Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-03-2008, 08:22 AM   #126
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

to me it is a question of Choice and skill. you choose to follow a path or a life to resolve violence, then you seek to gain knowledge and wisdom in order to increase your skill so that you can make more skillful choices.

Violence is violence, it exists....it is the choices we make in those circumstances which determines how it affects the greater good and if our actions are destructive or harmonizing.

gotta be careful when you start thinking in terms of duality.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2008, 07:30 PM   #127
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Atemi

Precisely... degree implies both choice and skill. Choosing one option over another is one thing. Having the skill to pull it off is another.

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2008, 10:02 PM   #128
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,447
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

I think I did not explain myself very well then, as my point is not coming across. For I would completely agree with William's position that Aikido is just a tool - and by extension, only Man, not his tools, can be non-violent. Yet, William, you seem to be contrasting what you are saying with what I am saying. So, I must have messed up somewhere in my explanation.

Ignatius, I'm not trying to play semantic games with you. I explained how I am using the terms/phrases - hoping you would just look to see what I mean vs. what the Latin means. And, again, I would agree with your position that all training environments are contrived/ritualistic facsimiles - yet, you are offering this position as a contrast as well. So, again, I must have messed up somewhere in trying to explain.

On the other hand, I would very much argue that the things you describe are a question of degree. They are totally different things, and the body/mind knows this quite well - though the intellect may wish it to be different. I don't want to assume anything regarding your experience with violence, but in my experience, folks that are truly exposed to violence, for real, would never confuse the games we play in Aikido with the violence they experienced as a victim or as the offender. In the end, I think we are talking about different things then. I chose to do that because the thing I am talking about, for me, is relevant to notions like "non-violent" Aikido and by extension then to striking and things like "measured violence," etc.

I'll try again later in the week then, when I have more time. If someone else can chime in and clear things up or ask some more pointed questions to help me clear my own ideas up, i'd greatly appreciate it.

please/thanks,
dmv

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2008, 10:48 PM   #129
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Atemi

David, I realize you're not playing semantics. It's just that I am having difficulty understanding what you're really trying to say.

I "sort of" have an idea, but I'm just not sure if you're referring to the "emotive value" of the sort of "violence" as experienced by victims or intended victims of violence, or the contrived practices (and therefore "not violent") in a dojo setting which is, by nature, artificial and usually devoid of emotive content.

FWIW, I think the emotive argument clouds the issue. Violence or the threat of violence is still violence. Violence devoid of any emotive content is still violence. As is striking, in any context.

BTW, we seem to be drifting off topic w.r.t. atemi....

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 01:18 AM   #130
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Atemi

Hey thread on atemi.. can't resist: If my point had been raised in any of the previous post, just consider it as revision.

Atemi as thought in aikido is a joke. But I would agree that atemi is an integral part of a aiki' jutsu' esque technique.

There are two reasons I can think of why aikido atemi is a joke, but it still work:

1) The practitioner has previous training in a pure striking art e.g., karate or boxing.

2) The practitioner is armed with practice weapon (tanto, bokken or jo). And using these tools, he/she is able to multiply the force to an effective level even the practitioner is not trained to hit with his/her fists.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 05:53 PM   #131
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,222
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote: View Post
Hey thread on atemi.. can't resist: If my point had been raised in any of the previous post, just consider it as revision.

Atemi as thought in aikido is a joke. But I would agree that atemi is an integral part of a aiki' jutsu' esque technique.
I wonder if David's remarks on people experiencing violence would apply here. I would imagine physical violence would give one the sense of the visceral intensity involved. Growing up wrestling and "slap" boxing with friends, not to mention having played some fairly physical sports, I've learned something about taking a hit and ignoring pain. I'd certainly like to think I can at least toss enough of a quick strike/atemi/whatever to let me suppress the structure of a slightly above (very slightly) average person.

Quote:
1) The practitioner has previous training in a pure striking art e.g., karate or boxing.

2) The practitioner is armed with practice weapon (tanto, bokken or jo). And using these tools, he/she is able to multiply the force to an effective level even the practitioner is not trained to hit with his/her fists.

Boon.
What about makiwara and the like? I mean, having a big stick to hit with always helps, but I'm not just thinking about how much power my sword generates when I train. I'm thinking about my hands, elbows, etc. In fact, to my thinking, the sword is just attached to whatever my body can produce. Basically, I practicing timing and "finesse" on the mat; hitting hard at home on the heavy bag. I make no claim at hitting hard, but I wouldn't call it a joke...and I've really only trained in Aikido.

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 06:13 PM   #132
gregg block
 
gregg block's Avatar
Location: bethlehem PA
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 127
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote: View Post
Hey thread on atemi.. can't resist: If my point had been raised in any of the previous post, just consider it as revision.

Atemi as thought in aikido is a joke. But I would agree that atemi is an integral part of a aiki' jutsu' esque technique.

There are two reasons I can think of why aikido atemi is a joke, but it still work:

1) The practitioner has previous training in a pure striking art e.g., karate or boxing.

2) The practitioner is armed with practice weapon (tanto, bokken or jo). And using these tools, he/she is able to multiply the force to an effective level even the practitioner is not trained to hit with his/her fists.

Boon.
what you say is true Aikido atemi is a joke.
1) practioners of pure striking arts e.g. Karate or boxing . know its a joke because they understanding striking
2) I love Aikido and it definately has value but it would be prudent to cross train at least a little to learn how to strike effectively.
3) IMHO
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2008, 12:46 AM   #133
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Quote:
Gregg Block wrote: View Post
what you say is true Aikido atemi is a joke.
Hmmmmm Greg...Using the Phrase True Aikido is it's own can of worms...

Shioda and Tomiki had True Aikido and so did Shoji Nishio and O'Sensei...and I can think of a dozen teachers that are pretty darn good too.

Those Atemi Waza looked pretty good to me last time I checked.

William Hazen
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2008, 01:08 PM   #134
gregg block
 
gregg block's Avatar
Location: bethlehem PA
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 127
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Hmmmmm Greg...Using the Phrase True Aikido is it's own can of worms...

Shioda and Tomiki had True Aikido and so did Shoji Nishio and O'Sensei...and I can think of a dozen teachers that are pretty darn good too.

Those Atemi Waza looked pretty good to me last time I checked.

William Hazen
I was just responding to the quote prior to mine and if you read it again you might see IMHO listed as # 3 . Opinions can be changed just havent found someone to change it yet. What seems good to one may not seem as good to another. It's relative and to some degree subjective

Also don't assume that my position that Aikido is not the best striking art means that I am of the opinion that it is not a good martial art. This couldnt be farther from the truth

You have obviously have experiences and views different from mine, I respect that.

I do have a lot of experiences of my own, most vastly in the striking arts so don't dismiss mine to quickly either

Last edited by gregg block : 08-05-2008 at 01:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2008, 03:25 PM   #135
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Quote:
Gregg Block wrote: View Post
I was just responding to the quote prior to mine and if you read it again you might see IMHO listed as # 3 . Opinions can be changed just havent found someone to change it yet. What seems good to one may not seem as good to another. It's relative and to some degree subjective

Also don't assume that my position that Aikido is not the best striking art means that I am of the opinion that it is not a good martial art. This couldnt be farther from the truth

You have obviously have experiences and views different from mine, I respect that.

I do have a lot of experiences of my own, most vastly in the striking arts so don't dismiss mine to quickly either
With all due respect Gregg I think you're reading in to my post a bit too much.
My post had nothing to do with questioning your experience... Just your use of the phrase "True Aikido"... For example if I decided to use the phrase "True Atemi" in my post... This thread would go on for another 30 pages.

William Hazen
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2008, 06:18 PM   #136
gregg block
 
gregg block's Avatar
Location: bethlehem PA
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 127
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
With all due respect Gregg I think you're reading in to my post a bit too much.
My post had nothing to do with questioning your experience... Just your use of the phrase "True Aikido"... For example if I decided to use the phrase "True Atemi" in my post... This thread would go on for another 30 pages.

William Hazen
I think the confusion came from my poor punctuation. ...true, Aikido...is what i ment not True Aikido. I never really felt like you were questioning my experience any more than I was questioning yours. Experience is a personal, subjective thing. nothing to question.
Thank you for your input, I do respect your opinion and enjoy the dialog.. regards
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 08:35 PM   #137
salim
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Quote:
Matthew Stevens wrote: View Post
I understand that Aikido is based more on throws, but I was wondering how striking fits into it.

I have looked through the wiki and the articles, but some of them seemed a bit...vague.

I matched some of the strikes and kicks from the articles up with the ones from the wiki and narrowed it down somewhat.

Some things I were wondering that I didn't see covered...in the names of the different attacks, are strikes generally knife hand strikes, striking with the same edge you'd use in a karate chop? Are thrusts always referring to punches?

On kicks, the two I saw on the wiki (front and roundhouse kick) were mid level (like striking the stomach or ribs). The article mentioned a sidekick, but doesn't give a level. My question here, are there various levels for sidekicks and roundhouse kicks, like there are in Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai?

Do the strikes in Aikido come from other Asian martial arts that I could use as a reference?

To clarify, my definition of a roundhouse kick (though in the style I trained in, we just called it a round kick) is like those used in Muay Thai: kind of like swinging the leg (sometimes turning around with it, but not always) around to kick, rather than raising the knee and snapping it sideways. We did ours on low, middle, and high levels, though we normally stuck with striking the legs and the ribs (low and mid respectively).

Thanks ahead of time, for the info.
Great videos clips to answer your questions. Real self defense Aikido.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7CKSFryR7I&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3nuhXZjL9g&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7CKS...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMHSH...eature=related

Last edited by salim : 08-08-2008 at 08:39 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 02:57 AM   #138
Stefan Stenudd
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Stefan Stenudd's Avatar
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 538
Sweden
Offline
Nothing is easy

The teacher in those videos is obviously competent, and I am sure that the solutions he shows work very well for him. A problem that is often forgotten in discussions about what kind of aikido "works" or not, is that any solution needs to be skillfully executed, and often details so small that others don't see them make all the difference in the world.

For example, about the above videos:
In the kaitennage solution a very exact timing and precision is needed both to avoid the initial strike, and to lead the arm so that uke actually bends down enough. And because of the initial block, some might try to do this technique without starting with an evasive taisabaki step.

In the technique that I would call kokyuho (mistakenly called sankyo in the video title, but given another name by the speaker), the atemi to the face must be in such an angle that it doesn't just hit the forehead, which is otherwise quite likely if the attacker has the lowered head angle that is common in boxing and other striking arts. And again, starting with the evasive taisabaki step is much more important than the blocking moves with the hands.

As for the last video, there are hundreds of ways that tori can get stuck in the arm lock position, unable to avoid a strike from uke's free arm, since both tori's arms are occupied. Also, the solution demands that the attack is a hit to the head and not lower, which is very difficult to ascertain in advance.

What I mean is that there are many different solutions, and they all demand precision, skill, and what-not, in order to be trustworthy. I have my own ideas about what "works" or not, but still I have found so many other solutions that work very well for those who know them well.
Although this is self-evident, it is often forgotten in discussions about aikido and self-defense.

Sorry for being slightly off topic.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Aikidostenudd
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 06:09 AM   #139
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Curious about video #4 (hiji otoshi). It seems a bit risky. What happens if uke bends their knees -as opposed to tilting their shoulders- and tries to strike with their elbow?

Is there a variation to deal with that?

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 09:15 AM   #140
salim
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
United_States
Offline
Re: Nothing is easy

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
The teacher in those videos is obviously competent, and I am sure that the solutions he shows work very well for him. A problem that is often forgotten in discussions about what kind of aikido "works" or not, is that any solution needs to be skillfully executed, and often details so small that others don't see them make all the difference in the world.

For example, about the above videos:
In the kaitennage solution a very exact timing and precision is needed both to avoid the initial strike, and to lead the arm so that uke actually bends down enough. And because of the initial block, some might try to do this technique without starting with an evasive taisabaki step.

In the technique that I would call kokyuho (mistakenly called sankyo in the video title, but given another name by the speaker), the atemi to the face must be in such an angle that it doesn't just hit the forehead, which is otherwise quite likely if the attacker has the lowered head angle that is common in boxing and other striking arts. And again, starting with the evasive taisabaki step is much more important than the blocking moves with the hands.

As for the last video, there are hundreds of ways that tori can get stuck in the arm lock position, unable to avoid a strike from uke's free arm, since both tori's arms are occupied. Also, the solution demands that the attack is a hit to the head and not lower, which is very difficult to ascertain in advance.

What I mean is that there are many different solutions, and they all demand precision, skill, and what-not, in order to be trustworthy. I have my own ideas about what "works" or not, but still I have found so many other solutions that work very well for those who know them well.
Although this is self-evident, it is often forgotten in discussions about aikido and self-defense.

Sorry for being slightly off topic.
I agree in part with what you said, several solutions for application of self defense (Aikido). The most impressive thing to me, was the practicality of the videos vs the many demonstrations we see on the Internet. The majority of the Aikido demonstrations we see on the Internet look great, but are not self defense worthy. At least there is some real self defense application in the practitioners videos. I applaud him for his effort. Really it's great to see something that has a half way chance of working.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 01:08 PM   #141
Stefan Stenudd
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Stefan Stenudd's Avatar
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 538
Sweden
Offline
Re: Nothing is easy

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Really it's great to see something that has a half way chance of working.
I was also impressed by the stringens of his applications.

Generally speaking, I have the impression that there are so many misconceptions of what "works" and what doesn't. Usually, people believe in what looks hard and strong, but the most competent ones give the impression of soft and almost weak, or at least effortless.

With atemi, for example, what causes the most effect is timing more than physical power, and precision rather than force.

The power of aikido is aiki, the blending of forces, and that is a greater power than it appears to be. It may look like fake, and in some cases it sure can be But when skillfully applied, it is much more efficient than "noisier" solutions.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Aikidostenudd
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 01:59 PM   #142
salim
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
United_States
Offline
Re: Nothing is easy

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
I was also impressed by the stringens of his applications.

Generally speaking, I have the impression that there are so many misconceptions of what "works" and what doesn't. Usually, people believe in what looks hard and strong, but the most competent ones give the impression of soft and almost weak, or at least effortless.

With atemi, for example, what causes the most effect is timing more than physical power, and precision rather than force.

The power of aikido is aiki, the blending of forces, and that is a greater power than it appears to be. It may look like fake, and in some cases it sure can be But when skillfully applied, it is much more efficient than "noisier" solutions.
Before I began the practice Aikido, I studied Burmese Bando for 5 years. Bando is the sister art to Muy Thai and the application is almost the same. We learned to kick and punch pretty proficiently. My Aikido sensei is a 4th dan. Too many times I was skeptical in the beginning of his Aikido in general. The demonstrations were simply that, demonstrations. When I applied a string of kicks and punches to him in a sparring situation, the techniques were different. I really wanted to test his ability. So I tired to make him feel the pain a little from my kicks and punches. I used full resistance and I weigh almost 200 lbs. He never applied his Aikido techniques the same way he demonstrated when we sparred. It was never soft either. I would have probably hurt him, if he had applied some soft Aikido technique or half hearted. He almost never could catch my hand exactly, it just didn't work that way. He almost always had to modify the technique, due to full resistance. Most of the techniques he applied were closer to what you saw in those videos. Definitely not soft.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 02:46 PM   #143
Stefan Stenudd
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Stefan Stenudd's Avatar
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 538
Sweden
Offline
Soft or fluent

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
I would have probably hurt him, if he had applied some soft Aikido technique or half hearted. He almost never could catch my hand exactly, it just didn't work that way. He almost always had to modify the technique, due to full resistance. Most of the techniques he applied were closer to what you saw in those videos. Definitely not soft.
Maybe we have slightly different ideas about what soft means here. Let's call it fluent instead, as contrary to rigid. I've had some forceful attacks to work with, through the years, and I find that what I mean by soft/fluent is the only thing that works. In a dynamic situation, where the attacker is not aware of what my response will be.

Of course, anyone can resist an ikkyo if they know that's what's coming. Still, that's often how people "test" aikido. They grab an arm with all their force, and resist a certain technique, taking it as proof that it doesn't work. Or they strike half-heartedly, awaiting the response in order to block it. Or they allow themselves to attack by any means, but don't allow the defender to do anything else than twist wrists - thereby ignoring atemi, for example.
That's not very interesting.

Not that it has anything to do with what you refer to. Just something that sometimes annoys me. When aikido is "tested" it is rarely done fairly.

In my humble opinion, if you have to change the techique significantly (not the speed and power of it, but the form) between gentle and rough attacks, then you need to change the way you do the technique in the first place.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Aikidostenudd
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 03:12 PM   #144
salim
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
United_States
Offline
Re: Soft or fluent

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
Maybe we have slightly different ideas about what soft means here. Let's call it fluent instead, as contrary to rigid. I've had some forceful attacks to work with, through the years, and I find that what I mean by soft/fluent is the only thing that works. In a dynamic situation, where the attacker is not aware of what my response will be.

Of course, anyone can resist an ikkyo if they know that's what's coming. Still, that's often how people "test" aikido. They grab an arm with all their force, and resist a certain technique, taking it as proof that it doesn't work. Or they strike half-heartedly, awaiting the response in order to block it. Or they allow themselves to attack by any means, but don't allow the defender to do anything else than twist wrists - thereby ignoring atemi, for example.
That's not very interesting.

Not that it has anything to do with what you refer to. Just something that sometimes annoys me. When aikido is "tested" it is rarely done fairly.

In my humble opinion, if you have to change the techique significantly (not the speed and power of it, but the form) between gentle and rough attacks, then you need to change the way you do the technique in the first place.
It was a fair test because I wasn't very familiar at the time with the various techniques in Aikido. I wasn't sure what would happen. I didn't know anything really about Aikido. I did know how to punch and kick. The realities of full resistance also caused him to modify appropriately the techniques. A similar example is given in the below clip. By the way, yes it's sparring, but the only thing here to convey is the realities of full resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVbS0xHCerw
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 04:28 PM   #145
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,402
United_States
Offline
Re: Atemi

Jason is an awesome teacher. His usage of atemi is awesome. And it takes balls to fight Gracie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN6PvPCrStI&NR=1

Rob
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 04:30 PM   #146
Stefan Stenudd
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Stefan Stenudd's Avatar
Dojo: Enighet Malmo Sweden
Location: Malmo
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 538
Sweden
Offline
Re: Soft or fluent

I'd call almost all of what he's doing judo.

And I say it again: I was not referring to what you and your aikido teacher were doing. Not having seen it, how could I? I made some general remarks about aikido.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Aikidostenudd
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 04:38 PM   #147
salim
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
United_States
Offline
Re: Soft or fluent

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
I'd call almost all of what he's doing judo.

And I say it again: I was not referring to what you and your aikido teacher were doing. Not having seen it, how could I? I made some general remarks about aikido.
Sure, it's Aiki techniques attempting to be used in a sparring situation. Real resistance is the focus here using Aiki techniques. I agree with you.

Here is another clip of some great guys who actually attempt to use Aikido against full resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Q8ShKpM1Q

Last edited by salim : 08-09-2008 at 04:51 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2008, 07:15 AM   #148
gregg block
 
gregg block's Avatar
Location: bethlehem PA
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 127
United_States
Offline
Re: Soft or fluent

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
Sure, it's Aiki techniques attempting to be used in a sparring situation. Real resistance is the focus here using Aiki techniques. I agree with you.

Here is another clip of some great guys who actually attempt to use Aikido against full resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Q8ShKpM1Q
not too great of a showing. Imagine if the guy actually knew how to box!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2008, 01:55 PM   #149
salim
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 370
United_States
Offline
Re: Soft or fluent

Quote:
Gregg Block wrote: View Post
not too great of a showing. Imagine if the guy actually knew how to box!!!
The main focus is to show full resistance. Most Aikido videos show demonstrations, which don't proof the effectiveness against full resistance. More Aikidoka need to show Aiki techniques against full resistance. These gentlemen in the video are part of the Shodokan organization, if my memory serves me correctly. I'm not sure if they have dans or not. Perhaps you can comment on the youtube video on how to make there techniques more effective. They are looking for constructive criticism and will respond to you quickly. They will make an Aikiboxing 4 soon. So please provide some imput on how to improve.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2008, 05:26 PM   #150
gregg block
 
gregg block's Avatar
Location: bethlehem PA
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 127
United_States
Offline
Re: Soft or fluent

Quote:
Salim Shaw wrote: View Post
The main focus is to show full resistance. Most Aikido videos show demonstrations, which don't proof the effectiveness against full resistance. More Aikidoka need to show Aiki techniques against full resistance. These gentlemen in the video are part of the Shodokan organization, if my memory serves me correctly. I'm not sure if they have dans or not. Perhaps you can comment on the youtube video on how to make there techniques more effective. They are looking for constructive criticism and will respond to you quickly. They will make an Aikiboxing 4 soon. So please provide some imput on how to improve.
my advice would be to try working with a trained boxer. I don't mean someone putting on gloves and throwing slow jabs and right crosses. I mean a for real bonified boxer, lightning punches, bobbing, weaving, fainting ect. This would prove to be a true test .A true boxer is a master of Atemi. I know the average joe on the street doesnt possess such skills but I would like to see if Aikido could hold its own with a bonifed boxer. In fact if anyone has U-tube footage of such I would love to see it
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Striking in your Aikido JamesC Training 41 06-09-2008 06:34 AM
Value of atemi DustinAcuff Techniques 67 06-08-2007 09:35 AM
Atemi, kuzushi and effectiveness L. Camejo Techniques 17 04-18-2004 11:35 AM
O Sensei starts "No Atemi" Aikido? tedehara Techniques 89 03-18-2004 09:28 AM
teaching effectiveness Hagen Seibert Techniques 28 05-03-2001 08:02 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:00 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate