people fight on my terms I win quickly and easily, not because my Aikido is any good but because they never had a chance in the first place.

Gregg,

you come up with a good point of unpredictable variables. In a ring these unpredictable variables are reduced to almost nill where fighters fight within a defined narrow scope of predictability. That is enhanced evenmore as each fighter has the opportunity to scope out the other's fighting strength and weakness. A predicability then is even stronger in the fight where variables are reduce to a handful of predictable moves and maneuvers in the ring.

Variables are not welcomed in MMA ring. Variables do exist but are limited and subjective under the rules. Rules also reduce greatly the variables. Just like matching up fighter weights, ages, rankings and their fighting preferences if not all then in part.

MMA fighters are narrowly trained for the ring under rules, conditions that insure variables are slim, controlled and predictable. Unlike the street. If you can say anything about Aikido, it does (or should) train for the unknown, the unpredictable variables.

Alex you shouldn't let out any of your secrets.

Phillip Wrote:

MMA fighters are narrowly trained for the ring under rules, conditions that insure variables are slim, controlled and predictable. Unlike the street. If you can say anything about Aikido, it does (or should) train for the unknown, the unpredictable variables.

These are assumptions. In my experiences, MMA fighters (as you call them) are no more narrowly trained than anyone else. In fact, less narrowly trained.

Aikido should train for the "unknown"?

Maybe, maybe not. Aikido, IMO, should train for the tenants and philosophy of aikido. Those things are known and aikido, as trained in most dojos actually does a fairly good job of training students for those "known factors".

The situations that you define as "unknown" are actually identifiable as "known". RBSD scenarios can be designed to approximate the situations and variables in a controlled manner that one might most likely face.

One can then develop "strategies" for dealing with those situations. Most of these strategies are based on "high percentage" success, martial efficiency, and take advantage of natural reactions (startle/flinch).

This type of training, while indeed martially related to aikido, IMO, has very little to do with the overall methodology of aikido, which is about the concept of Budo.

Budo takes a more holistic and longer range focus on development that considers the improvement of the person physically, mentally, and spiritually.

I wish it were as simple as boiling things down to particular styles, rules, and situations, but unfortunately (or fortunately) conflict, life, and budo are simply not that easy.

My comments also tend to run the same line as Alex's. I can beat anyone if I get to choose the time, place, and conditions of the fight. Military and fighting strategy is really all about that!

That said, most of us, if involved in conflict don't get to choose all those things. We must then fall back on our past experiences to reach for some degree of skillfullness to bring forward and deal with whatever is thrown at us.

Outcomes depend on many things. There are many ways to "win" as well. Physcially dying or being severally physically injured may not be the worst thing that can actually happen to you. Living a life well lived and in balance can be very important.

IMO, this is what is most important in our studies...this is the goal of budo. Some call it training for "preparing to die a good death".

I think that focus is the right one and why we need to train. If we do it right, we cannot really loose...no matter what the outcome of the "fight" might be.

Double or nothing this thread goes to over a hundred posts.

William Hazen

I 'm not taking that bet. If I answer Kevin it will go over a hundred

Kevin when did MMA become a budo, and when did MMA drop its rules?


two posts worth?

Budo is a philosophy or a way of life. The way of the warrior.

It is not owned by anyone or any style. IMO, it can be inclusive of "MMA".

Agreed William, I am betting this will go over a 100.

Not sure I understand you question about MMA dropping it's rules? That would depend on WHICH MMA paradigm you are talking about.

Kevin Leavitt wrote: Budo is a philosophy or a way of life. The way of the warrior. It is not owned by anyone or any style. IMO, it can be inclusive of "MMA". Agreed William, I am betting this will go over a 100. Not sure I understand you question about MMA dropping it's rules? That would depend on WHICH MMA paradigm you are talking about.

Don't think so. Budo is inclusive. Just as being the Queen Of England. MMA are not Budoka. Just as Knights aren't Samurai. Just as black doesn't mean white. MMA are not Budoka. MMA is an entertainment sport. MMA are professional ring fighters and not fire fighters.

Okay..whatever. WIki has a pretty good synopsis of budo. My interpretation is pretty I guess more liberal than yours, which seems to be a more fundamentalist view on things.

Budo has more to do with the philosophical and spiritual aspects of practice and living than the physical.

However, literally, if I follow a fundamentalist view, I could argue that most here could not be budoka since they are not in the military and therefore could not really experience the true nature of Budoka, but are simple LARPERs.

Your analogies also are not good ones as it is possible for a MMA ring fighter to be a fireman and fight fires.

but again...whatever.

Kevin Leavitt wrote: Okay..whatever. WIki has a pretty good synopsis of budo. My interpretation is pretty I guess more liberal than yours, which seems to be a more fundamentalist view on things. Budo has more to do with the philosophical and spiritual aspects of practice and living than the physical. However, literally, if I follow a fundamentalist view, I could argue that most here could not be budoka since they are not in the military and therefore could not really experience the true nature of Budoka, but are simple LARPERs. Your analogies also are not good ones as it is possible for a MMA ring fighter to be a fireman and fight fires. but again...whatever.

Your right we better end this while your ahead.

Philip Burgess wrote: Don't think so. Budo is inclusive. MMA are not Budoka.

I'm not sure I follow. If budo is inclusive, wouldn't that imply MMA could be included? ...that they're not mutually exclusive ideas?

MMA is an entertainment sport. MMA are professional ring fighters and not fire fighters.

I think this is one of those which varies between people. Soccer is an entertainment sport to some, a way to stay in shape to others, and something only girls and foreigners play to yet others (courtesy of the construction culture). MMA is much the same i think and so I don't see how a person couldn't apply budo and MMA to each other.
To the OP, I just want to reiterate the idea that people train for different things. I don't train to take on top level MMA fighters so my odds are pretty slight. On the other hand, no one is invulnerable.

Matthew Gano wrote: I'm not sure I follow. If budo is inclusive, wouldn't that imply MMA could be included? ...that they're not mutually exclusive ideas?

It was a typo, I must have been channelling Kevin, I meant exclusive. Through the word inclusive or exclusive isn't accurate. A better word would be distinctive; uniquely characteristic of a person, group, or thing. Also a characteristic quality or distinctive feature of something; property. Budo has distinguishable properties and characteristics. A parallel to look in those terms are fraternal orders, occupations, professions, religions, etc. Budo being inclusive isn't as Kevin said. Saying just because you fight doesn't make you a Budoka. Just because you dress a wound doesn't make you a doctor. As Kevin was stating inclusive meant nothing is excluded. Kevin being in MMA, combatives, and Aikidoka, he includes everything so he sees everything as being inclusive.

If he was true to his inclusiveness he wouldn't see Aikido verses MMA fighter. A verses this or that would not exist. But I know he is just messing with me.