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Old 02-12-2002, 06:29 AM   #26
Ghost Fox
Dojo: Jikishinkan Dojo
Location: New York City (Brooklyn)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 219
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mares


However, trying to be 'the best you can be' is a more productive and noble pursuit.
I think I can do a lot better than that. When I can wrestle with angels and strike awe into the hearts of the gods and fear into the hearts of daemons maybe I will be good enough.

There can be only one.
Connor MacLeod
Highlander
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Old 02-12-2002, 07:24 AM   #27
Ghost Fox
Dojo: Jikishinkan Dojo
Location: New York City (Brooklyn)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 219
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thalib

Now I see what you mean by differing between an Aikidoka and a martial artist.
I see most of the aikidokas leave the mat and forget all that they have learned. It is amazing to go into a changing room with other aikidokas. Some of the technically strongest, more radiant aikidokas almost shrink when they are off the mat. Their posture slumps, there ki becomes withdrawn, they become confrontational with others.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying go out into the world and strike someone down if they don't get out of your path like the samurai of old. I am saying be humble but strong.

I've lived on the mean streets of Brooklyn almost all my life. I'm not a big dog, not by a longshot. I don't go around stompin' on other people. I keep my head down and try to live my life in a peaceful and helpful way. But I carry my aikido on the street, and people sense it. The sense my Zanshin, my awareness. They sense my martial intent. They know I'm a lion not a sheep. I have nothing to prove I keep walking and they let me pass. Unfortunately most victims of violent crimes carry themselves like victims.

Most aikidokas off the mat don't carry themselves like martial artist.

Quote:


Your analogy of the lion as a "martial animal" interests me. But it is still an animal nonetheless. We humans are blessed/cursed with strong emotions. It is our strongest yet it is our weakest.
Well, I personally think that 95% of the people in this world are no better than human animals (Myself included, although I'm raging against the dying of the light). A human being is a right you earn by years of constant struggle and dedication to becoming a human being. A child when it is born has infinite potential, but it is initially just an animal or should I say acting solely out of the animal (animus/anima) part of its spirit. It is by being in a healthy and safe societal structure that it learns to embrace its higher spiritual faculties (Intellect, Love, Mercy, Justice, Balance, etc…).

Animals have emotions (feelings); they care about their masters, the members of their packs. They feel sadness when someone close to them die, and anger at someone who hurts one of their own. Emotions are nothing but a combination of biochemical and psychic responses to a situation, an impulse a force.

A human being on the other hand has to option to exercise "free will". They can decide to act from their baser instincts (R-complex in the brain) or from the divine shard (soul). They can decide to do what's right. For the most part people don't exercise free will, what they do is rationalize desires/emotions.

Unfortunately in the "modern/civilized" world (and I use the term very loosely) we live in a society where the consumer is king. Were we are bombarded with an endless stream of mass media hype. We are taught to embrace/channel our wants into mass consumption, keeping up with Mr. Ms. Jones. Spiritual and personal development is almost nonexistent. What matter is producing better citizens (by that I mean better consumers), new cogs for the ever expansive machine (Coming to an "underdeveloped" country near you, to destroy your happy and yet "wrong" way of life.)

(Okay Mr. Lost lets step of the soapbox slowly and quietly and we can give you a nice new jacket and show you to your new padded room.)


Quote:

Warriors and heroes? I know my heart cries out, but my body lays still.
Amen



Peace and blessings.
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Old 02-12-2002, 09:03 AM   #28
Thalib
 
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Dojo: 合気研究会
Location: Jakarta Selatan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 504
Indonesia
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I see...

Maybe it would be better to ask the question, "Do you practice Aikido in daily life?" (not just on the mat).

For me, that answer would be, "I'm starting to."

Relaxing, keeping one point, keeping one mind and body, and extending Ki, in order to learn all of those, I have to try to practice it in daily life. But now, I have trouble on opening doors. I am some how never satisfied on how I open a door, any door, I always feel that it is the hardest keeping all of the above.

Now, I pay attention on how I stand and walk, how I sit, even when I pick up a glass to drink. I'm not at the level at being able to keep those principles while asleep yet.
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Old 02-12-2002, 11:36 AM   #29
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
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Re: Again...

Quote:
Originally posted by Thalib
I will bleed for the protection of the ones I loved, and I will bleed for my honor and the honor of my family.
Not bleeding is good too.
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Old 02-13-2002, 03:29 AM   #30
JJF
 
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Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
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Denmark
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Hi Damion!
Great post. I can't help noticing your description of walking down the road and showing your martial intent. What I've been discussing with my sensei is the ´good vibrations' one can eminate while walking down the street (please forgive if I'm sounding too 'californish' here ). I agree that the first thing that creates a victim is looking like a victim, but instead of looking like a lion, I would prefer to look like perhaps a kind elephant (I'm around 185 pounds anyway ). Maybe we talk about the same thing but what I'm getting at is, that if your radiance gives the impression of a warrior with a mighty power kept under a lid, then you create nothing good - just fear or unease. If you on the other hand give the impression of being a happy, ballanced well ajusted (sp.) person/creature that smiles to the world, then you can perhpaps create a good feeling of harmony in the world surrounding you.

So while I basically agree with you, I believe there is a significant difference between creating fear and respect, but maybe It's just me. Maybe it's just because I come from a small country, where we have very little random violence compared to what I believe you have in Brooklyn,

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 02-13-2002, 05:54 AM   #31
Ghost Fox
Dojo: Jikishinkan Dojo
Location: New York City (Brooklyn)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 219
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Re: Re: Again...

Quote:
Originally posted by shihonage


Not bleeding is good too.
But the Gods of Aikido and the spirit of the mat needs an offering of blood from time to time to remain strong and appeased.

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Old 02-13-2002, 06:38 AM   #32
Ghost Fox
Dojo: Jikishinkan Dojo
Location: New York City (Brooklyn)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 219
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Quote:
Originally posted by JJF
Hi Damion!
Great post. I can't help noticing your description of walking down the road and showing your martial intent. What I've been discussing with my sensei is the ´good vibrations' one can eminate while walking down the street (please forgive if I'm sounding too 'californish' here ). I agree that the first thing that creates a victim is looking like a victim, but instead of looking like a lion, I would prefer to look like perhaps a kind elephant (I'm around 185 pounds anyway ). Maybe we talk about the same thing but what I'm getting at is, that if your radiance gives the impression of a warrior with a mighty power kept under a lid, then you create nothing good - just fear or unease. If you on the other hand give the impression of being a happy, ballanced well ajusted (sp.) person/creature that smiles to the world, then you can perhpaps create a good feeling of harmony in the world surrounding you.
,
My aikido side agrees with you completely. There are days where I try to radiate joyful energy, but my conditioning get the better of me.

Besides I prefer to think of myself as a force of nature rather than an animal. Like a flowing river, or better yet a flowing river of lava, fluid and all consuming.
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Old 02-13-2002, 06:39 AM   #33
Ghost Fox
Dojo: Jikishinkan Dojo
Location: New York City (Brooklyn)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 219
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Quote:
Originally posted by JJF
Hi Damion!
Great post. I can't help noticing your description of walking down the road and showing your martial intent. What I've been discussing with my sensei is the ´good vibrations' one can eminate while walking down the street (please forgive if I'm sounding too 'californish' here ). I agree that the first thing that creates a victim is looking like a victim, but instead of looking like a lion, I would prefer to look like perhaps a kind elephant (I'm around 185 pounds anyway ). Maybe we talk about the same thing but what I'm getting at is, that if your radiance gives the impression of a warrior with a mighty power kept under a lid, then you create nothing good - just fear or unease. If you on the other hand give the impression of being a happy, ballanced well ajusted (sp.) person/creature that smiles to the world, then you can perhpaps create a good feeling of harmony in the world surrounding you.
,
My aikido side agrees with you completely. There are days where I try to radiate joyful energy, but my conditioning get the better of me.

Besides I prefer to think of myself as a force of nature rather than an animal. Like a flowing river, or better yet a flowing river of lava, fluid and all consuming.


One does not beg the sun for mercy.
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Old 02-24-2002, 09:45 PM   #34
MaylandL
Location: Western Australia
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 241
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Hello Ghost Fox

Interesting Thread that you raised. We had a visiting aikidoka to our dojo. He was very experienced, knowledgeable and trained having done aikido for over 25 years.

Over a cup of tea after the training session he commented that aikido was not amartial art in the sense of what the Samuria learned. There is a lot within Bushido that is not covered by aikido such as archery, horse riding and spear. He said what aikido does teach is commitment, spirit and honour. That got me thinking about what aikido was to me and what I really wanted to get out of aikido. I'm afraid that the jury's still out on that one.

There's a lot in aikido besides that martial bits but I think its all interrelated. I not sure that you can practice aikido without principles, philosophies and mental attitudes inherent in aikido.

I also agree wholeheartedly with Chuck. If you are a not trained to properly receive a technique with proper intent, then you can be seriously injured.

Techniques (whether in training or in a self defence situation) need proper intent and control. I guess that's the art part of it and distinguishes it from thuggery. The law, our own sense of compassion and morality will have a part to play too. I dont presume to know the mind of O Sensei, but from what I have read he was deeply and profoundly affected by his experiences and the development of aikido was shaped by these experiences.

I dont think that I will ever get a good understanding of aikido but its sure fun trying

Mayland
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Old 07-20-2006, 03:58 AM   #35
Lee Mulgrew
Dojo: Dynamic Aikido Noquet Hartlepool England
Location: Hartlepool
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 88
United Kingdom
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Re: Martial artist / Aikidoka

Quote:
Sid Dagore wrote:
Thats like saying, "Is tai chi a martial art"?
or "is someone who does tai chi a martial artist"?

The answer, generally, is a profound no, because some idiot got hold of it and got rid of every last drop of martial intent.

Thus, most tai chi "master"'s would get severly hurt in a fight.

All I can do is pray that aikido doesn't go the same way.

sid
I have trained in both yang style tai chi and chi kung under the same man, and trust me this guy would not get hurt in a fight (and he would not just push his opponent away). I can honestly say that I have never seen anyone as devestating or felt such power behind strikes/locks/throws as he had. The speed appeared slow but was so fast you did not know what had hit you (it's hard to describe accurately). this man was pushing 70 and could still take down a proffesional body builder who was a 2nd dan kickboxer and a blackbelt in karate (as well as a few other bits and bobs) with no effort almost as soon as he attacked! I saw it with my own eyes on more than one occasion (and said brute was not pulling any punches!).

However, I do agree that most practioners do not study the martial side of the art which is a shame as it is sooo much like akido in it's principles and philosophy.
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Old 08-02-2006, 10:42 PM   #36
Shannon Frye
Dojo: Aikido Fellowship of VA / Chesapeake Va
Location: Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 180
United_States
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Re: Martial artist / Aikidoka

Wow - this can be a rather loaded question, with any answer questioned by anyone for any reason. My hats off to anyone brave enough to post an opinionated response.

MARTIAL: Aikido can be taught, or learned, without the "martial intent", so I believe that YES, you can have an aikidoka that is not a martial artists. Aiki has so much more to offer than most other arts, that I think it can easily attract more than "martial" students.

Tai Chi: Without trying to split hairs here, ther eis tai chi, and then there is tai chi chaun. One isexercise, and the other is a fighting art.
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