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Old 08-05-2008, 10:56 PM   #26
Connor Haberland
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post

Not running is good except not "running" would mean I would not make it to work. Not an option. Did consider stopping and placing the bike between the beasts and I while spraying with ammonia but decided to ride on.
LOL. Use your bike as cover, and lay on suppressive fire with the ammonia.

I had a similar run in about two years back. I missed the bus to school, so my mom was going to drive me. I was walking up the steps to the van, and I hear barking. "Oh Crap." Next thing I know, Im running. The neighbor came out and called him off. The Funny thing was, My sister(rides the same bus) jumped in the Van and closed the door(that was an Oh crap moment too). No wonder I was running. I was thinking about it all day, and when I got home, my Dad told me not to run. Just stay Still. My natural reaction was to run. That's all that was on my mind. RUN. At least I left without a scratch. I think running from the dog prolonged the situation long enough for the owner to realize what was going on(Oh Yeah, they were outside at the time).

You're not the only one Rick. I realized I could've used my backpack to keep it at bay.

Connor

Connor Haberland, 1st dan.




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Old 08-11-2008, 10:42 AM   #27
deathlinenetworks
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Made me laughed. hahahaha.... and I am still laughing. irimi tenkan and kick them off. hahaha
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:46 AM   #28
Keith Larman
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Just fwiw, my wife and I raise, train and show dogs fwiw. My wife also works professionally as a trainer as a side-line.

The problem of dogs and bikes is a tough one. Mostly because it ain't your dog...

Remember that many breeds have a strong prey drive -- i.e., they like to chase things that are moving. So when you ride by or run like hell their little canine brain goes "COOL! Let's GOOOOOOO" and you're off to the races. A pretty common way to teach a recall (calling the dog to you) is to start by calling their name, giving the command, then turning and running away. You kick in their natural instinct to chase and once they come in close you give them a treat/praise/whatever. So when you're biking past or running by a dog it is at a minimum a big game. For more aggressive dogs it might kick in a true prey instinct -- i.e., must kill the thing running away.

Another aspect is what is called territorial aggression -- i.e., you've invaded their space. That's why dogs don't like the mailman, delivery people, etc. They hear/see them often enough to realize "that jerk keeps coming back and crossing into my territory! I must bit them...". Same happens if the dog sees you on the bike periodically. Not only are you fun to chase but you're an invader too.

Frankly the best "aiki" thing to do IMHO is to call the local animal control and file a complaint about a loose, aggressive dog. If not them try to police. That's the proactive thing to do. The owners are taking a huge risk at a major lawsuit if someone gets hurt -- imagine a little kid riding by on his bike? Aggressive dogs shouldn't be out in public. Simple as that. And owners have a responsibility to control their animals. I have a female australian shepherd who became very dog aggressive after our daughter was born. Some weird maternal thing kicked in and she decided any other dog near my wife or the kid must be a major threat. We tried to train it out of her but in the end we decided it was better to simply not let her get near other dogs. Safer.

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Old 08-11-2008, 11:52 AM   #29
Keith Larman
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Oh, forgot some other things...

Ammonia works well. Remember their sense of smell is virtually an order of magnitude more powerful. Shoot for their nose -- the eyes aren't your target. Any pepper spray works too although you're really upping the ante. Of course if the owners are stupid enough to let their dog run free, well, the dog is going to have to pay for their callousness.

And if a dog does chase you or makes any contact file a complaint immediately. And get treated -- dog bites can get really nasty infections. Cats are worse, but dog bites are bad enough. But file a complaint -- too many laws are being passed now controlling virtually every aspect of dog ownership mostly due to jerks who don't bother training/controlling/spaying/neutering their dogs. People like that shouldn't have dogs in the first place.

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Old 08-11-2008, 07:25 PM   #30
Ryokan
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Does the dog behave the same way if you get off your bike and walk past?
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:53 AM   #31
gdandscompserv
 
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Call me the dog whisperer

Pit bull now stops in his tracks at the mere sight of my spray bottle. Still comes charging out from the house to the road but stays just out of range of my spray. I still fire off some shots in the air behind me, happily marking my territory. Still consider dog to be a threat. Am going to order pepper spray. I'm thinking about designing some type of automated delivery mechanism for ammonia. I would like to have pressurized ammonia spray come out of between three and five different nozzles mounted on the frame of my bike. It would be alot more convenient to be able to spray ammonia at five different angles at the touch of a button. Anybody got any ideas?
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:45 AM   #32
phitruong
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

there is this thing called super soaker water gun. fill with ammonia or vinegar. strap a couple of super soaker on your bike. declare war on the dogs. or try this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yFUtJhUb7Q
it's morbid but kinda funny.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:38 PM   #33
Keith Gotschall
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

I would stick with the ammonia if it is working. Lots cheaper, and in case of accident you just smell clean.

I was in a department store when some knucklehead in sporting goods just had to "try" the pepper spray. The whole store was voluntarily evacuated as the "little squirt" of mace was distributed through the air conditioning vents. It didn't make anyone double over (that I saw) but you could hear a wave of coughing fits move through the store!

I would think a couple direct hits would make the dog learn who is boss. You da boss!

A buddy of mine who flies hunters and fishers into the Alaskan bush tells a hilarious story of some hikers from Seattle. His boss made the couple buy "bear repellent", one can each, because they weren't going to have a gun of any kind with them. They were heading for Grizzly country to take photos. Anyway, my friend drops them off, gives a last look down as he heads back to Anchorage and see what he thinks is the guy having a heart attack. Does some kind of emergency power glide up to them to render assistance, and finds out they thought bear spray worked like mosquito repellent. The guy had turned to his girlfriend and said "OK, you spray me first and then I will spray you" He turns around and wham, is on the ground rolling in agony! My buddy the pilot drags him into the lake and while shoving his head underwater repeatedly yells, "You spray it AT the bears, spray it AT the bears..."
Urban legend, possibly, but every time I doubt this guy he comes up with proof.... and a wilder story.

Best of luck, keep riding! Keith
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:23 PM   #34
Michael Hackett
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Ricky,

I have this image of you and your Rube Goldburg 007 Cycle with the pressurized system going down the road.....you set off the jets and find at least one has jiggled from road vibration and now strikes you fully in the eyes, while the others spray so strongly that you and your bicycle start spinning on at least two planes. All the while, the pitbull sits in his yard thinking "The fan belt would have been more fun, not as funny, but more fun!"

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:30 AM   #35
phitruong
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Re: Call me the dog whisperer

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Pit bull now stops in his tracks at the mere sight of my spray bottle. Still comes charging out from the house to the road but stays just out of range of my spray. I still fire off some shots in the air behind me, happily marking my territory. Still consider dog to be a threat. Am going to order pepper spray. I'm thinking about designing some type of automated delivery mechanism for ammonia. I would like to have pressurized ammonia spray come out of between three and five different nozzles mounted on the frame of my bike. It would be alot more convenient to be able to spray ammonia at five different angles at the touch of a button. Anybody got any ideas?
Ricky,
found the answer to your problem. check this out http://water-wheels.com/index.html
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:48 AM   #36
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Hi Ricky,
How are ya?

I've been thinking about this topic for the weeks that it is has been here. I waited to respond until something 'came to me'.
Well, here's what came to me.
Mental Framework:

You can't use aikido against anything. You have to use it with 'something'; be it dog, cat, boss, cheeky forum posters..., etc.

The description of your plight sounds like you're attemting Kaeshi-Waza against someone who out-ranks(skills) you in the dojo.
OLD DOG:NEW DOG
They've set up territory, they have determined all the rules which you don't yet know, and they are maintaining their 'status-quo' as big dog. Fight or flight might be our first line of response, but placing your mind in the position of Uke wil allow 2nd line responses to emerge. The dog is attemting to communicate one thing. You will hear the holes in his strategy when you relax your thoughts. You will be handed some gem of wisdom to deal with this situation in an aikido fashion if you really let yourself receive . Not the dogs bite, but the dogs intention.
Don't try to reverse it yet. Just go with the situation in your mind for a little while. You're going to come up with something that blows even your own mind. And then you'll be the 'nage whisperer'.

Good luck. I know it can get 'Ruff' out there.

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 08-19-2008 at 09:51 AM.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:58 AM   #37
Ketsan
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Recently moved to a location close enough to work to make riding a bicycle to work feasible.
Morning 1. Big dog chases me. Scares the crap outa me. Disengage foot from toe clip thinking I would kick him in the nose. Never came to that. Spent the rest of the day thinking about it.
Morning 2. Armed myself with a spray bottle, contents; ammonia. It's on now. Chemical warfare baby. Same dog. Sees me. I grab for my bottle, adrenaline pumping. Damn dog just looks at me and barks.
Morning 3. Still packin. First dog runs out. I spray. CRAP! Nozzle set to mist. Dog stays out of range. Whew, that wasn't bad. Failed to adjust nozzle as I thought I was home free. Then it happened! Five of 'em. Another house further down the road. I quickly fumbled for my spray bottle, and judged the large aggressive pit bull to be the most imminent threat. He was behind me and consequently downwind. Spraying madly he ran into a fine mist wall of amonia and stopped dead in his tracks. Other four dogs seemed to back off at that point. Looked up and noticed the dog owners on their porch casually watching this fine rural gladiator match. What I really wanted at that point is to hurt some irresponsible dog owners. Rode off thinking about the possibility of a confrontation with the stupid dog owners. Would I use aikido, or would I give em a fine blast of ammonia and ride off on my bicycle?
Does anyone know of an aikido technique or internal skill that works against dogs?
If aikido doesn't work against dogs, and ammonia or pepper spray is so effective against dogs and people, why the hell do I spend so much time on the mat?
Clearly you need vastly superior firepower...........................invest in a super soaker and/or a water mortar.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:04 AM   #38
Ketsan
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Re: Call me the dog whisperer

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Pit bull now stops in his tracks at the mere sight of my spray bottle. Still comes charging out from the house to the road but stays just out of range of my spray. I still fire off some shots in the air behind me, happily marking my territory. Still consider dog to be a threat. Am going to order pepper spray. I'm thinking about designing some type of automated delivery mechanism for ammonia. I would like to have pressurized ammonia spray come out of between three and five different nozzles mounted on the frame of my bike. It would be alot more convenient to be able to spray ammonia at five different angles at the touch of a button. Anybody got any ideas?
Water mortar. 1 balloon filled with ammonia launched at dog from a safe distance (8 meters).
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:17 AM   #39
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Call me the dog whisperer

Quote:
Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
Water mortar. 1 balloon filled with ammonia launched at dog from a safe distance (8 meters).
Dog biscuit from 4 meters.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:12 AM   #40
Ewan Wilson
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Ueshiba wrote:

" Do not look upon this world with fear and loathing. Bravely face whatever the gods offer."

Maybe you should eat the dog. Or you could just get the bus.
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:23 AM   #41
Mary Eastland
 
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Cool Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Hi Ricky,
How are ya?

I've been thinking about this topic for the weeks that it is has been here. I waited to respond until something 'came to me'.
Well, here's what came to me.
Mental Framework:

You can't use aikido against anything. You have to use it with 'something'; be it dog, cat, boss, cheeky forum posters..., etc.

The description of your plight sounds like you're attemting Kaeshi-Waza against someone who out-ranks(skills) you in the dojo.
OLD DOG:NEW DOG
They've set up territory, they have determined all the rules which you don't yet know, and they are maintaining their 'status-quo' as big dog. Fight or flight might be our first line of response, but placing your mind in the position of Uke wil allow 2nd line responses to emerge. The dog is attemting to communicate one thing. You will hear the holes in his strategy when you relax your thoughts. You will be handed some gem of wisdom to deal with this situation in an aikido fashion if you really let yourself receive . Not the dogs bite, but the dogs intention.
Don't try to reverse it yet. Just go with the situation in your mind for a little while. You're going to come up with something that blows even your own mind. And then you'll be the 'nage whisperer'.

Good luck. I know it can get 'Ruff' out there.
Brilliant...it is a lot like trying to talk about ideas on here....lol.

Doggies teach me so much about myself....more often I am fearful of the owners than the dogs...

I notice how I feel when I see big dogs. I can tell if they are dangerous or not by the how they carry themselves...it is something I have studied my whole life because I am terrified of some dogs.
Mary
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:24 PM   #42
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Brilliant...it is a lot like trying to talk about ideas on here....lol.

Doggies teach me so much about myself....more often I am fearful of the owners than the dogs...

I notice how I feel when I see big dogs. I can tell if they are dangerous or not by the how they carry themselves...it is something I have studied my whole life because I am terrified of some dogs.
Mary
Thanks.
I find people are infinitely more complicated than dogs and I'm pretty good at reading them. Fact is, people scare me more than dogs. They have a much larger capacity for delusion and get mad when you touch their ears.

More wag, less bark!,
Jen

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:23 PM   #43
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Thanks.
I find people are infinitely more complicated than dogs and I'm pretty good at reading them. Fact is, people scare me more than dogs.
I have no problem reading mr. pit bull; he wants to eat me!

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Fact is, people scare me more than dogs.
You obviously haven't met mr. pit bull.
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:31 PM   #44
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
I have no problem reading mr. pit bull; he wants to eat me!

You obviously haven't met mr. pit bull.
Yes, I have. He trains in almost every dojo I've been to.

Maybe the mr. pit bull you're meeting wants to eat, but not you.

Just trying to throw ya a bone here.

Keep workin' those pedals.

bye 4 now

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:46 PM   #45
Chicko Xerri
Dojo: Aikido Kenkyukai International Fudoshin dojo Australia.
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

When you begin to remove Aikido out from the confinds of Martial Arts you will be able to use Aikido in any situation. Aikido was never refered to as Martial Arts by Osensei. Kung fu, on the other hand can be used for fighting dogs. You can take on a dog form to meet the challange but dont loose the fight. They eat dogs in China.!

Last edited by Chicko Xerri : 08-19-2008 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:10 PM   #46
eyrie
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

I believe Chicko is referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Kung_Fu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9nQ9...eature=related

I think you pretty much screwed your chances of using Aikido in any form with Mr. Pit Bull now... Personally, I find that having a supply of Smacko's handy works really well.

Ignatius
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:08 PM   #47
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

kungfu is cool
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:13 PM   #48
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

So are Smacko's. Whatever they are.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:09 PM   #49
eyrie
 
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Sorry for the typo - it's Schmackos... as in dogs go wacko for Schmackos.

http://www.schmackos.com.au/

Ignatius
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:06 AM   #50
David Paul
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Re: Does aikido work against dogs?

Just bring some cookies and dont hurt the dog. Maybe it just wants to play with you.
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