Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-25-2008, 02:53 PM   #1
elizondo
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Offline
Need some help choosing some more books?

Hey guys,

So Im looking to buy a few more books tomorrow and wondering if you guys could help me out.

I want to buy a Morihei Ueshiba book or 2 and some other books. But finding it hard which ones.
Im not looking for any techniqual books, but more his philosophy, or any how to of his meditations or breathings.

here are some questions, if you guys could help.

1. What are the differences between his "Budo", "The Essence of Aikido" and "The Secret Teachings of Aikido". And where could I find some of O sensei's meditations, breathings and philosophy.

2. Also, I'm looking for any other Aikido books on those subjects, and also any basic kata (maybe not kata, but movements) books.

3. And if any one can recommend zen meditation, breathing books, it would be great.

Thanks guys
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2008, 05:36 PM   #2
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Quote:
Kourosh Ward wrote: View Post

1. What are the differences between his "Budo", "The Essence of Aikido" and "The Secret Teachings of Aikido". And where could I find some of O sensei's meditations, breathings and philosophy.
Hi Kourosh,

All three are great books. Budo is a kind of manual put together by students of M. Ueshiba with his permission and given to select few students as a kind of thank you. It was written before the war. The english version was translated by John Stevens. The Essence of Aikido was compliled by John Stevens and contains translations of talks and poetry by the founder and includes a lot of photos of him in action as well as his calligraphy. I have not read "Teachings" yet, but believe it is another translation, maybe someone else will comment on it.

Personally, I recommend John Stevens' "The Secrets of Aikido." In it, Prof. Stevens lays out the spiritual teachings and ideas of M. Ueshiba and explains them using examples of other cultures and people both in and out of Japan. As for breathing and the like, I also highly recommend John Stevens' dvd called "Misogi." The stuff is much more easy to learn visually. Of course, if you could attend a seminar that would be great, Prof. Stevens is very approachable.

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 12:29 AM   #3
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,455
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

O'Sensei only "wrote" two books, both well before WW2, and much of his philosophies and musings changed after that time.. "Budo" and "Budo Renshu" do have diligently-prepared English translations, but those are still interpretive. Much of what is written about his philosophies are in books authored by his progeny, Kisshomaru Ueshiba Doshu, and the present Doshu, Moriteru Ueshiba. Look for them. There is an English translation of Kisshomaru Doshu's biographical "A Life in Aikido" due out shortly (Amazon is taking pre-orders).

Also, anything by John Stevens will be thought-provoking, although the accuracy of his interpretation has been the subject of some discussion. But that could probably be said about anybody's writing on the subject. You may find "Enlightenment Through Aikido" by Sunadomari Sensei to be interesting. There is good material in many of Saotome Sensei's writings also.

Before you tie a ton of money up, try to get an up-front look at all this stuff at your library or bookstore.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 05:37 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,724
United_States
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Before you tie a ton of money up, try to get an up-front look at all this stuff at your library or bookstore.
The man knows what he speaks of and speaks wisdom.

IMHO, good books are personal preferences. Try to get a sneak and peek before your purchase.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 04:05 PM   #5
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,455
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
The man knows what he speaks of and speaks wisdom.
Naaah... Just a blind squirrel diggin' up a nut...

But, domo arrigato gozaimasu, just the same!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 02:52 PM   #6
elizondo
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Thanks guys, especailly crbateman and Charles.

Alot of help there, I'm going to be traveling soon, so I won't have a dvd on me. Is there any books for the breathing or meditations like Misogi?

A Life in Aikido, Invincible warrior, Enlightenment Through Aikido and The Secrets in Aikido sound good. Shame there aren't many of O sensei's own writing after world war 2. Or his teaching on breathing and meditations.

Thanks guys.

Any reviews for Teachings yet? None on Amazon or anywhere. Decided to go for that one, plus a couple of the ones I mentioned above. + something with breathing, meditations and also maybe a movement one for solo movements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 09:26 PM   #7
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,455
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

You can find a review of "Teachings" here. There is also a link within that review to yet another...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2008, 11:30 PM   #8
elizondo
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Thank you Clark. I see your username is different now.
I'm going to be ordering it this week.
Also another one I have found is training with the Master.

But do any of these books or any Aikido books have an instruction on meditation or breathing that O sensei did himself?
By saying this, I know Im not going to be superman by doing the same exercises, but interested to see what they were and how he did them.

Thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 12:43 AM   #9
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,455
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Quote:
Kourosh Ward wrote: View Post
Thank you Clark. I see your username is different now.
I'm going to be ordering it this week.
Also another one I have found is training with the Master.

But do any of these books or any Aikido books have an instruction on meditation or breathing that O sensei did himself?
By saying this, I know Im not going to be superman by doing the same exercises, but interested to see what they were and how he did them.

Thanks
Different username? Not to my knowledge...

As for any writings on O'Sensei's meditation and breathing, there is not much in the books I have (although I am somewhat limited, in that I only accumulate English-language material). O'Sensei was often very cryptic in his discussion of "inner" principles. So much so, that many of his most noted students often do not agree on exactly what he was talking about...

As far as Aikido notables, Koichi Tohei Sensei has far and away been the most prolific in writing about meditation and breathing.

One possibility you might also explore: Shodo (calligraphy) is deeply rooted in principles of breathing and meditation. If I were wanting to concentrate on improvement in these areas, I might look into further study of it. Could be interesting...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 12:57 AM   #10
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

The big problem is that Morihei Ueshiba did not write anything himself and there is some doubt that he even "taught" at least in the way that word is commonly used.

I see now that "Secret Teachings" is a translation of Aikido Shinzui which, I believe, is a collection of articles from Honbu Dojo's newspaper. I personally do not know how they were written, maybe John Stevens comments on this in the book?

I do know that a book called Takemusu Aiki was dictated by O'Sensei and then checked by him personally. It may be more accurate. A translation is on the aikidoonline web site.

The breathing/meditation is even more problematic. Many teachers teach various systems, but (at least in my opinion) no one can clearly trace them back directly to the founder. Okumura Sensei remarked that O'sensei was very open to students finding and using systems from other sources. O'sensei's way seems to have been kept private with him.

Morihei Ueshiba learned meditation from Onisaburo Deguchi of the Omoto Kyo and it is likely what he learned was at least a part of what he practiced daily for the rest of his life. However, at some point, Omoto Kyo had a problem with people killing themselves after practicing this meditation and suspended teaching it. Perhaps this was part of O'Sensei's reasoning behind not clearly teaching it, I don't know.

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 02:48 AM   #11
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote: View Post
I do know that a book called Takemusu Aiki was dictated by O'Sensei and then checked by him personally. It may be more accurate. A translation is on the aikidoonline web site.

Charles
I take it you mean the book edited by Hideo Takahashi. Can you be more specific about this? (1) As far as I know, the only translation is of some sections by Stanley Pranin; (2) I have checked the Aikido on Line website and Takemusu Aiki does not appear among the translated material.

Best wishes,

PAG

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 04:56 PM   #12
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Hi Professor,

"Aikido Online" was a mistake, the sections of translations are of course at Aikido Journal, sorry. I was thinking journal and somehow typed out online!

As for #2, I have a hard copy of an Aikido Journal with an interview with Mr. Takahashi in which he says that he travelled to Iwama about once a month and O'sensei dictated the book. If I remember correctly, he said that he was not allowed to record the talks and that made him nervous. He would bring what he had written down and O'sensei would look over it, making minor corrections. He does not say if O'sensei was aware or not that the final product would be a book. The sense he gives is that these were not speeches, public talks, instead that it was the two of them, O'sensei talking, Mr. Takahashi taking notes.

If you checked the aikidoonline site because of my post, sorry for the wild goose chase!

Professor,
Do you have further info on how Shinzui came about? I believe that I have read through your words as well as others that Arikawa Sensei was a big part of the newspaper section from which the book came. How accurately can we take it to reflect O'sensei's thought?

Thank you,
Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2008, 09:13 PM   #13
elizondo
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

wow alot of great info there. Thanks guys. Ill be reading that stuff and looking into it.

So strange on why ppl would kill themselves after practicing what Onisaburo Deguchi taught. I wonder why. I typed Onisaburo Deguchi teachings and i keep finding a book on shinto meditations, but nothing about Onisaburo Deguchi on it.

Shame alot of clear things weren't written down by Morihei Ueshiba.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 12:03 AM   #14
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote: View Post
As for #2, I have a hard copy of an Aikido Journal with an interview with Mr. Takahashi in which he says that he travelled to Iwama about once a month and O'sensei dictated the book. If I remember correctly, he said that he was not allowed to record the talks and that made him nervous. He would bring what he had written down and O'sensei would look over it, making minor corrections. He does not say if O'sensei was aware or not that the final product would be a book. The sense he gives is that these were not speeches, public talks, instead that it was the two of them, O'sensei talking, Mr. Takahashi taking notes.
PAG. This is not quite correct. In his afterward to the book, Mr Takahashi states that the pieces were articles to be published in the monthly Byakko magazine: O Sensei knew that they would be published.

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote: View Post
Professor,
Do you have further info on how Shinzui came about? I believe that I have read through your words as well as others that Arikawa Sensei was a big part of the newspaper section from which the book came. How accurately can we take it to reflect O'sensei's thought?

Thank you,
Charles
PAG. I think it is vary hard to judge. Arikawa Sensei was a devoted supporter of the Ueshiba family and especially of Kisshomaru Ueshiba. I have noticed one or two changes between the articles published in the Aikido Shimbun and the text of Aiki Shinzui. However these changes are far less than the very heavy editing that has taken place in the English text published by Kodansha. I have stated before that John Stevens must have had a difficult task: of producing a text that is fairly accurate, but readable by contemporary aikidoists who know nothing about Omoto or Japan's early myths.

PAG

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 04:36 AM   #15
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Hello Professor,
Thank you for your reply. I am not clear on what was not correct in my post. I pulled out my Aikido Journal and verified what i wrote. If it was about O'sensei knowing that a book would be published, there is nothing in the article about that. It does say that Mr. Takahashi received permission to publish the talks as articles.

Kourosh,

The idea is that these people were possessed by demons as a result of the practice. The purpose of these practices was to become a vessel for this and that diety. This was the same for M. Ueshiba.

Try this link for more information.

http://www.oomoto.or.jp/English/index-en.html

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 08:11 AM   #16
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote: View Post
Hello Professor,
Thank you for your reply. I am not clear on what was not correct in my post.
Charles
What caught my attention was the rather sharp contrast you seemed to draw between open lectures to the public and private conversations between O Sensei and Mr Takahashi. I think it was somewhere in between and, in any case, this did not make any difference to the content of the discourses. Because of his friendship with Masahisa Goi, O Sensei had a relationship with Byakko Shinkokai, of which Takahashi was also a member. So there was no problem about the discourses being made available to a wider public. In a similar way, O Sensei published articles for the Budo magazine of the Dai Nippon Budo Senyokai because of his close association with Onisaburo Deguchi--and he slanted the contents to match the inclinations of the audience.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 05:27 PM   #17
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Thank you Professor. If Kourosh wouldn't mind the thread drift, I have another question for you (or anyone else who might have an answer.) In the interview with Mr. Takahashi, he mentions "Meetings With Ueshiba Sensei" which were held once a month at Honbu Dojo. I have not heard about this from others. What was the format and conditions of these meetings? Or any other info people might have?

Charles
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 10:37 PM   #18
elizondo
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Offline
Re: Need some help choosing some more books?

Thanks for the link Charles.
Of course I dont mind, more to read and learn
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Searching for some obscure books... crbateman General 5 12-24-2006 02:26 PM
wanting to compare 2 books sparkythex General 5 10-15-2005 12:41 PM
Considering selling Saito books.... spinecracker Marketplace 4 12-17-2004 08:49 PM
"Traditional Aikido" books for sale genki Marketplace 0 04-02-2004 02:03 PM
books cuguacuarana General 2 03-15-2004 07:24 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:57 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate