Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Non-Aikido Martial Traditions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-15-2008, 01:58 PM   #1
TAnderson
Location: Arlington, VA
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
United_States
Offline
Chen Bing Clip

Nice clip of Chen Bing at a recent seminar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIc5N...eature=related

Tim Anderson
 
Old 08-15-2008, 10:21 PM   #2
Dan Austin
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 151
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Tim Anderson wrote: View Post
Nice clip of Chen Bing at a recent seminar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIc5N...eature=related

Tim Anderson
Wow. It says elsewhere that Chen Bing weighs 150 lbs, and he looks quite skinny in his other videos. The guy he's grappling with looks to be solidly over 200 lbs. Color me impressed.
 
Old 08-16-2008, 10:30 AM   #3
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Tim Anderson wrote: View Post
Nice clip of Chen Bing at a recent seminar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIc5N...eature=related

Tim Anderson
Very cool Thanks. Unlike most of these this one appears to demonstrate the real power of IMA.

William Hazen
 
Old 08-17-2008, 02:17 PM   #4
mjchip
Dojo: Aikido Jinsei Dojo
Location: Chelmsford, MA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 97
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

To say that I'm impressed would be an understatement. Wow.

Mark
 
Old 08-17-2008, 11:31 PM   #5
Hebrew Hammer
 
Hebrew Hammer's Avatar
Dojo: Lava Fitness (The Boxing Club)
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 74
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

I've watched it several times looking to 'see' where all that power came from...I might have to look into Tai Chi or some other Chinese Internal art...I've heard stories about this art but its quite different seeing it on film.

Stay Cut,

The Hebrew Hammer
 
Old 08-18-2008, 10:10 AM   #6
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Awesome

Alfonso Adriasola
 
Old 08-20-2008, 10:12 AM   #7
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Here's another one from the same seminar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NznIJGakGJw
Like Dan A. said-note the weight difference.
Although he was only demonstrating potentials (the grappler is moving like a stiff crash test dummy) the power displayed never-the-less speaks for itself. I am so glad to see him and guys like Joe Chen playing, in a manner that demonstrates "classical power" while speaking to a more modern active audience.
 
Old 08-21-2008, 09:03 AM   #8
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Why does Chen spend time manipulating his 'oppenent' before throwing him? (if that's what he's doing) Since the power is obviously there, why doesn't he just toss him upon contact?
 
Old 08-21-2008, 09:34 AM   #9
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Because for the most part throwing a grappler at first touch is by and large B.S.!
Wth a trained grappler; who is gong to move, adjust and change with every pulse he can feel or create himself-you grab whatcha can, when ya can. It can be fast, it can take some work. And I'd suggest never, ever assuming they are meat heads with flexed muscle.
Personally I think experienced Judo/jujutsu/wrestlers are the most underplayed MA'ers in the world. On any given day I'd put money on them against anyone.
I put the Chen clip #3 up is to show potentials. I think the kid looks good. I also thought the grappler wasn't doing much at all. If you go to you tube and look at push hands #1, and #2 you will se he was more or less doing the same thing over and over. In #3 he showed the set up and the throw. It's a demo, it ain't a fight..

Personally, I continue to separate the arguments ; MMA , and internal power as I did the former before the later, and remain a fan of both. I'm a broken record that way.
1. One side of me talks about internal power / aiki and that it is the best potential in the world in the martial arts. And it is thee single greatest advantage failing all else.
2. The other side of me would bet against an "internal art" up against a good MMA guy. As I said while it is a massive advantage, it can be overcome. One needs to be level headed about these things.

So why not marry the two?

Last edited by DH : 08-21-2008 at 09:48 AM.
 
Old 08-21-2008, 09:55 AM   #10
BK Barker
Location: WV
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Because for the most part throwing a grappler at first touch is by and large B.S.!
Wth a trained grappler; who is gong to move, adjust and change with every pulse he can feel or create himself-you grab whatcha can, when ya can. It can be fast, it can take some work. And I'd suggest never, ever assuming they are meat heads with flexed muscle.
Personally I think experienced Judo/jujutsu/wrestlers are the most underplayed MA'ers in the world. On any given day I'd put money on them against anyone.
I put the Chen clip #3 up is to show potentials. I think the kid looks good. I also thought the grappler wasn't doing much at all. If you go to you tube and look at push hands #1, and #2 you will se he was more or less doing the same thing over and over. In #3 he showed the set up and the throw. It's a demo, it ain't a fight..

Personally, I continue to separate the arguments ; MMA , and internal power as I did the former before the later, and remain a fan of both. I'm a broken record that way.
1. One side of me talks about internal power / aiki and that it is the best potential in the world in the martial arts. And it is thee single greatest advantage failing all else.
2. The other side of me would bet against an "internal art" up against a good MMA guy. As I said while it is a massive advantage, it can be overcome. One needs to be level headed about these things.

So why not marry the two?
I don't know why.... but I really like and agree with your posts Dan...

Officially Signed by.... "TiltRight"...
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:02 AM   #11
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Because for the most part throwing a grappler at first touch is by and large B.S.!
Wth a trained grappler; who is gong to move, adjust and change with every pulse he can feel or create himself-you grab whatcha can, when ya can. It can be fast, it can take some work. And I'd suggest never, ever assuming they are meat heads with flexed muscle.
Thanks for the response Dan. Usually you just ignore me.
I'm really trying to get a handle on the idea and potential of internal power, thus my many ignorant questions. Please be patient with me.
I was in my younger days a grappler and couldn't agree with you more concerning the difficulty in throwing a well trained grappler. I have however, been thrown quite speedily by other, more skilled grapplers. Almost upon contact. I don't know if it was by internal power or not. I'm guessing you would probably be able to toss me upon contact, hence my question. Are there those that you can toss upon contact and others that take longer to "feel' out?
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:05 AM   #12
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Brian Barker wrote: View Post
I don't know why.... but I really like and agree with your posts Dan...

Officially Signed by.... "TiltRight"...
Hey!!!
Well its hard to discuss two such deverse topics with both groups who think the other is less than. Sort of like trying to discuss it with a fellow with sticks, or knives, or swords for that matter.
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:15 AM   #13
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Thanks for the response Dan. Usually you just ignore me.
I'm really trying to get a handle on the idea and potential of internal power, thus my many ignorant questions. Please be patient with me.
I was in my younger days a grappler and couldn't agree with you more concerning the difficulty in throwing a well trained grappler. I have however, been thrown quite speedily by other, more skilled grapplers. Almost upon contact. I don't know if it was by internal power or not. I'm guessing you would probably be able to toss me upon contact, hence my question. Are there those that you can toss upon contact and others that take longer to "feel' out?
You've changed so I stopped ignoring you.
Grappling is grappling there are all types of skill levels and rules. Sure I throw allot of people with ease.So what? I just don't think much about it, as I know there are guys who are not going down easy-particularly a few of my own. Then you can start adding punching and kicking. Anyone can get tagged. on the other hand I have a 290 lb. guy who has trained with me for 15 years-very soft, very sensitive and explosive. You can try throwing him, doing push hands or try hitting him etc. ...I'll buy the popcorn.
I remain very level headed when it comes to discussing actual fighting with this type of power. Again, two very different topics. It's why I keep telling folks this training is best looked at to make "you, a better you" in what ever it is you choose to do.
On any other day I'll do wrist-grab, gi-grab, classic mokuroku pretzel logic, one step, waza with ya. I just don't like it much.
Aiki power is universal.

Last edited by DH : 08-21-2008 at 10:22 AM.
 
Old 08-21-2008, 10:42 AM   #14
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
You can try throwing him, doing push hands or try hitting him etc. ...I'll buy the popcorn.
Oh yay!
I get pummelled while you eat popcorn.
 
Old 08-22-2008, 03:21 PM   #15
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Here's another one from the same seminar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NznIJGakGJw
Like Dan A. said-note the weight difference.
Although he was only demonstrating potentials (the grappler is moving like a stiff crash test dummy) the power displayed never-the-less speaks for itself. I am so glad to see him and guys like Joe Chen playing, in a manner that demonstrates "classical power" while speaking to a more modern active audience.
I know technique means very little, but would anyone agree with me that the initial movement in this clip is soto kaiten? Soto-kaiten-ish?

Gambarimashyo!
 
Old 08-24-2008, 02:39 PM   #16
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

A bit of background on the grappler (attacker)-posted by his teacher on a ICMA forum. Again note it was still only a demo.

Quote:
all,
I see most are enjoying the clip. For those asking about the background of the attacker. He is my student for the past 6 years in Chen Taiji and has an extensive background prior to Taiji. He was 1st place winner in the PA wrestling championships for 2 years in a row and took 2nd in Nationals. He also won the PA sambo comp.One of his main wrestling teachers was Olympic Gold winner Dave Schultz (RIP). Since training with me, he has worked as an Imminent threat specialist and bodyguard for many notable people, including: Lennox Lewis, Chris Tucker, Sean (Diddy) Combs, Saudi Royal Family. Mike also has about 80 pounds on Chen, Bing.

During the workshop we had a couple pro MMA fighters join in training. BY day 2, two of the guys didn't show because we trained too hard for them, They said they could not walk from the soreness in the legs.One of the others started as a non-believer and by the end of the day was amazed that Taiji was so applicable. Chen, Bing spent 2 days covering conditioning and applications. Basically he showed how the Chen guys prepare for competition and condition themselves
 
Old 08-24-2008, 02:42 PM   #17
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

This is the same grappler playing with another Taiji guy-I think its Mike Martello -I'm not sure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cel1-hIO_dc


This is the guy's teacher- I mentioned above- also playing with Chen Bing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NznIJGakGJw

Last edited by DH : 08-24-2008 at 02:45 PM.
 
Old 08-24-2008, 04:00 PM   #18
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Wow, missed this thread last week when I was out of town. Very good stuff, this is what I have been looking for! Thanks.

 
Old 08-24-2008, 05:36 PM   #19
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

The Abe Sensei of Tai Chi???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUD...eature=related

William Hazen

Who me??? Devil's Advocate LOL
 
Old 08-24-2008, 05:48 PM   #20
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Here's another one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r59g...eature=related

After watching it you just may see some slight similarity between Aikido Practice and "Tui Shou". I enjoyed this clip very it was great to watch. We do something very similar called "sticky arms" ( I am not familiar with the Japanese Term) First with Nikkyo Then Ikkyo, Shomenuchi, and finally Kotegashi.

I still believe that very little separates us except our own bias.

William Hazen
 
Old 08-24-2008, 07:11 PM   #21
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,499
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
...some slight similarity between Aikido Practice and "Tui Shou". I enjoyed this clip very it was great to watch. We do something very similar called "sticky arms" ( I am not familiar with the Japanese Term) First with Nikkyo Then Ikkyo, Shomenuchi, and finally Kotegashi.

I still believe that very little seperates us except our own bias.
Way more than enough, unfortunately.

Since you probably will take benefit of it, and those committed to a tailspin bias will not, the "sticky" connection of this type is in shear. A point worth looking into for the open mind.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
 
Old 08-24-2008, 07:30 PM   #22
Josh Lerner
 
Josh Lerner's Avatar
Location: Renton, WA
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 80
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
This is the same grappler playing with another Taiji guy-I think its Mike Martello -I'm not sure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cel1-hIO_dc
Close, but wrong Michael. His name is Michael Rosario-Graycar.

http://www.taijiboxing.com/bio_and_lineage.htm

Josh
 
Old 08-25-2008, 06:34 AM   #23
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Way more than enough, unfortunately.

Since you probably will take benefit of it, and those committed to a tailspin bias will not, the "sticky" connection of this type is in shear. A point worth looking into for the open mind.
Well, for those of the open mind, can you *do* "sticky" connection? It's easy enough to be an Internet armchair master, but being able to *do* in the real world is the deciding factor. Can you *do* everything you define so easily from the computer screen?
 
Old 08-25-2008, 07:14 AM   #24
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Interesting, we see a thread where the person under discussion even has his name in the title, and you do what? You post some non-pertinent clip of someone else?

That's not devil's advocate, that's just a non-sequitor...

Any comments on the subject at hand?

I found the clip unusual because you see someone stepping up in a way must of us do not. Seminar or not, seeing free play application of the skills in question is quite refreshing. Especially with someone well trained in grappling.

Best,
Ron
Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
The Abe Sensei of Tai Chi???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUD...eature=related

William Hazen

Who me??? Devil's Advocate LOL

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
 
Old 08-25-2008, 08:27 AM   #25
tuturuhan
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 244
United_States
Offline
Re: Chen Bing Clip

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Interesting, we see a thread where the person under discussion even has his name in the title, and you do what? You post some non-pertinent clip of someone else?

That's not devil's advocate, that's just a non-sequitor...

Any comments on the subject at hand?

Ron
William's selection of Grandmaster Hyang shows a "compare and contrast".

Chen Beng is a "young man" with good foundation. But, obviously, he is using "external" more than "internal" energy. His use of "noise" and sound energy indicate a desire to impress his audience to what "they can relate to and understand".

In Hyang's tape we see the same "softness" as in "Mochida 10th dan Kendo, and in O"sensei. Pure sensitivity to energy and the direction of energy rather than external (muscular) energy.

The objective is to use the "sligtest" amount of energy to accomplish incredible results. It's not what you "see" it's what you don't see.

Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
 

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Master Chen Bing Taijiquan Seminar in San Diego gdandscompserv Events Listings: Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 2 02-20-2009 05:06 PM
Baseline skillset eyrie Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 1633 05-23-2008 01:35 PM
Does size matter... Adam Alexander General 45 02-02-2007 10:26 AM
A warning! Not the chen swords! samurai_kenshin Weapons 35 05-09-2005 07:57 PM
Any attack Video clip Mark Bilson General 24 08-09-2004 10:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:22 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate