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Old 06-24-2008, 12:48 PM   #26
SeiserL
 
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

IMHO, and I can certainly not talk about Aiki or internal strength, but the short road is the long road. If you want it, quit looking for short cuts and do the work. The road isn't necessarily about lengths of time but depth of intent and intensity.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:49 PM   #27
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Hi Shaun,

I would like to draw your attention to the bottom of a recent post of mine:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...ens#post209379

My opinion can be swayed.

Rob
Hi Rob,

I hadn't read that specific post of yours. However, I would have included you in on the group of people I would have said already understands the value of Misogi-no-Gyo. At least as far as how it relates to understanding O-Sensei's art without necessarily having any substantial instruction by Abe Sensei, or the like, or substantial shared practice with someone like myself or any of the other of his soto-deshi. I mean, I have no practical understanding of IMA, DRAJ, Anukai, or the like, but I can certainly see the benefit to putting in substantial efforts along any of those lines as a way of obtaining both specific and desired martial results. More than likely I will spend time in some or all of those areas in about ten years or so when I can focus on them in a sincere way that honors both the instructor I choose to study with and the art form which they represent. In any case, I have always been and still am more than willing to work with you or anyone else for that matter who chooses to contact me. I would gladly spend any amount of time someone might choose to dedicate - be that a day, a weekend or a life time, should they find me, my understanding and my way to be of any real value to their own path. I alway enjoy shainge what I have come to appreciate following my own path seeking to understand O-Sensei's Aikido. Different people will vibe well with different things. YMMV - but not being able to receive, process or understand something that comes our way does not, in itself invalidate the thing.

.

Last edited by Misogi-no-Gyo : 06-24-2008 at 12:53 PM.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:50 PM   #28
DH
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

Long or short road? Hmm.
Correct training, repetative training. obsession, thinking, innovation and sweat. It can't be forced it takes time-in. It is most certainly faster than just kata.
My wife still walks out of the bedroom at night to get a drink and makes fun of me sweating through some exercise or another in the living room. Or looking for me in the morning out back with a pole.
I always ask people "You want to know this stuff and do it eh?" "Hell ya!!" They say.
Then I ask
"How long did you train today?"
I never seem to get a good answer to that question.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:08 PM   #29
Lyle Bogin
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

The short road to ki will give you something you can only apply in a small and controlled world. To get the big picture, you have to bust your ass for eons like everyone else.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:57 PM   #30
rob_liberti
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

You know, "long road" vrs "short road" is not the best description, but it is not terrible either...

Assuming a person is at a point in their life when they can dedicate say 60 to 80 hours per week training. If they can do that on the aiki skills path - in a SHORT time they will have gotten a LOT farther than someone just as dedicated with just as much time into the akido path. The roads are the same length, it just how far you get in a shorter time... Which is why I would call it a "direct road" vrs an "indirect road" myself.

Rob
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:32 PM   #31
eyrie
 
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

I dunno... the distance between 2 points is a straight line... but roads aren't always straight... although there are usually many intersecting roads, highways and "shortcuts".

Sometimes a shortcut isn't always a shortcut... distance-wise it might be shorter, but traffic conditions may prohibit someone from getting there faster. Just as a highway may not always be the fastest way to get from point A to point B when traffic is bumper to bumper.

Sometimes you can change course (take a different path), but depending on traffic and road conditions (work/family/personal/life), changing course may not always be "better". It depends on what your goals are... and a lot of it also depends on opportunity and luck.

I hate travelling, and wish the day that personal teleportation devices would arrive. But occasionally I enjoy taking the scenic tour... and mostly you just have to be content with crawling behind a large semi (what life throws at you).

Ignatius
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:47 PM   #32
rob_liberti
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

There is a maze between the 2 points on one of the roads and no map for the maze is generally available.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:27 PM   #33
eyrie
 
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
There is a maze between the 2 points on one of the roads and no map for the maze is generally available.
That... I think is the REAL issue... not whether the road is longer or shorter.

Most people get the GPS version - turn left, straight ahead 100m, turn right etc. But, most people already know how to read a map, and if not, can be taught to do so in a matter of minutes. The difference is having a basic roadmap and a topographical map. And even with a topographical map, navigating and knowing the terrain and natural obstacles is not quite the same thing... unless you have a guide that is far more experienced than you.

Ignatius
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:51 AM   #34
rob_liberti
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

To torture the metaphor, another problem is that many people are so comfortable in the maze that they wouldn't change their current direction even if they SAW the cheese - AND - I truly believe that what they think is the cheese is just crumbs... People keep setting the bar so low and saying yo have to be realistic about what *you* can do. If the student cannot pass the teachers then the art dies. period.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:03 AM   #35
Aikibu
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

Brings up another taboo in Aikido....

Some folks are naturally far more physically talanted than others and they get "it" far better and far faster than the rest of us do...

Put that kind of talent together with a good "work ethic" and viola!

William Hazen
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:06 AM   #36
rob_liberti
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

I just posted about that myself on a different thread. great minds...

Anyway, I think some of the things I used to consider natural talent can be trained (for those of us who weren't born naturally wired to hold ourselves squarely over our center at all times - Michael Jordan comes to mind). Aiki...do is great for that.

Rob
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:36 PM   #37
Aiki1
 
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

In my experience, the time it takes to "get it" -- Ki in this case - (which is rare to begin with, generally speaking) depends on how sensitive a person is to the feeling and awareness of what they are trying to learn, and how much their personality etc. will allow them to trust it.

This implies that they have a teacher who is actually showing them what it is they should be feeling and doing in the first place, how to access it within themselves, and how it is applied to any situation, whatever the variables may be, which is a big part of "getting it" in the first place (meaning that if one understands it, inherent in the core of understanding is how it is applied anywhere.)

That being said, it certainly takes time no matter what, because the elements unfold as one goes - as one opens, experiences, integrates, and is lead to the next, deeper, level....

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:51 PM   #38
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Ki is a tool, not a goal

I certainly stress the importance of the ki perspective in aikido training. Still, I would not say that it should be regarded as a kind of goal for the training.
A Japanese teacher once told me that the name of the art should sort of be read backward. Kara-te-do would then be "the way by the hand to emptiness". Ai-ki-do would be something like "the way through ki to joining/harmony".
I like the idea.

I don't really understand the question about long or short road. Every way ( ) is a lifetime thing, and as far as I know there is no end to the progress one can make through continued practice. Neither with ki nor with anything else that can be gained through aikido training, there is a final level, a stage of development that is enough.
There is always more...

There are easy methods to sort of quickly awaken and increase one's ki, but they need to be repeated over a long period of time, in order to remain. I've written a book with such exercises, but I repeat on almost every page that they need to be done frequently over a long period of time, or the effect will quickly vanish.
That's not a bad thing at all. Repetition is the door to magic.

There's no point in getting tired of breathing.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:08 AM   #39
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Long road vs short road to ki power (aiki, internal strength...)

Take the shortest road possible, but accept that it might be longer than you think.

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