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Old 09-26-2011, 01:52 AM   #26
gates
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Chris,
The thread is about diet , not evolutionary forces. I am happy to discuss but let's not derail this thread.
Keith

Enjoy the journey
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Old 09-26-2011, 05:44 AM   #27
Abasan
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Yes Janet, that's true. Everybody is unique and off the shelf dieting isn't going to help much. The most sensible approach would be to use good common sense and hope it hasn't been compromised by old wives tales.

Moderation is key.

Eating naturally is probably good too. I.e. Eating locally produced food stuff and according to seasons, the Indonesians tell me they eat healthier because they don't rely on the fridge as much as we do. Instead they buy fresh produce daily.

As for brown rice. Yeah well I eat that. Carbs are carbs...if you don't use them, prepare to get fat.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 09-26-2011, 06:18 AM   #28
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

I think it's been established (and it's definitely common sense) that elaborate diets such as the so-called Paleo diet, work well in the short term because, with their intense focus on the minutia of diet, they make people very much aware of eating. When you're paying close attention to eating, you're less likely to overeat, more likely to eat regularly, etc. That change alone encourages a tendency towards healthier weight and better health overall. Unfortunately, elaborate diets tend not to work long term because most people can't follow them for very long (although there are exceptions -- my boss is one).
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:21 AM   #29
Abasan
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

I don't really know if it only works in the short term, but a diet that basically allows you to eat as much as you want as long as it's meat, veg, seeds, nuts, tubers and fruits, has quite a decent variety for you to choose from. Eliminating carbs from wheat is the mainstay and they argue that for thousands and thousands of year, man lived as a hunter gatherer and we it would be more natural for us to eat like that. It is only fairly recently in the human timeline of existence that we actually increase our dependancy on grain.

I won't argue on on how agriculture created modern civilization nor would I argue that grain centric diet has been proven to be the main reason for increased obesity in America... But I would argue that modern grains (the same with modern meat farming) are producing food which is basically not as healthy as it could be for men. I see the modern grain as similar to the special food we stuff our cows with. Something to fatten em quickly.

Remember producing good food was expensive. And it was during the war that corn syrup made it's greates impact. A cheap food resource in terms of dollars per calory ratio.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:44 AM   #30
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Having reread chris's post... I think it's a valid point that was raised. Just becaue it's natural doesn't mean it's good.

The ying and yang view of things also get you to look at food sources from a bigger perspective. And through it's application, the search for balance.

But if you take an even greater step back..don't you wonder why there is such an abundance of variety of foodstuff in this world?

Imagine you lived in a world where there was only chicken for meat, bananas for fruit, spinach for veg and rice for carbs... Won't that be something.

The human body, theoretically doesn't need much to survive. Get all the vitamins and minerals in place and you'll live a fairly long and healthy life. Yet such variety exists.

Therefore I'd like to conclude that variety exists because men in himself is varied. One persons meat, another's poison... You could say.

In the end it boils down to us listening to our inner self to find the best food for our body.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:28 PM   #31
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
I don't really know if it only works in the short term, but a diet that basically allows you to eat as much as you want as long as it's meat, veg, seeds, nuts, tubers and fruits, has quite a decent variety for you to choose from. Eliminating carbs from wheat is the mainstay and they argue that for thousands and thousands of year, man lived as a hunter gatherer and we it would be more natural for us to eat like that. It is only fairly recently in the human timeline of existence that we actually increase our dependancy on grain.
But during all those hunter-gatherer years, people lived in a calorie-poor environment. They certainly weren't able to eat as much as they wanted, and they had to work very hard to get it. Certainly they didn't get it sitting at a desk.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:41 PM   #32
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

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Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post
Hello everyone.

Its been awhile since I've posted here but I hope everyone can still share their thoughts on this matter.

I've read somewhere that Osensei conducted misogi exercise periodically. If I remember correctly there was something like 12 different exercises. But the one that interests me is the fact that he changed his diet during this time. And that diet change is crucial to the cleansing.

It is said the diet turns his food intake into alkaline base. I am thought in chikung practice that most food are acid based. Alkaline base is good because its like anti cancer.

Unfortunately the article fails to mention the type of food osensei ate during his misogi training.

I was hoping if anyone here can enlighten me.

Thanks.
Hi Ahmad,
Here is something I found on Aikido Journal website, By Gakku Homma Sensei, the last Uchi Deshi of the founder in Iwama. It describes the founders spring time diet I hope you find this helpul. I will post the direct link fot the intire article at the bottom.

Founder's Springtime Menu Sample

Mochigayu (Rice congee with pounded sticky rice cake)
Four parts water to one part rice. Let rice soak overnight. Over a high heat bring to a boil, reduce heat, cover and cook slowly for about thirty minutes. Cut mochi rice cake into bite size pieces and add to congee while cooking. Add a pinch of salt to taste.

Nanohana (Rapeseed leaves), Horenso (Spinach), Shungiku (Early spring chrysanthemum leaves) Ohitashi (Boiled and chilled vegetables)
Choose one spring vegetable and pick fresh leaves. Bring two parts water to a boil and add a pinch of salt. Add vegetable leaves and boil about thirty seconds until the leaves change color. Rinse immediately in cold water and gently squeeze out excess water. Mix greens with shaved katsuobushi (dried bonito), and a few drops of soy sauce. Toss with chopsticks. Squeeze out gently any excess soy sauce and serve chilled.

Nanohana or Horenso no Goma Ae (Rapeseed leaves or spinach mixed with sesame miso)
Prepare vegetables as above. In a mortar and pestle grind together black sesame, miso paste and mirin (cooking sake) until sticky. Toss mixture and vegetables with chopsticks and serve chilled.

Nira no Shoga Ohitashi (Boiled and chilled Japanese leek with ginger)
Japanese leeks are completely different than American Leeks, but are available in most oriental markets. Prepare vegetable as above. In a mortar and pestle grind ginger and mix with a few drops of soy sauce. Toss with nira with chopsticks. Squeeze out any excess soy sauce and serve chilled.

Niratama (Japanese leek with egg)
In a saucepan add a small amount of water, katsuobushi, shiitake mushroom or niboshi (dried sardines). Bring to a boil and add nira. When nira reduces down, add a pinch of salt, and slowly add one beaten egg. When the egg is cooked through it is done. Tofu can be added as an option.

Shungiku Tofu Ae (Chrysanthemum leaves with tofu)
Wash chrysanthemum leaves thoroughly. Boil in four parts water for about thirty seconds until the leaves change to a strong green color. Rinse in cold water and squeeze out excess water. Cut in two inch lengths. Wrap a block of tofu in a cotton cloth and squeeze out all excess water. In a mortar and pestle, add tofu, miso, sugar and peanuts (peanuts optional). Grind to make a paste. Mix tofu mixture and shungiku with chopsticks and serve chilled.

Miso soup is usually served with every meal.
Nira, baby carrot leaves, daikon leaves, spinach, tofu, age (deep fried tofu), wakame (young kelp), and tororo (shaved kelp) are just some of the ingredients that can be added for a springtime taste.

Condiments for every meal
Small flat sake cups of black rice vinegar and sake as a dip for side dishes. Chilimen Jako (Dried baby eels, a crunchy source of calcium). Vegetable pickles.
Dishes for Special Occasions

Asazuki (Sweetened sticky rice)
Soak sticky rice and grind in a mortar and pestle until milky. In a saucepan boil slowly bring to a boil stirring constantly until sticky in consistency. Add rice vinegar and sugar to taste. Fold in mikan (Japanese tangerine) slices for color and taste.

Kamaboko Imo (Steamed salmon and potato fishcake)
Boil potatoes with the skin on. Wrap potato in a cloth and twist until the skin pops open. Peel away skin and discard.

Marinate salmon with equal amounts of salt and sugar for a few hours. Chop salmon with a cooking knife and grind lightly in a mortar. Mix with potato.

Grate Yamaimo (Japanese yam) in mortar and mix with potato and salmon. Add a small amount of flour.

Knead and form into ball. Steam until cooked through.

(This was a dish the Founder survived on in the early days pioneering in Hokkaido.)

This menu sample is not eaten all in one sitting. Each meal would have only one or two side dishes at the most. The side dish portions for the Founders meals were quite small, only a few spoonfuls. An entire meal would equal about one cup of food if measured together.

This sample menu is not made of exact recipes. In those days we did not use measuring cups or spoons so it is difficult to describe exact amounts. I still make some of these recipes today in my own restaurant. For home use, all of the ingredients are available today in Oriental markets here in the United States.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=114

Yours in Budo

Andy B
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:13 PM   #33
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

I remember aiki summer camps with this but they also had sake!
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:48 PM   #34
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Hi Mary,
I just wanted to weigh in on your comment here because I think this is a huge misconception. The paleo / primal diet is really not a "diet" per se. A diet is a short term solution to a long term problem. Eating paleo is much more a healthy lifestyle choice rather than a diet. And, as far as it being short term goes, evolutionary biology has established humans ate this way for well over 2 million years. Prior to the Argricultural Revolution 10,000 years ago, you had no choice. So, actually the current grain based diet a la the USDA food pyramid is the short term diet which does not work.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I think it's been established (and it's definitely common sense) that elaborate diets such as the so-called Paleo diet, work well in the short term because, with their intense focus on the minutia of diet, they make people very much aware of eating. When you're paying close attention to eating, you're less likely to overeat, more likely to eat regularly, etc. That change alone encourages a tendency towards healthier weight and better health overall. Unfortunately, elaborate diets tend not to work long term because most people can't follow them for very long (although there are exceptions -- my boss is one).

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Old 10-11-2011, 04:51 PM   #35
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Misogi and Diet

Shinto ritual and practices have the ability to effect the KI. KI is primal causer…everything is started by KI. The Great Universe is started by KI. Your mood, decisions and actions are initiated by Ki. Of course negative Ki exists but we can purify ourselves to sense Ki and to receive positive Ki. This is the teaching of Sarutahiko Okami, Kami of KI, positiveness, grounding and progress in harmony with divine Nature who along with his wife AmenoUzume no Mikoto, Kami of Arts, meditation and joy form the principal Kami of Tsubaki Okami Yashiro.

We create our world and influence fate through thoughts, words and actions. This is natural law. Misogi Harai, the genius of Shinto offers us the sacred technology to purify negative energies that can be stored in our physical bodies as well as or subconscious.

In the literal sense Misogi Harai refers to the practice of casting off impurities and sharpening our senses and our ability to respond to the Ki of Divine Nature by ritual bathing in a river, waterfall or sea.
In practice Misogi-gyo can refer to a variety of activities of purifying the body/ physiological structure, the heart/ emotional body, the environment, and the spirit/ astral body.

Purification of the physical body involves the literal washing away of external dirt as well as purifying the blood stream (alkalinizing/ yangizing) through diet.

This kind of adjusted eating has the effect of raising the vibrational level and increasing intuition..this kind of grain-based diet rich in seasonal fruits and vegetables was at one time called ‘gyo” and is comprised of the most yang elements of the yin world to centripetalize or yangize our bodies. This diet was popularized in modern times under the name of Macrobiotics by Mr. Yukikazu Sakurazawa (western name: George Oshawa).

Shinto teaches us: everything in Nature is born, matures and perishes---everything has a beginning and an end. To live and grow as the healthy child of Okami we digest well, we are sustained by divine cosmic vitality through the sacred act of eating.

Being alive and being present is easily seen by relation to food-- that which we receive from Divine Nature that directly connects us to the Sun, to the Seasons and to Daishizen no Meguri- the ceaseless movements of Divine Nature/ Kannagara.

It is important to realize that the two most important factors regarding a healthy relationship with the food that sustains our lives are 1) gratitude and 2) appreciation while avoiding extremes.

That being said to move towards a diet based on whole grains and seasonal fruits and vegetables while minimizing processed foods and stimulants would be helpful for almost everyone in general. For those wanting to build the health for themselves and or their families this is essential information. For those on a spiritual path the knowledge of how to refine one’s Ki and establish inner and outer harmony while increasing the ability to harmonize with the ceaseless flow of divine nature is a vital tool…and having access to knowledge how to use food as medicine in case of minor or major difficulties is also important in our current age.

Itadakimasu….All the trees and plants thrive and grow by receiving the blessings of divine solar energy. When we eat these sacred plants we receive the life sustaining cosmic vitality of Amaterasu Omikami. I will humble partake/receive………….
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:57 PM   #36
graham christian
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Hi Ahmad.
Interesting thread. I did a macrobiotic diet when young and bought some books on it then and from your early posts I agree that was probably more to do with so called 'misogi' diet or at least it's mainstay. I remember how one book pointed to the ancient chinese ways of medicine and thus it's all part of that field. All based on balancing yin and yang and knowing which foods were yin and which yang and to what degree and then to what your body needs in what proportions and why.

Quite a study for anyone interested and I may say I personally didn't go into it very deeply.

I got more interested in nutrition. Once again a matter of study and seeing how it applies and why and when etc. Also at the end it also comes down to recognising what your particular body requires nutritionally taking into account other factors like geneology, environment etc.

Then as you say it's down to recognising in yourself what it needs. It does tell you but do we listen to it?

Examples are all around us of this and fascinating to look at from an educated viewpoint be it in whichever field of health. For instance when pregnant women get cravings for certain foods. That is their body telling them, let's say from a nutritional point of view, that they need those nutrients found in that food. The cravings are also due to the woman being at those times definitely more in tune with their bodies and a baby demanding natural diet.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Hope you are getting healthier by the day.

Regards.G.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:00 PM   #37
graham christian
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Rev. Barrish.
Wow. That was great to read. Thank you.

Regards.G.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:11 PM   #38
MM
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

How many people who focused on the spiritual only and practiced misogi exercises have replicated Ueshiba's abilities?

One of Ueshiba's students provides a hint to the answer. Around 1952, Seiseki Abe says this about talking to Ueshiba,

"How did you ever learn such a wonderful budo", and he (Ueshiba) answered, "Through misogi." Now I had been doing misogi since 1941 and when I heard that Aikido came from misogi, suddenly "snap", the two came together. (Aiki News Issue 045)

Seiseki Abe had been doing misogi for quite awhile prior to meeting Ueshiba or training in aikido and Abe wasn't anywhere near Ueshiba's skills or abilities, nor did he even see misogi and aikido as being similar.

However, under Ueshiba's tutelage, Seiseki Abe continued to grow as a martial artist. It can be inferred from this that something that Ueshiba knew and had trained was the underlying basis for powering his misogi exercises.
It was *not* misogi that powered Ueshiba's skills.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:54 PM   #39
lbb
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Quote:
Jon Haas wrote: View Post
Hi Mary,
I just wanted to weigh in on your comment here because I think this is a huge misconception. The paleo / primal diet is really not a "diet" per se. A diet is a short term solution to a long term problem.
Short term, long term, diet, lifestyle, doesn't matter. The hunter-gatherers on whom the so-called "paleo" diet is ostensibly modeled lived in conditions of food scarcity and had to do hard physical labor for what they could get. If you hope to mimic what they ate (which you really can't, but never mind that), based on the idea that it was somehow healthy for them, you also need to eat the same quantities and live the same kind of life. And then die at 40.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:28 AM   #40
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Hard physical labor? The Hunter - Gatherers were referred to as the original affluent society! They had much more free time than we do today. Not to mention that "hard physical labor" kept them in awesome shape. Looking at the bone density and attachment points on HG bones show they were stronger, fitter, and healthier than us. Yes, life expectancy was around 40, but that is an average. Meaning many more people died due to injury and disease b/c of lack of modern medicine. That does not mean everyone died at 40. Not to mention, post-agricultural revolution, the life expectancy dropped! What does that tell you? Looking at life expectancy in the middle ages, it was 18!! I'd much rather take my chanced as an HG any day of the week.

Seriously, check out The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson or read The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. Both excellent books that are highly researched and interesting reads.
Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Short term, long term, diet, lifestyle, doesn't matter. The hunter-gatherers on whom the so-called "paleo" diet is ostensibly modeled lived in conditions of food scarcity and had to do hard physical labor for what they could get. If you hope to mimic what they ate (which you really can't, but never mind that), based on the idea that it was somehow healthy for them, you also need to eat the same quantities and live the same kind of life. And then die at 40.

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Old 10-12-2011, 12:23 PM   #41
Abasan
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Lawrence, Andrew and others... Thanks for the input especially the specific food stuff related to misogi.

I'm reminding myself of course what is common knowledge or common sense may not necessarily be true. Sometimes it's just bad science perpetuated ad nauseum that eventually everyone understands as truth.

Misogi to get aiki is not what we're after here. Fine fine, aiki is a grand old thing, well deserving it's numerous topics, now get out of here will ya?

A few things I've read since my last post I'm going to add here. You guys remember wiki leaks? Well, it's sort of winding down now... But it's left us a bunch of goodies to sieve through.

One of which of the whole GMO thingey. So to cut it short, GMO is bad for you. FDA warns against it but has long since been muffled from the powers that be. But then again, all of us knew that anyway.

Also, eat cooked broccoli with chili to activate it's vitamins. Well there you go... There's always something new to think about.

Finally I agree totally that you need to thankful for your food. Human beings need to appreciate things kore, because we have to be fair to ourselves.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:55 AM   #42
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Quote:
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Hard physical labor? The Hunter - Gatherers were referred to as the original affluent society! They had much more free time than we do today.
Really? Got a cite for that? They had abundant food, comparable to what someone today eating a so-called "paleo" diet would have available, and didn't have to work hard to get it? That defies all reason.

Quote:
Jon Haas wrote: View Post
Seriously, check out The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson or read The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. Both excellent books that are highly researched and interesting reads.
I don't think that has anything to do with the point I'm making. The validity of their diet or nutritional program or wankel rotary engine or whatever you want to call it is not at issue; it may be perfectly valid. But any diet whose quantities are best describe as "as much as I want" is not the diet of our ancestors.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:23 AM   #43
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Mary,

I never said that they always had abundant food and didn't have to work hard for it. That's silly.
We can sit here and nit pick each tiny little detail forever, but let's not get crazy. The point is that eating a diet of mainly proteins, fats, and veggies / fruit / nuts as carbs (which is pretty much exactly how our ancestors ate regardless of quantity available) is healthier than a grain based diet. You don't like calling it "paleo"? Then call it neo-paleo. Call it paleo-like. It really doesn't matter to me.
Also, just fyi, the "diet" does simulate times of scarcity through what is call Intermittent Fasting (IF). And, no it may not be exactly how long our ancestors went without food, but it does increase fat burning and do some really cool hormonal balancing things.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Really? Got a cite for that? They had abundant food, comparable to what someone today eating a so-called "paleo" diet would have available, and didn't have to work hard to get it? That defies all reason.

I don't think that has anything to do with the point I'm making. The validity of their diet or nutritional program or wankel rotary engine or whatever you want to call it is not at issue; it may be perfectly valid. But any diet whose quantities are best describe as "as much as I want" is not the diet of our ancestors.

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Old 10-13-2011, 08:30 AM   #44
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Damn the cheesecake... Damn damn damn.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:44 PM   #45
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

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Mary,

I never said that they always had abundant food and didn't have to work hard for it. That's silly.
Well, that's what seems to be the appeal for a lot of people who express casual interest in it (the belief that they can eat all the steaks they want), but I take your point. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are certain assumptions that have to be fulfilled in order for any diet to be healthy, and also, that eating this way is definitely not easy or cheap. In practical terms, it is complicated to eat unprocessed foods. I'm not at all sure I buy that it's healthier than a grain-based diet -- it's very easy to cherrypick bad examples from the type of diet you're trying to discredit while putting forth only the most virtuous examples of your own. I don't think that Wonder Bread is any more an accurate representation of a grain-based diet than "all the cheeseburgers you want" is an accurate representation of a paleo diet. Does the paleo diet even allow cheese?
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:42 AM   #46
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Hi Ahmad,
As someone who has lived with psoriasis for years i was keen to try anything to help clear it up. My partner found out about a method to help the condition through diet which basically consisted of alkalising (if that is a word?) the body which entails living the macrobiotic diet which i have been on for a couple of years now. The skin is definitely better for it but the most profound difference is within myself, better sleep patterns, calmer, better digestion, more energy etc. I have to say though if you really stick to it you become a major hassle to have over for dinner! We now mainly have people over to us as handing your potential host a huge list of ingrediant no no's does wear very thin.
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Old 10-16-2011, 07:15 PM   #47
Abasan
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

I'd be interested to see what's your diet like Matt...

Anyway...just to add more fuel to the fire. http://www.cracked.com/article_19433...eding-you.html

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Old 12-10-2011, 07:02 PM   #48
Andrea Curtis
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

I have been diagnosed with diabetes months ago. The main reason i guess was that i was heavily eating white rice almost every meal. Now i stopped eating it and switched to brown rice. But i don't eat it regularly as before.
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:49 PM   #49
Janet Rosen
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Quote:
Andrea Curtis wrote: View Post
I have been diagnosed with diabetes months ago. The main reason i guess was that i was heavily eating white rice almost every meal. Now i stopped eating it and switched to brown rice. But i don't eat it regularly as before.
Brown rice glycemic index is somewhat better than white rice but actually you'd be better off with pasta.
May I respectfully suggest you look at research on connection between animal fat and cellular resistance to insulin uptake? I had gained some weight and developed borderline blood sugars (HbA1c was 6.4. My doctor recommended I try a vegan, no concentrated sweets lifestyle involving no carb counting. I shed weight easily, eat my fill, and in under four months my HbA1c was 5.6. Spot checks of fasting and post prandial sugars show ongoing normal levels.

I understand this is not a way many people choose to live (many of the senior for whom I'm a community case management nurse are type two diabetics and not one has wanted to make major changes - and I have a strict no-nagging policy). But it certainly merits your attention and consideration.
Best of luck to you.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:10 AM   #50
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 813
Malaysia
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Re: Misogi - The diet part

Hmm, we're on brown rice at home... But on whites during office hours. I typically prefer soupy noodles myself. Have no idea why pasta would be better than rice, we are talking about wheat flour here aren't we?

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