Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2002, 10:00 PM   #1
nikonl
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 130
China
Offline
Hurting Someone Intentionally

I was wondering, about the current poll. Why are there people voting 'No'? Are they not concerned about their partners or do they have absolute trust in their partners?

Hope those who voted 'No' could reply...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 06:14 AM   #2
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
I voted no, and was suprised about the numbers of yeses!

I'm not worried about hurting someone during training because I take sensible action not to hurt them.

1. If they are new I make sure I do not do anything which they cannot safely fall or roll or even sit down out of.

2. I don't force on a technique if someone resists (I would rather change the technique).

3. the way I do my technique is in order not to hurt them (i.e. shiho-nage is taken down the length of their spine, rather than over an arm-bar, kote-gaeshi is taken in a direction just beyond their elbow rather than out to the side).

4. I try to make sure I'm not throwing an uke in the direction of someone else.

Injuries have happened, but they have been rare and it is hard to think they could have been avoided. Everything entails 'risk', its whether the risk is balanced by the benefit you get out of it.

If I worried about hurting people I would feel that would make things worse as my movements would be more erratic.

Ian
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 06:31 AM   #3
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
Offline
I voted 'no' and explained it in the thread designed to discuss it...just go there for the extended version. In short, voting 'yes' to me is saying you pay so little attention to your surroundings and your partner, or are so ego driven, that you take unnecessary risks with your partner. I was surprised by the number of yes votes. You should care about your partners, and because of that you don't fear hurting them because you avoid doing stupid, reckless things. Again, it's like saying you fear crashing when you drive your car. I certainly don't, but I guess a lot of others do. It may be that they read the question differently, or that they really are afraid...could be lots of reasons, I'm hoping they just read the word 'fear' in a different way--otherwise it would make me nervous to think that many folks on the mat felt that out of control.

How would you feel if, as you boarded a plane, your pilot announced 'Boy, today I'm really feeling afraid of crashing?'. Or your doctor handed you a prescription with a smile and the words 'You know, every time I treat you I fear I'm doing the wrong thing'.

Last edited by guest1234 : 02-21-2002 at 07:35 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 08:33 AM   #4
dc20
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
Offline
I voted "yes," but not to imply that I am out of control, etc. "Fear" or "worry" are actually not the words I would choose...more like, "concern." I practice aikido in part so I can remain in control and not hurt someone (partner included). So I practice, and take care not to hurt while practicing, so I practice some more, and take care not to hurt in practice...so circular, so aikido....
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 08:47 AM   #5
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
Offline
well, the word in the poll was 'afraid'...

it was not 'do you avoid hurting your partner' but 'have you ever been afraid...' two very different questions. That's why I was surprised so many people were afraid, as being afraid implies they are taking risks or cannot control those risks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 09:02 AM   #6
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
Offline
Now, one exception I think perhaps to my view that you can control the situation to remove the fear, is perhaps styles that involve competition, although I do not know if that would even be considered 'practice'. Since those of us in non-competition styles get told Aikido is too dangerous to have competition safely, and since I don't know what those competitions involve, that kind of practice may have too many uncontrollable risks that could lead to fear. But I would think it wouldn't be any more risky than randori.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 09:26 AM   #7
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,046
Japan
Offline
Interesting take Colleen.

Personally in competition I have needed to get over fear of being hurt far more than fear of hurting someone. That said I did vote that I was afraid of hurting someone and that was why I was so concerned, as is the dojo dogma, with safety. That all round concern makes the fear less intense than in competition. If the fear of causing damage was not there - safety would go out the window. Of course that fear is not the same as quaking in your boots sort of fear.

Quote:
Originally posted by ca
Now, one exception I think perhaps to my view that you can control the situation to remove the fear, is perhaps styles that involve competition, although I do not know if that would even be considered 'practice'. Since those of us in non-competition styles get told Aikido is too dangerous to have competition safely, and since I don't know what those competitions involve, that kind of practice may have too many uncontrollable risks that could lead to fear. But I would think it wouldn't be any more risky than randori.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 05:48 PM   #8
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
I voted yes, too. I think there's a semantic thing here. Ian said, "I voted no, and was suprised about the numbers of yeses! I'm not worried about hurting someone during training because I take sensible action not to hurt them." Me, too. But I interepreted such caution loosely as being afraid of hurting someone.

I train carefully, and I train with careful partners and people, myself included, still get hurt. I once asked a 200 pound nidan whom I felt comfortable training hard with, how he'd originally hurt an elbow he was favoring. He mentioned several priors and I was amazed to hear him mention an udekimi (? so called where I train now, sumi otoshi elsewhere) I'd applied in reversal on him.

At the time, I hadn't even realized I'd hurt him. I felt as if I'd been rabbit punched, and now slow down greatly when applying elbow throws on anyone. As I figure other techniques might yield a similar result, I tend to crank getting into position, and then lighten up on the actual throw. With all the injuries I have to dance around, I shudder at the thought of inflicting one on someone else.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2002, 08:01 PM   #9
ndiegel
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 28
Offline
I voted "Yes" because I care about the other person. Perhaps using the word "worry" in the poll wouldn't suit me best. In a sense though, I do worry, because I take the time to make sure that they don't get hurt.

Noah

"Expect Nothing, Be Ready For Anything"
-Samurai Battle Chant
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2002, 09:45 AM   #10
nikonl
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 130
China
Offline
Smile

Thank you everyone for their replies...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2002, 10:39 AM   #11
Sid
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 42
Offline
We were doing nikkyo once, and I decided I was going to do my best, so I kept one point, relaxed etc etc :P

Anyway, uke came in for a katate dori, and I just did nikkyo - apparently a heck of a lot hrder than was good for my uke, who was rather upset.

The thing was, it was completely unintentional - it just *happened*. So I suppose one can hurt someone else very easily, even with no intention to do so.

Sid
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2002, 10:14 AM   #12
ndiegel
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 28
Offline
Sid, I think he was hurt because you paid attention to your technique, instead of the uke. When we pay attention to the uke, only then can we fully appreciate the attack, and find the best possible solution for it.

Noah

"Expect Nothing, Be Ready For Anything"
-Samurai Battle Chant
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2002, 12:07 PM   #13
erikmenzel
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
erikmenzel's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidojo Leiderdorp
Location: Leiden
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 530
Netherlands
Offline
Exclamation

I voted yes.

To often a beginner is so wild and uncontrolled that they would probably already hurt themselfs without my help. Training with them is to say at least a challenge to my skill, my patiences and to my ability to judge their possibilities. Protecting them is hard work then.


Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
O sensei's temper and hurting others p00kiethebear General 17 11-20-2004 04:48 PM
Poll: Has anyone ever injured you seriously and intentionally in your aikido training? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 7 09-21-2003 01:58 AM
Poll: Have you ever intentionally injured someone seriously in your aikido training? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 11 09-11-2003 10:13 AM
Practice with hurting others.. Bruce Baker General 38 04-20-2002 08:12 PM
Poll: Have you ever been afraid of hurting someone unintentionally during aikido practice? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 17 03-17-2002 12:42 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate