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Old 10-05-2008, 01:21 AM   #1
Enrique Antonio Reyes
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Lightbulb How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

A couple of months ago I came across a thread discussing the hip throw some guy from the movie "Incredible Hulk" was teaching Dr. Bruce Banner. They referred to it as an "Aikido" throw. I noticed that the guy they were talking about was Rickson Gracie of the BJJ first family (Gracie JJ) fame so I assume he was representing BJJ there.

My question is "How do you actually know if it is Aikido?

One-Aiki,

Iking
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:45 AM   #2
Flintstone
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

I would say it's not about the technique, but about the way it's performed. Haven't seen the movie, so...
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:07 AM   #3
Mark Uttech
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Onegaishimasu. One can't do a certain technique and claim it is an aikido technique. Likewise, you can't claim that anything can be aikido. It is a wonderful paradox that all aikido students face sooner or later. It is very much like the paradox of life being impossible, but something we do every day.

In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 10-05-2008, 10:04 AM   #4
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Also keep in mind that many of the arts have borrowed from each other. Aikido does have some koshinage's that are from judo. I believe that many of the grappling/throwing arts have many techniques and throws that are alike. As the poster said above, it's really all in the way the technique is done.

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Old 10-05-2008, 10:34 AM   #5
B.J.M.
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

I believe it is all about intention.

Forms of irimi-nage and kotegaeshi exist in karate schools as well as some of Aikido's throws and take downs can find their origins in some jujitsu styles.

What is ones intention and what's in their heart when the technique is being applied? This, to me anyway, is what makes the difference. Anything can be "Aikido" as long as the arts principles are being used and practiced.

It starts with the heart; everything else is just a label.

My two cents......
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:56 PM   #6
Ketsan
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

You'd have to feel it.
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:54 AM   #7
ilia rudnitskiy
 
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Aikido is more of a concept, rather than a noun or adjective...
But if you're speaking of certain movements or martial arts, I guess you could say anything that is flowing, requires none of your own energy, and doesn't harm your opponent is Aikido-like.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:36 AM   #8
Amir Krause
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Does anyone know of a technique which exists only in Aikido?

To the best of my knowledge, I have seen variation of most techniques in more then one other style, and I got to see those without exploring for them ...

Amir
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:18 AM   #9
sorokod
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Does anyone know of a technique which exists only in Aikido?

To the best of my knowledge, I have seen variation of most techniques in more then one other style, and I got to see those without exploring for them ...

Amir
I doubt that there is technique that is unique to Aikido. There is a set of techniques (with some fuzziness on the boundaries) that
are Aikido techniques. I guess that this set is pretty much determined by the grading requirements.
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:38 AM   #10
Larry Cuvin
 
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

"I doubt that there is technique that is unique to Aikido."

What about yonkyo? The yonkyo finish might be Aikido specific. I'm not really sure but just trowing it out there.

Plus Ki
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:51 AM   #11
sorokod
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Larry Cuvin wrote: View Post
"...What about yonkyo?...
What about it?
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:20 AM   #12
Flintstone
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Larry Cuvin wrote: View Post
What about yonkyo? The yonkyo finish might be Aikido specific. I'm not really sure but just trowing it out there.
It comes from Daito Ryu, so no. But I recall having read Rinjiro Shirata stating that Irimi Nage was a creation of O'Sensei. Maybe that one?
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:36 AM   #13
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
.. Irimi Nage was a creation of O'Sensei. Maybe that one?
Maybe.


"This last technique is special, in that it allows one to quickly throw ones opponent without effort; here O, standing close to N, strongly places his left foot behind the left leg of N, and quickly grabs his throat over his arms, throwing him grandly on the back."
Clear Instructions to the Excellent Art of Wrestling. Nicolaes Petter. Amsterdam 1674.

(There are also yonkyo and shihonage in that book).

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Old 10-06-2008, 09:42 AM   #14
C. David Henderson
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

What a great drawing. Thank you.

DH
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:00 AM   #15
sorokod
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Excellent, here is the link: Clear Instructions to the Excellent Art of Wrestling
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:59 AM   #16
Flintstone
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Great try, Demetrio, but that looks more like Daito Ryu's Kubi Wa, from the Sankajo. No doubt one of the precursors of Irimi Nage.



Anyway, more than the throw itself, maybe he was referring to the irimi entry? I don't really know, just a guess.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:53 PM   #17
salim
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Ilia Rudnitskiy wrote: View Post
Aikido is more of a concept, rather than a noun or adjective...
But if you're speaking of certain movements or martial arts, I guess you could say anything that is flowing, requires none of your own energy, and doesn't harm your opponent is Aikido-like.
I have to say the concept of harming can be tricky, very subjective to the situation or the opponent that is involved. Aiki has a broad array of meanings to many people.

I would say more or less, subduing the opponent is more the way I would describe it. Using flow and the opponents energy to redirect and allow for some sort of lock/choke to stop the aggression. Some Aiki techniques will cause some degree of pain.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:07 AM   #18
Flintstone
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Some Aiki techniques will cause some degree of pain.
Geez! Right! Any nage waza can be very destructive if uke doesn't know ukemi (in da streetz)... What's there about "love" and "the art of peace" in that?
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:52 PM   #19
ramenboy
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

i think i remember kanai sensei saying something like '...if i do a judo technique in the spirit of aiki, then its aikido...'
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:02 PM   #20
Ron Tisdale
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

I was always puzzled by Shirata Sensei's statement in that interview.

AAAAaaaalllllllleeeeeeeennnnnn! Are you there? Any ideas?

Best,
Ron (that was for Allen...)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:51 AM   #21
Mato-san
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Great try, Demetrio, but that looks more like Daito Ryu's Kubi Wa, from the Sankajo. No doubt one of the precursors of Irimi Nage.



Anyway, more than the throw itself, maybe he was referring to the irimi entry? I don't really know, just a guess.
Wow nice! I always had pictured Irimi nage/kokyu nage to have multiple openings to choke.

Here is a nice flick you may have seen before...maybe not huge in the Aikido arena but if you appreciate relaxed application of technique that uses gravity not to push, pull or jerk.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=c8_FevrLdaw

Poetry in motion.

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:55 AM   #22
salim
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote: View Post
Wow nice! I always had pictured Irimi nage/kokyu nage to have multiple openings to choke.

Here is a nice flick you may have seen before...maybe not huge in the Aikido arena but if you appreciate relaxed application of technique that uses gravity not to push, pull or jerk.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=c8_FevrLdaw

Poetry in motion.
Awesome video clip. Gravity used at it's best.
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:33 AM   #23
Mato-san
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Re: How would you know if the technique is "Aikido"?

Beautiful isn't it... I would relate it to kotegaishi.. but done underneath uke... no jerk, push or pull....

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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