Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2001, 12:08 PM   #1
Mike Haber
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 34
Offline
What Is Hikitsuchi Sensei's Aikido Like?

Anyone describe it? What are some of the unique things about it?

Etc.

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 10:58 PM   #2
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Dear Mike,

It seems you are new to Japanese MA, since this is the second thread that you start asking to evaluate ot describe the styles of high-ranking teachers. You might be interested to know that it is considered very unappropriate to comment on teachers' styles from lower ranking practionners. Even when higher ranking teachers have any comments, they will usually do it privately, not on a public forum like this one.

Regards,
Edward
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 11:31 PM   #3
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,084
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Edward
Dear Mike,

It seems you are new to Japanese MA, since this is the second thread that you start asking to evaluate ot describe the styles of high-ranking teachers. You might be interested to know that it is considered very unappropriate to comment on teachers' styles from lower ranking practionners. Even when higher ranking teachers have any comments, they will usually do it privately, not on a public forum like this one.

Regards,
Edward
I probably wouldn't do it to their face (well, I might, but it would depend), but I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a particular teacher's style. FWIW, I train in Japan and am the only non-Japanese at any of the dojo that I frequent. In spite of that, conversations about different teacher's styles are quite common, whether I bring them up or not .

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 11:52 PM   #4
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Li
I probably wouldn't do it to their face (well, I might, but it would depend), but I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a particular teacher's style.
Second that! Goes on all the time.

Of course, I'm a bit extreme at times.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 01:13 AM   #5
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Well, we all do it sometimes, some of us most of the time... But it still is not appropriate.

Whatever gossip said in our closed group at the dojo, stays in the group (usually), but this is a public forum.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 01:21 AM   #6
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
To make myself clearer, there is nothing wrong about telling anecdotes and personal experience with this or that sensei. This sends the message you want to convey in a subtle way.

You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 01:50 AM   #7
Tony Peters
Dojo: Mt Tantalus, Kaimuki Judo club
Location: Honolulu hawaii
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 67
Offline
Horsefeathers

Quote:
Originally posted by Edward
To make myself clearer, there is nothing wrong about telling anecdotes and personal experience with this or that sensei. This sends the message you want to convey in a subtle way.

You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.
While you are correct in that I cannot judge the effectiveness of a teacher Aikido (or any martial arts teacher) without feeling that which they teach I can comment on how it feels. I have taken Ukemi from enough Sensei to recognize the differences between them. As well as forming some opinions about their styles. Of course one would have to trust my POV but then asking a question on a BBS is like that. I have always found it rather amusing the etiquette that is applied to japanese MA that have little to do with japanses culture or the martial art

Peace
Tony
Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow
That's what makes my Thumper go
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 10:01 AM   #8
Mike Haber
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 34
Offline
Hey Ed?

First of all, you don't know squat about me so you can go to ....

Second off, what you said is a bunch of .... because these questions are asked by many aikidoka all over the web. Take your higher than thou attitute and ..... it.

Lastly, no one even answered the question. Everyone responded to this ...... stupid post.

Thanks

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 11:28 AM   #9
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,852
Offline
I haven't trained with Hikitsuchi sensei personally, but I have trained with folks who have trained at his dojo, some for over 15 years. As they say, you can usually tell how good an instructor a teacher is by his or her students...

What I've felt from folks who have trained with Hikitsuchi sensei are very dynamic, "big," and stable aikido. From stories that I've heard, training at Shingu is quite an experience!

I've seen some advertisements for video tapes of Hikitsuchi sensei but the only website link I have currently to one is here:

http://www.coolrain.com/www-coolrain-com/3.html

It also looks like Pacific Interface Inc (e-mail: aikido@pacific-interface.com) has a three video set of Hikitsuchi sensei called "The Essential Teachings of Aikido". You might want to contact them, too, if you're interested.

Hope that helps.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 01:10 PM   #10
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Edward
You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.
Everyone I know evaluates movies. No one I know makes them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 01:44 PM   #11
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 189
United_States
Offline
I'm in the same boat as Jun. But from my experience with his students and from Anno Sensei (I'm not sure if he'd be deshi or kohai to Hikitsuchi sensei, as he trained with OSensei when he was alive), it is a big Aikido, very dynamic, and emphasizing the rebound caused by an implied atemi.

And if you a fat boy, it'll cause you to cough up a lung.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 03:19 PM   #12
Mike Haber
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 34
Offline
Hey Mike?

Mike,

We have talked before but what does "it is a big Aikido, very dynamic, and emphasizing the rebound caused by an implied atemi" mean?

Thanks Mike

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 06:11 PM   #13
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,084
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Edward
To make myself clearer, there is nothing wrong about telling anecdotes and personal experience with this or that sensei. This sends the message you want to convey in a subtle way.

You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.
Hmm, my instructors (all Japanese) evaluate other teacher's styles all the time - both postiviely and negatively, without seeming to worry about humility. Myself, I have twenty years in, how long do you have to hang around before you can render an opinion? For that matter, even a first-timer walking off the street has to evaluate a teacher, otherwise how would they choose where to train?

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 10:14 PM   #14
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Re: Hey Ed?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Haber
First of all, you don't know squat about me so you can go to ....

Second off, what you said is a bunch of .... because these questions are asked by many aikidoka all over the web. Take your higher than thou attitute and ..... it.

Lastly, no one even answered the question. Everyone responded to this ...... stupid post.

Thanks
Dear Mike,

I just read your message now. You did not ask me any questions, so I am incapable of answering anyhow(in ref. to your other highly educative post on Dojo name thread). The problem is that the message is full of .... so it is very difficult for me to understand the meaning. Perhaps you would care to fill in the lacunes so that every body could read your opinion clearly?

Best regards,
Edward
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 10:16 PM   #15
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Just to avoid any misunderstandings, the .... in my above answer are not a substitute for any other word. You should read them as "points". Thanks.

Edward
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 10:47 PM   #16
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,852
Offline
It's kind of hard to describe what "big" feels like. I think it has the feeling that the technique totally envelopes you in its entirety, if that makes sense. Anyone else care to describe what Hikitsuchi sensei or his students feel like?

As far as the tone of some of the posts here (and in other threads), please follow the first Forum Rule (seen below the posting message text box) of "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect." Thank you.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2001, 10:53 PM   #17
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Erik


Everyone I know evaluates movies. No one I know makes them.
Hi Erik,

Evaluating movies is a good example. While we all evaluate movies between friends, I don't think we have the knowledge to be able to evaluate movies in a magazine or a newspaper for example. I said above that even though it is not appropriate, but we all do it, myself included. However, I have an idea that would appeal to all forum members.

Why don't we adopt the star rating system used for movies in order to rate our shihans and senseis. Even Aikiweb uses it for books and websites. Perhaps Jun would be interested in adding a new column called "sensei rating"? It doesn't have to be simple, we can rate separately several different aspects of sensei's style such as: speed, power, form, flow, viciousness, softness (or hardness), as well as personal liking (or disliking). That would be a very modern and authentic way of really knowing what is a sensei worth in the eyes of his students.
Do you all agree?

Best regards,
Edward
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2001, 12:07 AM   #18
JW
 
JW's Avatar
Location: San Francisco CA USA
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 510
Offline
It doesn't sound like the question was anything
REMOTELY like "was it a good movie" or
even "how good was the movie."
Sounds more like "what happens in the
movie" or "is that a comedy or science
fiction" or "is it in color or b/w."
There's nothing wrong with asking that,
come on.
--Jonathan Wong
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2001, 09:51 AM   #19
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 189
United_States
Offline
If discussing Aikido teachers in a public forum is inappropriate, a "star rating" system is, as a minimum, grotesque.

It would be inappropriate to be disrespectful of an acknowledged teacher, or to criticize their knowledge (it happens, but it's distasteful). To subject someone who has spent a lifetime to an art to a "thumbs up/thumbs down" rating system hurts my head.

To discuss aspects of a teachers art is only conversation. I'm pretty sure most, if not all of us, can manage to be respectful while discussing various Shihan and/or teachers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2001, 11:11 AM   #20
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Mikey
If discussing Aikido teachers in a public forum is inappropriate, a "star rating" system is, as a minimum, grotesque.
Mike,

I hope that you did notice that star rating suggestion was pure sarcasme. If not, perhaps you might want to read my previous posts regarding this subject.

Cheers,
Edward
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2001, 11:16 AM   #21
Mike Haber
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 34
Offline
Hey Ed?

Reread my post again. You know exactly what the .... means.

People like you probably get lots of posts like that.

Reread it and try again.

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2001, 11:32 AM   #22
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,852
Offline
Hi folks,

Please watch your tone on the public forums. If you feel the need to be rude, take it to private messages or private e-mail.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2001, 02:27 PM   #23
cguzik
Location: Tulsa, OK
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 166
Offline
"Big Aikido"

I don't have any direct experience training with Hikitsuchi Sensei, but I have worked with some of his students. One of them said of Anno Sensei, that he "paints the walls with his uke."

This could be contrasted to another one of my teachers, of whom it has been said that he "wipes the mat with his uke."

To me, the former has more of a component of leading out and around, and the latter leading in and down.

I would hesitate to use these stereotypes, though, because I think it has everything to do with the uke's attack and how uke responds to nage's lead. Either kind of spiral can readily become the other (as if they were ever different).

Chris Guzik
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2001, 04:30 PM   #24
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 813
Malaysia
Offline
...
Quote:
One of them said of Anno Sensei, that he "paints the walls with his uke."
This could be contrasted to another one of my teachers, of whom it has been said that he "wipes the mat with his uke."
I remember in Karate Kid, the sensei made 'Grasshopper' paint walls and wipe floors. Sounds like good sensei's are very much at home in Home Improvement as they are in the dojo!

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2002, 06:11 AM   #25
Tim Griffiths
Dojo: Nes Ziona Aikikai
Location: Suzhou, China
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 188
China
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Edward
You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.
Never let it be said I'm not
humble...

We have to judge sensei all the time.
We can't go to all the seminars or
classes we'd like, so we make choices,
based on our opinions of the sensei
involved. Maybe one can't evaluate
a teachers style well, in
which case people here would be glad
to correct the opinion , but we still
need to judge.

Of course, if I say "Usagiuma-sensei
is rubbish! His aikido's bad, he smells
bad, talks nonsense and his mother's
uglier than he is!" then that's a random
personal attack and probably inapproprite.
If I have valid concerns, I could
phrase it differently:

"I have a question. On a seminar with
Usagiuma-sensei I noticed his movements
were different to the basics that my
own sensei stresses, he eats when he
teaches (including the tatami) and
doesn't adhere to the Japanese norm
of personal hygene. Is this a
particular style of aikido, or is there
something I'm not understanding?
I'm new to aikido, I've spent about
36 hours on the mat (I was the last to
leave and got my foot stuck in a gap),
although I've spent most of my life
pig-wrestling (so its kind of the same
thing)."

Same question, different tone.

Normally, of course, I just issue a
challenge to the death. If they wimp
out then they're not worthy. If they
accept I give them Usagiuma's
address.

Tim
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why do some people hate Aikido? Guilty Spark General 609 12-29-2010 05:29 AM
Teaching Aikido to Children Workshop wmreed Seminars 2 09-06-2008 05:33 PM
What the hell? Chris Birke General 127 06-03-2006 09:41 AM
Article: Aikido Now in Brunei AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 3 09-20-2005 07:22 PM
Propostarganização do Aikido em Portugal kimusubi0 French 0 05-01-2004 03:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate