Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-01-2008, 11:45 AM   #1
ThomasSchmidt
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Spain
Offline
No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Hi to all,

first I'll have to apologize for my bad english - it's not my mother language...

I've been desiring to learn Aikido for years but didn't find any possibility. I'm living in a small town and the next Aikido dojo is 150 kilometers away. The only martial arts offered are Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Boxing, Tai Chi and Karate. That's all. Now I wondered, ok, if I can't learn Aikido i could learn something similar and then later, whenever possible, switch to Aikido (supposing I move with my couple into a bigger town in let's say 5 years). I guess Jiu-Jitsu could be the one "nearest" to Aikido if I'm not mistaken. What about the movement pattern? Is it difficult to change after years?

So what do you think of the idea to start Jiu-Jitsu and to switch to Aikido or is it a bad idea? Is there at all a way for me to "aikidolize" Jiu-Jitsu - to learn Jiu-Jitsu with keeping an eye on finding out certain priciples?

Other idea was to get me a program I heard of - Aikido 3D. I'm totally aware that nobody can learn martial arts only from watching movements and without any partner to train - not to speak of something complex like Aikido. The idea behind was: Is a little (and if it's only watching the movements) better than nothing? Or is the risk of learning the movements wrong too big?

At last ressort I could do boxing to get well-trained physics.

Wow, many (and probably stupid) questions... thanks for reading
Hope anyone has some ideas
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 11:49 AM   #2
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

I would recommend you pay a visit to each of the Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Boxing, Tai Chi and Karate dojos and see which one you like the best.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 12:18 PM   #3
Dan Rubin
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Location: Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 333
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

I agree with Ricky. Five years is a long time to study an art that you don't enjoy. Besides, if you do take up aikido after five years of "preparing" for it, you may discover that you don't enjoy aikido. So pick an art and a school that you'll enjoy now. Besides, all of the arts that you mention include elements that would apply to aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 12:40 PM   #4
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,790
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

I also agree with Ricky. I think you are better off not deciding, in the abstract and without experience, that aikido is what you ultimately want to study. The school is more important than the style, so go look at the local schools. The old rec.martial-arts FAQ has some decent pointers to choosing a school at http://idempot.net/rmafaq/rmafaq1.html#5
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 03:10 PM   #5
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Where in Spain are you?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 04:11 PM   #6
ThomasSchmidt
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Spain
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

I'm in Soria (Castilla y León). In case you don't know it, it's about 220 km in the north of Madrid.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 06:59 PM   #7
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,218
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

When aikido first came to the United States, there were some who thought nothing of driving three hours one way to practice twice a week. I guess you have to ask yourself how badly do you want to learn aikido?

In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 07:22 PM   #8
Enrique Antonio Reyes
Dojo: Yuugou Aikido Kaisho
Location: Manila
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 132
Philippines
Offline
Lightbulb Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

My suggestion is that you go (and join) the judo/jujitsu club. And then when the opportunity comes shift to Aikido.

A lot of people (nowadays) who did Aikido move on to judo/jujitsu so I guess it will be a worthwhile experience to do the opposite.

One-Aiki,

Iking
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 01:58 AM   #9
ThomasSchmidt
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Spain
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Thanks for all the answers,

I tried to get more information bout Aikido/Jiu-Jitsu and found out that most people which tried both find it an good combination which complements each other very well. So I decided to have a look at Jiu-Jitsu and to join a free beginners lession next week.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 03:43 AM   #10
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Thomas, do you know what style of jujutsu are they teching? Most probably it will be "FEJYDA Jiujitsu"... a mix between basic karate, basic judo and basic aikido, very much sports oriented and nothing to do with japanese jujutsu. Just a warning. But of course try and if you like it, go for it.

Best.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 07:11 AM   #11
Larry Feldman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
Dojo: Atlanta School of Aikido
Location: Atlanta, GA
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 329
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

If it is a Japanese Style of Ju Jitsu, it would be a great place to 'start'. Personally I started in Hakko Ryu Ju Jitsu, but when I moved I didn't like what was offerred as 'Ju Jitsu' so I went looking for an Aikido Dojo. Aikido came from Ju Jitsu, the wrist locks are all virtually the same. If the style of Ju Jitsu available has 'softer' elements, or is a softer style you will be doing Aikido.

That said, my instructor now also teaches Tai Chi, so I would look there as well.

As a gross generalization, you could say that Aikido fits in between Ju Jitsu and Tai Chi.

Not to confuse you, but as another consideration - go see the teachers of both. You may have a world class teacher in one, and a 'young' or newer instructor in the other. The teaching style of one may suit you better. The class in one may appeal to you more than the other. This could, and maybe should be as big a consideration.

Good luck with your decision.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2008, 11:53 AM   #12
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,628
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Aikido, the good unique part of it anyways, is more a state of mind, and kind of training then a collection of techniques.

If your heart is set on learning Japanese style techniques, go to the Judo/Jujutsu school. If you're all about the Aikido connection type thing you read about in all the fancy Aikido books, just start training; in anything.

You can train any kind of thing, even non-martial things, and learn Aiki. You just have to open your eyes, question what you see, and be willing to let go of your preconceived notions.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 06:50 AM   #13
KamiKaze_Evolution
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 125
Malaysia
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Rather don't practice Aikido without dojo because you can't survive without dojo for Aikido practice

KamiKaze
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 04:22 PM   #14
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

I think it depends on what kind of jiujitsu it is. Alot of JJ in europe is "sport" or "technique" oriented.

If I had my choice, I'd chose Judo over JJ if that is the case. If it is of the Brazilian style, that is, a grappling based JJ, then I'd say consider it.

Frankly, I think that developing a base in Judo goes along way in learning aikido.

As someone said above, it is alot about the mindset and philosophy at first.

I lived in Germany for 4 years, and did not practice aikido, but BJJ/Grappling and it served me well in my aikido development.

Good luck!

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 04:41 PM   #15
Joe McParland
 
Joe McParland's Avatar
Dojo: Sword Mountain Aikido & Zen
Location: Baltimore, MD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 309
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Just curious: Is there anyone around today who is considered a "shihan" who came up purely in Aikido, with no other substantial martial arts background?

[Here, "shihan" and "substantial" are undefined, but I hope the reader gets the gist.]

When you come to aikido, you bring all of your baggage with you. That means much more than just any prior martial arts training; it's you as you are in your entirety: physically, mentally, spiritually, and whatever else.

Once you do have the opportunity to bow in, you add a new dimension and maybe a new perspective to who you are. You'll have a chance to re-examine everything---especially any physical martial arts techniques / tactics / strategies you've picked up along the way---and decide what is worth keeping, what is worth changing, what adds depth, and so froth.

Eventually, all of this becomes your aikido

Always beginner's mind. Then how can you go wrong?

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 04:58 PM   #16
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

I do know more than one person that is pretty darn good or that I would consider "shihan" level that have pretty much gotten there with only an aikido background.

I don't think you can draw a correalation necessarily based on previous study in other art verses none.

that said, I don't think it hurts you to have a background, and I do feel that personally that at "some point" you really do need to spend some time grappling or doing judo type MA as I believe it can lead to a faster learning curve martially.

In the situation the OP brings, I think it is better to do something rather than nothing and that an art like judo will serve to develop a good base to build aiki upon.

I agree that eventually it is all aikido if you are doing it with aiki as aikido is simply a structured methodology or pedagogy that encourages the development of aiki if you are training it correctly.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 05:24 PM   #17
Joe McParland
 
Joe McParland's Avatar
Dojo: Sword Mountain Aikido & Zen
Location: Baltimore, MD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 309
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I do know more than one person that is pretty darn good or that I would consider "shihan" level that have pretty much gotten there with only an aikido background.

I don't think you can draw a correalation necessarily based on previous study in other art verses none.
Well, that's my point. It seems that all of whom we might call the Aikido Greats today came with their own martial arts experience. The Original Poster can do the same

I agree that there may be some arts that are closer to the techniques of aikido than others, and that there may be arts that are closer spiritually to aikido than others, and that there may be some that better develop the internals / externals / or whatever other aspects in preparation for aikido than others.

Of course it depends on which style of aikido you're drawn to, and which teacher, and so forth. And of course if you study judo, someone will say that we have to undo all of that muscling and readjust your ma-ai; if you study gjj, we have to undo your tendencies to go to the ground; if you study drajj, we may have to correct your spiritual perspective; if you study karate, we have to undo your hard blocks in favor of soft parries; ...

It is what it is.

Quote:
I agree that eventually it is all aikido if you are doing it with aiki as aikido is simply a structured methodology or pedagogy that encourages the development of aiki if you are training it correctly.
What is correct? That's another story. Is structured methodology or pedagogy correct? Maybe for some, not for others. Who knows? I put on a white belt and show up here or there; guaranteed, someone there will tell me I'm all wrong!

Fortunately, aikido itself has many entrances and paths within itself to take you to the right place---wherever that is

Last edited by Joe McParland : 10-08-2008 at 05:27 PM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 05:36 PM   #18
Joe McParland
 
Joe McParland's Avatar
Dojo: Sword Mountain Aikido & Zen
Location: Baltimore, MD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 309
United_States
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Whoops! Misread Kevin's "do" as a "don't" - sorry!

I hope the rest of the post stands

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2008, 07:16 PM   #19
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Joe no problem, I am following you fine.

Joe wrote:

Quote:
Of course it depends on which style of aikido you're drawn to, and which teacher, and so forth. And of course if you study judo, someone will say that we have to undo all of that muscling and readjust your ma-ai; if you study gjj, we have to undo your tendencies to go to the ground; if you study drajj, we may have to correct your spiritual perspective; if you study karate, we have to undo your hard blocks in favor of soft parries; ...
Yes, I agree there are always "small" things you have to learn/re-learn differently. I am struggling with this in Judo right now as it relates to my 5 years experience in BJJ. They are minor though and I have found it fairly easy to adjust to the various dojos with no issues and have not found it confusing at all.

i.e. I don't "forget" and "pull guard" in Judo or in Aikido dojos. Some one simply had to tell me once that you can't do wrist locks in judo for me to understand to not do that.

Yes, it can be a challenge to see a opportunity and KNOW that it is there, or to find a person in a turtle and be slightly perplexed because they just sit there hunkered down in Judo, but I do find those things to be minor.

What is important, I think, is that at the core level what you are learning is essentially the same.

You "might" be successful in using speed and muscling in judo at the beginners level where all lis equal. Same with BJJ. However, at the core, good teachers are teaching you the same basic principles that you learn in aikido.

There is as much Kokyo in judo, or "tearing silk" when getting kuzushi when done correctly as there is in Aikido or CMAs.

They just may not verbalize it or focus on it in the same manner or order of priority.

At the core of kuzushi though, you will learn good balance and develop a good base to build on when you focus on these things in Aikido I think.

Joe wrote:

Quote:
What is correct? That's another story. Is structured methodology or pedagogy correct? Maybe for some, not for others. Who knows? I put on a white belt and show up here or there; guaranteed, someone there will tell me I'm all wrong
LOL...yes this is loaded and I was sort of chumming the waters

As you know, these is the big issue of the last couple of years, months, days on aikiweb.

I am training in aikido, judo, and jiujitsu these days...belts as you state are really irrelevant. I go to class and take whatever advice guidance and pointers I am giving and try to "shut up" and train. I am told I am wrong on a daily basis in all three in some small way.

I am okay with that though as it is okay to be "wrong". I have my own filter mechanisms and/or criteria that I process information/knowledge and make decisions. If I am wrong, I am wrong...if not in my mind, I say "thanks" and let it go.

I learn more in the end that way.

Is there a "right way" to do aikido. I don't think so. I do think there are some methods and people that are better than others in "Aiki".

As is discussed here on Aikiweb....I don't think you can really tell it until you've experienced both good and bad stuff. Having been exposed to some interesting folks in the past couple of years, I can say there are those out there that are "more right" than others...and it ain't based on the degree or status in aikido necessarily.

Good discussion and I hope this helps the OP.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 04:39 AM   #20
ThomasSchmidt
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Spain
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

I only can agree, very good discussion. I have to apologize, I'm not regularly in internet so it took me a while to answer.

Well, meanwhile I spent 3 days in Boxing and other 3 in Judo. Tomorrow I'll start to have a look at Jiu-Jutsu (I still don't know the style). In short: Boxing was more like playing to my strength while I found Judo asking for things I'm bad in. Both are physically quite exhausting - well, it's simply receiving the bill for years of smoking and not practicing some sports. Nevertheless, with both I had much fun. If anybody is interested in what the training was like I'll write more about.

Still I'm waiting to get into Jiu-Jitsu but the major drawback I already can see: it's only teached on Tuesday and Thursday. So I'd lose out 3 or 4 days per month due to my irregular working schedule. The trainer of Judo is also the trainer of Jiu-Jitsu and recommends all to combinate Jiu-Jitsu and Judo to have a faster progress in Jiu-Jitsu. mmm, don't know. That sounds a bit like the "FEJYDA"-Mix Alejandro wrote about. Thursday I can tell more.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 04:57 AM   #21
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,910
Spain
Offline
Re: No Aikido dojo - what now?? :(

Quote:
Thomas Schmidt wrote: View Post
The trainer of Judo is also the trainer of Jiu-Jitsu and recommends all to combinate Jiu-Jitsu and Judo to have a faster progress in Jiu-Jitsu. mmm, don't know. That sounds a bit like the "FEJYDA"-Mix Alejandro wrote about. Thursday I can tell more.
Hello Thomas,

Surely the Jiu-Jitsu the Judo coach is teaching is the rfejyda one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8ABXz4Qu_I

I practised it for a short time some years ago and like Alejandro said is a mix between basic karate, basic judo and basic aikido. It has both kata training and sparring.

You can have a lot of fun in JJ too, but if you physical condition is not still good I'd suggest to stick to one art and work progressively.

Welcome to Spain btw.

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza John Driscoll Columns 28 08-04-2013 05:01 PM
What exactly is an independent dojo? David Yap General 64 11-14-2011 02:05 PM
The continued Evolution of Aikido salim General 716 12-27-2008 10:00 PM
What Aikido is Not (IMHO) SeiserL Columns 17 12-24-2007 02:23 PM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 11:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:50 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate