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Old 01-14-2002, 02:35 PM   #1
JohannesD
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Unhappy Fast blocking....

I watched a kung fu movies the other day.. I dont know the name, but anyway. They hit so fast and kick woth a tremendous speed, so my question is if u learn to do fast defence in Aikido. To block away many attacks and then do the propper aikido technique.. When u c Steven Seagal then he has that speed too.. But i have never seen any1 do aikido like that... So i wonder if the element of blocking is tought in Aikido or if i have tp do like Karate or Wing Chu(Or what its called..)
Plz help me out here... //Johannes

Follow your instinct..
Always trust it...
//Johannes Davidsson
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:52 PM   #2
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I dunno.

When a person comes at me with flurry of non-dedicated strikes, I

a) get hurt
b) go for a massive shomen uchi, which changes their attention to the incoming strike, and they put out their arm to block

In that order.

It happens very fast but I've been able to actually do a bastardized ikkyo at that point of contact, and, when its compromised (naturally), change into bastardized sankyo or even more bastardized ikkyo (with their arm straight and pointing into the sky, fingers bent) which causes the person to keep stumbling headfirst into the nearest couch / wall / table.

These are all mock fights of course.
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Old 01-14-2002, 05:51 PM   #3
Thalib
 
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No blocking...

Actually, there is no blocking in Aikido. Instead of the blocking, Aikido use the redirection of force and cutting the centerline of the attack.

Whe you see Take-sensei (Steven Seagal) uses atemi waza on movies, his blocking can't actually be called a block. He is "cutting" his enemy attacks even before the attacks reached its peak. It's basically like the "omotte" and "ura" version of a technique. Wether to cut-off the attack or to let it flow.

tabun ne ...
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Old 01-14-2002, 07:27 PM   #4
Mares
Location: Australia
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Re: No blocking...

Quote:
Originally posted by Thalib
Actually, there is no blocking in Aikido. Instead of the blocking, Aikido use the redirection of force and cutting the centerline of the attack.

Whe you see Take-sensei (Steven Seagal) uses atemi waza on movies, his blocking can't actually be called a block. He is "cutting" his enemy attacks even before the attacks reached its peak. It's basically like the "omotte" and "ura" version of a technique. Wether to cut-off the attack or to let it flow.

tabun ne ...
I dont' agree with that, to some extent. There is blocking in Aikido, but most of it is done by uke. I train in Iwama Ryu, so we do heaps of kihon/static techniques. Everytime nage/tori atemi's it is considered wise for uke to block. That usually consists of a hand in front of the fist. After years of doing that it all gets muscle learnt and can be quite a effective. Sensei has told stories of some of our students blocking punches from various other martial artists, and the only practise we get is from being uke.
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Old 01-14-2002, 07:44 PM   #5
Thalib
 
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uke blocking...

Since you put it that way shaw-san, through the persception of uke, then there is blocking in Aikido.

But as nage, doing Aikido techniques, would there be blocking? Or at least, is it considered as blocking?
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Old 01-14-2002, 09:17 PM   #6
guest1234
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Movies are not training films or seminar videos, so is it possible some of the blocking done so impressivley are choreographed mainly to impress movie-goers?
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Old 01-15-2002, 12:13 AM   #7
MaylandL
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Just be aware that some of the movies that you watch are in no way representative of reality and the action may be sped up at that point. I agree with previous posts that the action is designed to impress movie patrons.

However, in comment to you point about blocking attacks. Some forms of aikido do not block as such but primarily rely on evasion. Good centre/posture, movement and technique are the key fundamentals to aikido. Techniques will not be effective without these fundamentals. Keeping the appropriate distance is another important consideration.

One of the key teachings of aikido is to deal with multiple opponents. In this case, these aikido fundamentals will play an important part in dealing with the flurry of attacks.

Ultimately, you are using your skill and expertise against another's skill and expertise. If you are ever in a situation where you do have to fight, knock on wood that never happens, there is always the risk of getting hurt. My hope is that your skill as an aikidoka will stand you in good stead.

In the meantime keep practicing and hope you continue to enjoy your journey of discovery.

Mayland
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Old 01-15-2002, 01:21 AM   #8
Mares
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Re: uke blocking...

Quote:
Originally posted by Thalib
Since you put it that way shaw-san, through the persception of uke, then there is blocking in Aikido.

But as nage, doing Aikido techniques, would there be blocking? Or at least, is it considered as blocking?
As far as nage is concerned I do agree with you. The word blocking suggests a clash of forces which we are trying to avoid in aikido.
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Old 01-15-2002, 08:54 AM   #9
Abasan
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Most hard style martial arts would practice blocking along with parrying, evasion and such.

That is probably because it fits with their martial philosophy. However, as part of their curriculum, blocking techniques then gets practiced to death, thus resulting in very well conditioned limbs and reflexes.

Without those, your blocks may be less than effective, especially when going against strong attackers.

Not saying that aikido doesn't have blocks. Just not the blocks typical to that off hard martial arts, IMO. Why block though, when you can lead?

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 01-15-2002, 02:04 PM   #10
Johan Tibell
Dojo: Aikido Dojo Gamlestaden
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Not even the sword/staff moves use "blocks" in the sense that you receive the attack straight on except in a very few instances. But of course that depends on your definition of blocking. My definition of blocking is to try to stop an attack by putting something, preferably hard and durable, in the way without directing the attack in any direction.

I personaly don't think any martial art use head on block but the practioners rather try to move into a more preferable position before they receive the attack. Often closing the distance between uke and nage to lessen the power of the attack.

Regards,

Johan Tibell
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Old 01-15-2002, 05:16 PM   #11
CZR
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It is important to note that the definition of blocking is key to this discussion. What we would think of as "hard" styles rarely use the block referred to here, at least in the practical application. Rather, the intercept technique is considered more a parry or redirection. Often times the hands are placed in the "block" position to feel and redirect the incoming strike. Little defensive force is required for this. As the offensive technique is waved off, the distance is closed and the hand sensitivity will guide the follow-up position.

Not only choreographed, most movie scenes have combatants standing too far away from eachother for actual contact. The distance provides more than enough room for the arm-to-arm contact of flashy strike flourishes that would otherwise be ineffective. If someone charges in with such a flurry, simply close the gap with technique and see how many strikes they have time for... before they find the pavement that is.
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Old 01-15-2002, 08:35 PM   #12
Largo
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Blocking seems to be the single most misunderstood thing in hard martial arts (even by praticitioners). There's far more to it than just sticking your arm in the way at a 90 degree angle. If you do just that, then the techique you are trying to block will either slide past (watch a black belt doing a reverse punch to a lower belt), or you will break/ injure your own arm.
Blocking (at least in Shotokan, Goju-ryu, and muay thai) is more like deflecting. There is (or should be) a slight circular movement that deflects the blow to the side. Blocking (ideally) should be an insurance policy...if your movement is good enough, it shouldn't be necessary.
Now, all that being said and done, we still conditioned our arms and legs, and used a ton of power to make blocking more offensive. Also, it takes a loooong time to get over just slamming into whatever is coming at you.
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