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Old 05-15-2008, 02:31 PM   #76
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
I would rather be judged by a jury of my peers than an ex-husband or partner who was trying to own me.
Mary
Put another way - better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Imho I believe that even in life or death self defence situations there are rules - they are called laws. If we do not obey them there is a cost.

We come across this dichotomy a lot in class when dealing specifically with the self defence question of excessive and unwarranted force. I usually make it clear to students where justifiable self defence stops and assault/murder begins (based on our legal system) during a conflict situation. There is often a recognizable point where victim can become assailant within a conflict - the question then becomes "How good is your lawyer?"

For those who rather be judged by 12 - it's their choice. But I am sure to let them know that if this path is taken they should be prepared to survive jail time else they may be merely trading potential death by an attacker today for death by the state or by a fellow inmate at a later date.

To me, the implicit force continuum of our Aikido training aims to ensure that one uses the least force/energy necessary to end/resolve the conflict. However there is a difference between martial arts and self defence and depending on the level of threat and by extension the level of fear involved, a minimal force policy may not be so easy to maintain. Imho the whole point of controlling ones own centre in the midst of conflict is to maintain the presence of mind to resolve said conflict in a manner that allows all involved to leave with minimal harm. This of course requires real skill.

Best.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:54 PM   #77
RonRagusa
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
Imho the whole point of controlling ones own centre in the midst of conflict is to maintain the presence of mind to resolve said conflict in a manner that allows all involved to leave with minimal harm. This of course requires real skill.
One of the prime movers of our training. Nicely put.

Best,

Ron
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:00 PM   #78
Ketsan
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Fights have rules, self defense has rules, war has rules.... Break the rules and you'll be punished.
Fights have rules? Show me the rule book. Self defence has rules? Show me the rule book.

War and society have laws, granted, but fighting and self defence do not, what happens is you do this freeform thing called fighting and then at a later stage lots of people who weren't there try and hammer it into some kind of legal framework and at the end of that process society declairs that it has rules for fighting.
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Old 05-15-2008, 05:14 PM   #79
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Mary Eastland wrote:

Quote:
I would rather be judged by a jury of my peers than an ex-husband or partner who was trying to own me.
Mary
Absolutely, this is a choice you can make.

The jury of peers can apply the rules to determine if your behavior was acceptable within the constraints of their established paradigm that is formed by the rules of our society...or something like that.

There are always rules.

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Old 05-15-2008, 05:17 PM   #80
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Alex, I think your view on rules is a little more narrow than maybe mine or others. "rules" in my book are the ones that can be established on several levels. Implicit and Explicit.

Implicit rules may be formed by norms, values, judgements, experiences, paradigms and emotions.

It is important to recognize these things and how the affect the situation you are in.

Frankly it one of the main reasons we study budo to begin with...to get to the root of understanding of things internally (implicit).

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Old 05-15-2008, 07:47 PM   #81
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Alex, I think your view on rules is a little more narrow than maybe mine or others. "rules" in my book are the ones that can be established on several levels. Implicit and Explicit.

Implicit rules may be formed by norms, values, judgements, experiences, paradigms and emotions.

It is important to recognize these things and how the affect the situation you are in.

Frankly it one of the main reasons we study budo to begin with...to get to the root of understanding of things internally (implicit).
No doubt. I tend to view rules as being like laws of physics, if you can break it, it's not a law. For me a large part of Budo is opening up your mind to all possibilities, which means acknowledging that some things that we take as being natural and fixed are in actual fact just human constructs and are open to violation. A lot of the time we say "you can't do that" when we really mean "it's not normal to do that."

I agree though it's important to understand them, it's part of getting into your enemies mind. Being bound by them isn't always wise though.
I've lost count of the number of paintball games my teams won by not following the rules. For example, it's a rule that you stop the enemy getting to the flag but if the flag happens to be in a brilliant spot for an ambush, let them have the flag. I realise that, as a rule, the closer they get to the flag the more excited and the less cautious they will be.
They still follow the rule of playing to win, I violate the rule of holding the flag and the situation ends up with the only thing hiding their embarrasment is a thick layer of paint. That said I realise that my rules mean nothing, so I have a backup plan for when they fail.

So yeah, by all means acknowledge the "rules", I just don't think it is wise to think of them as a safety net and I don't it's wise to be restricted by them if they violate common sence.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:02 AM   #82
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Perhaps I missed something when it comes to how many speak of Ueshiba's methods. It should be noted, that Ueshiba wanted his "art" to evolve. I notice a trend on here that pretty much says that if it wasn't "exactly" Ueshiba's way, than it is not Aikido. Ueshiba was constantly experimenting, and wanted his students to do the same. Ueshiba (through my own research, and experience) subscribed to the doctrine that if possible, avoid the situation (fights, places that are of ill repute, etc..) , but when all means to avoid particular situations have been exhausted, then do what needs to be done. The fact of the matter is Aikido/Jutsu is a way to try and harmonize the body and mind. But make no mistake about the lethality of it. People tend to bring up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as being the cats meow when it comes to "self defense". This is a flawed way of thinking. Jiu Jitsu in general, is not designed to be able to take on more than one person. I personally have nothing for BJJ. I prefer the good ol fashioned Japanese methods (Yes, I am aware that a Japanese man introduced Jiu Jitsu to Brazil). I read somewhere on here that Aikido has no escapes if taken to the ground, or that the Aikidoka is pretty much helpless. And that Aikido does not incorporate strikes of any kind. Who ever believes this, needs to find a different school. I'm sure I will find many who will disagree with me when it comes to the origins of "Aikido". As I know it, Aikido stems from Karate, Jiu Jitsu, and Kendo. There is a story I heard about how Aikido was developed. It starts with Ueshiba walking along one day, and in an alley he saw his father being mugged by several thugs. Although Ueshiba was proficient in several forms of Jiu Jitsu, he could not help his father because there was more than one assailant. So he took from Karate (the strikes), Jiu Jitsu (the take downs, locks, breaks, and chokes), and Kendo (the disarming of weapons, and foot work), and came up with a new system based on these forms. It should be noted that some of what was taken from these other forms are also used to counter them. So basically Ueshiba brought back the century's old style of Daito Ryu, and put a more spiritual twist on it. Plain and simple.

Last edited by d2l : 05-16-2008 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:31 AM   #83
rob_liberti
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

I also heard that his father did get attacked. After that I think we pretty much disagree. I respect karate and kendo, like I respect anyone on a martial path.

but, aikido from karate?! ?! ?!

My experience with DR does not jive with that at all. I sincerely doubt that DR people are learning karate for striking. What I have felt in terms of striking from the only DR I know is tremendously powerful and NOTHING like what is taught in any karate form I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot at high levels).

aikido from Kendo?! ?! ?!
If you mean "sword" in general then yes. Kenjitsu/Koryu definately. But, kendo simply CANNOT be a *source* of aikido. Check you facts on this.

Also, what I've read here is that if you are not doing what Osensei's did then it's fine to call it aikido just not Osensei's aikido.

Rob

Last edited by rob_liberti : 05-16-2008 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:16 AM   #84
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
I'm sure I will find many who will disagree with me when it comes to the origins of "Aikido".
Yep, big time. You took one story with **some** small basis in fact, and then went off into the wild blue yonder.

No disrespect, but that post is so full of mis-understandings and bad information that it really boggles the mind. Please, do a search on aikidojournal.com, and read the articles there, on e-budo, here as well. Stanley Pranin's work should probably be required reading for aikidoka. To spread mis-information does no one any service...and it colors everything else you may say, even if it is of value. So you will do yourself a huge service by doing the minimum amount of research.

Best,
Ron

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Old 05-16-2008, 08:18 AM   #85
DonMagee
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Anthony Stebbins wrote: View Post
Perhaps I missed something when it comes to how many speak of Ueshiba's methods. It should be noted, that Ueshiba wanted his "art" to evolve. I notice a trend on here that pretty much says that if it wasn't "exactly" Ueshiba's way, than it is not Aikido. Ueshiba was constantly experimenting, and wanted his students to do the same. Ueshiba (through my own research, and experience) subscribed to the doctrine that if possible, avoid the situation (fights, places that are of ill repute, etc..) , but when all means to avoid particular situations have been exhausted, then do what needs to be done. The fact of the matter is Aikido/Jutsu is a way to try and harmonize the body and mind. But make no mistake about the lethality of it. People tend to bring up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as being the cats meow when it comes to "self defense". This is a flawed way of thinking. Jiu Jitsu in general, is not designed to be able to take on more than one person. I personally have nothing for BJJ. I prefer the good ol fashioned Japanese methods (Yes, I am aware that a Japanese man introduced Jiu Jitsu to Brazil). I read somewhere on here that Aikido has no escapes if taken to the ground, or that the Aikidoka is pretty much helpless. And that Aikido does not incorporate strikes of any kind. Who ever believes this, needs to find a different school. I'm sure I will find many who will disagree with me when it comes to the origins of "Aikido". As I know it, Aikido stems from Karate, Jiu Jitsu, and Kendo. There is a story I heard about how Aikido was developed. It starts with Ueshiba walking along one day, and in an alley he saw his father being mugged by several thugs. Although Ueshiba was proficient in several forms of Jiu Jitsu, he could not help his father because there was more than one assailant. So he took from Karate (the strikes), Jiu Jitsu (the take downs, locks, breaks, and chokes), and Kendo (the disarming of weapons, and foot work), and came up with a new system based on these forms. It should be noted that some of what was taken from these other forms are also used to counter them. So basically Ueshiba brought back the century's old style of Daito Ryu, and put a more spiritual twist on it. Plain and simple.
If your not spending at least 1/3 of your time practicing ground grappling defenses, you style does not have good defenses to ground work.

Unlike striking and wrestling, normal untrained people do not submission grapple. If you get taken to the ground by means other then general wrestling (me push you over) or strikes, then you will probably be under the control of a skilled or semi-skilled grappler. The chance of doing well at this point without training like judo or bjj guys do regularly is slim. Once he secures a dominate position, the chance is almost nill. Your best hope is that you have a friend with you to kick him in the head (although I know a few guys who can grapple multiple people at the same time).

As much as people can argue the best way to train for striking and standing grappling, there just really isn't much of an argument on what is the best way to learn how to fight on the ground. It's a 3 step process and it takes a lot of hard work. You can't do it once a month or a few times a year, it needs to be done a few times a week. You have to drill, add resistance and spar.

Of course depending on your focus, you won't need to train as much as a bjj guy to be effective. If all you want to do is stand up, training that with those methods will be very effective with a 10 or 15 minute session a few days a week. Learning how to defending and escape is a lot easier then learning the whole grappling game. But knowing the whole grappling game improves your defenses and escapes, so it's a catch 22 type situation. MMA has shown however that just working on standing up can have huge gains at defeating a grappler.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:19 AM   #86
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
I also heard that his father did get attacked. After that I think we pretty much disagree. I respect karate and kendo, like I respect anyone on a martial path.

but, aikido from karate?! ?! ?!

My experience with DR does not jive with that at all. I sincerely doubt that DR people are learning karate for striking. What I have felt in terms of striking from the only DR I know is tremendously powerful and NOTHING like what is taught in any karate form I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot at high levels).

aikido from Kendo?! ?! ?!
If you mean "sword" in general then yes. Kenjitsu/Koryu definately. But, kendo simply CANNOT be a *source* of aikido. Check you facts on this.
Ditto.

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote: View Post
Also, what I've read here is that if you are not doing what Osensei's did then it's fine to call it aikido just not Osensei's aikido.

Rob
Well, actually, you aren't doing Shioda aikido, Tomiki aikido, Tohei aikido, Mochizuki aikido, Kuroiwa aikido, er, well quite a few student's aikido. So, then what aikido are you really doing? Because so far, my research shows that most of the students who were competent and capable could all handle themselves very well. No dancing to it. Interesting and very enlightening article by Kuroiwa in Aiki News #66 regarding aikido and fighting. Well worth the read.

You have medieval dance, you have ballroom dance, so, why not just call it new age waki dance. Wa being harmony and ki being energy. Voila, now you can practice neowakido.

Mark
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:25 AM   #87
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Anthony Stebbins wrote: View Post
So he took from Karate (the strikes), Jiu Jitsu (the take downs, locks, breaks, and chokes), and Kendo (the disarming of weapons, and foot work), and came up with a new system based on these forms.
Not sure where you got your information but this is a bit incorrect imho. Especially the Karate stuff. Some research on Aikidojournal.com may be in order. Which brings me to a related question: Is the Purple Dragon school you attend in Florida the same Purple Dragon school with its Headquarters in Trinidad?

Best.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:04 AM   #88
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Ya know, it irritates me to no end about the comments on my research. The same could be said of anybody else's research. Nobody can prove what they have read is true, nor can it be disproved. We can all find holes in anybodys research, and we can find what we believe to be true. The fact of the matter is, NOBODY is an expert in this field. Hence Ueshiba wanting his art to evolve. It is constantly changing. I feel that it is o.k. to disagree, but the attitudes of some on here are very much primadonna like. I thought this was a forum to discuss varying points of view, and to be able to share new things learned or discovered. Not to be told one is absolutely wrong because they are not agreed with. I guess in this sense I am absolutely wrong. Y'all have a great day.
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:20 AM   #89
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Sorry you took the advice this way. The fact is, there are verifiable facts, and some researchers (Stan Pranin among them) have taken the time to cross check the facts from multiple sources. From people who were there, from records, photos, etc.

Why do so many people want to insist that the sky is red, when it is clearly blue? There are informed opinions, and then...there are just unfounded opinions. Lighten up, do some reading. We all suffer from mis-information at some point. It's not a character flaw, it just means we still have some learning to do. Accepting that and doing the reading shows good character.

Don't take it personally, take it as a challenge to do the reading suggested, and grow a bit. You'll find out very quickly (among other things) that karate is from Okinawa (it's not from the mainland of Japan), and Ueshiba had little to no exposure to it during the time aikido was being formed. His mentor, Sogaku Takeda, did in fact fight a kareteka once, but did not adopt that particular striking strategy himself. Daito Ryu already contains atemi...no reason to go outside to find it.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 05-16-2008, 10:28 AM   #90
rob_liberti
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Many of the people on this forum have spent our entire lives reseaching aikido, its orgins, how to best do it, and what to combine with it (and what not to combine with it!) for our various goals, etc. We all continue to evolve and change. There is enough confusion that we have sorted out most of the verifyable facts.

If you are irritated enough to risk a bit of safety and comfort, I know an expert in that field that would love to prove to you the power of DR oriented striking and weapons taking. Hovever, going in with that kind of attitude will just get your butt kicked as opposed to getting yourself invited to learn.

Rob
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Old 05-16-2008, 11:09 AM   #91
DonMagee
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Anthony Stebbins wrote: View Post
Ya know, it irritates me to no end about the comments on my research. The same could be said of anybody else's research. Nobody can prove what they have read is true, nor can it be disproved. We can all find holes in anybodys research, and we can find what we believe to be true. The fact of the matter is, NOBODY is an expert in this field. Hence Ueshiba wanting his art to evolve. It is constantly changing. I feel that it is o.k. to disagree, but the attitudes of some on here are very much primadonna like. I thought this was a forum to discuss varying points of view, and to be able to share new things learned or discovered. Not to be told one is absolutely wrong because they are not agreed with. I guess in this sense I am absolutely wrong. Y'all have a great day.
This is a sad attitude to have. I am not a fan of the respect what everyone says and pretend it is true club. Instead of getting angry, I suggest finding evidence to back up your claims then post that evidence for discussion.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:55 PM   #92
d2l
 
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Aikido
Ken Williams
1. The Background of Aikido
Aikido is a scientific form of self-defence created over fifty years ago by Master M.
Uyeshiba, who is still practising at the age of eighty-six at the world centre of the fighting art -
the Aikikai, Tokyo, Japan. Aikido was a secret known only to a relatively few privileged
Japanese up until as recently as 1948. The requirements to gain entrance into the inner chambers
of the Aikido gymnasium and to learn Aikido's art and philosophy were many including at least
two recommendations from well-known, respected citizens of Japan.
Aikido is a combination of many martial arts including ju-jitsu, Kendo and Karate. Most
Budo (military arts) originated from a kind of physical fitness programme, developed into selfdefence
arts and then on to refined Budo.

O.K., theres one source to mull over. Please forgive me for just posting the first section. I don't know how much space is alotted on here.

Aikido (合気道, aikidō?) is a Japanese martial art developed by Morihei Ueshiba as a synthesis of his martial studies, philosophy, and religious beliefs. Aikido is often translated as "the Way of unifying (with) life energy"[1] or as "the Way of harmonious spirit."[2] Ueshiba's goal was to create an art that practitioners could use to defend themselves while also protecting their attacker from injury.

Aikido is performed by blending with the motion of the attacker and redirecting the force of the attack rather than opposing it head-on. The aikidoka (aikido practitioner) "leads" the attacker's momentum using entering and turning movements. The techniques are completed with various throws or joint locks.[3] Aikido can be categorized under the general umbrella of grappling arts.

Aikido derives mainly from the martial art of Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu, but began to diverge from it in the late 1920s, partly due to Ueshiba's involvement with the Ōmoto-kyō religion. Ueshiba's early students' documents bear the term aiki-jūjutsu.[4] Many of Ueshiba's senior students have different approaches to aikido, depending on when they studied with him. Today aikido is found all over the world in a number of styles, with broad ranges of interpretation and emphasis. However, they all share techniques learned from Ueshiba and most have concern for the well-being of the attacker.

My school tends to go more of the Jutsu way, however we do not ignore the Do.

This is a mental and spiritual problem and not just a physical one. How is it possible to
become more creative if what we do teaches us how not to be? Clearly, we can't. So how we
train matters. It matters a great deal. To experience something we don't normally experience,
we have to practice in ways that do not reinforce our normal knowing-ness. We have to train
in ways that do not reinforce our pre-existing sense of the work-a-day world. The founder of
aikido was aware of this problem. He didn't want his techniques to become static and
mechanical. He didn't want people to imitate him or his students in a stereotyped way. He
knew that those who just copied what he did could not expect to transcend the limits of the
conscious mind. What did he think people should do, then? His whole life was an answer to
this question. He suggested, both in what he wrote and in how he lived, that change itself be
allowed to show the way. He suggested we accept the significance of an ever-changing
universe from the very start. Ralph Petmann.

Seems to me Ueshiba did want his art to evolve and go down new paths. Again forgive the small postings.

Paul Linden gives pretty good advice in his books. I didn't realize I already had him on a C.D. So much for "proving" sources to what one believes. It's kind of like religion, everybody is wrong, and yet everybody is right.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:25 PM   #93
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

The material from Ken Williams is just flat wrong. He's got a few truths mixed in with the usual bs to make it all look good. This part especially is wrong:

Quote:
Aikido is a combination of many martial arts including ju-jitsu, Kendo and Karate. Most
Budo (military arts) originated from a kind of physical fitness programme, developed into selfdefence
arts and then on to refined Budo.
But hey, it's your boat, use whatever floats it.

This part, however, is correct:

Quote:
Aikido derives mainly from the martial art of Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu, but began to diverge from it in the late 1920s, partly due to Ueshiba's involvement with the Ōmoto-kyō religion. Ueshiba's early students' documents bear the term aiki-jūjutsu.[4] Many of Ueshiba's senior students have different approaches to aikido, depending on when they studied with him. Today aikido is found all over the world in a number of styles, with broad ranges of interpretation and emphasis. However, they all share techniques learned from Ueshiba and most have concern for the well-being of the attacker.
Please note the apparent contradiction between:
Quote:
Aikido derives mainly from the martial art of Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu
and
Quote:
Aikido is a combination of many martial arts including ju-jitsu, Kendo and Karate.
Did it occur to you that one of these might be incorrect?
Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 05-16-2008 at 01:28 PM.

Ron Tisdale
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:08 PM   #94
DH
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

It also did not diverge in the 1920's
People confuse Ueshibas religous pursuits with his actual activities real and whole.
Always remember if he was so enamored of all this...er stuff. and had trained in all this other...stuff. What possesed him, on that day when he fnally arrived to teach for the frst time and open his dojo to...to.... call it Daito ryu? Which he proceeded to teach in detail to all of those founding students who were the recipients of the Daito Ryu hiden Mokuroku scrolld and more.
Things began to change in the mid to late thirties. I have to check, but I think he starting forging the scrolls (screwing around and writing them out as something else beside DR) while writing the changed name on a DR mokuroku somewhere around mid 30's.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:37 PM   #95
rob_liberti
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Check this page out:

http://www.ellisaikido.org/histuk.html

I can see where that alternate history of aikido may have been a bit self-serving to his MMA club.

Rob
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Old 05-17-2008, 01:09 AM   #96
d2l
 
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

So once again we get into a pissing contest over who is right, and who is wrong. Nevermind the madrid of OPINIONS written by those on this site, or by whom they cite their "facts" from to enforce what they believe to be true. We are all right in our opinoins and research, and yet wrong at the same time. As the ol saying goes, sometimes it's not what is said, but HOW it is said. Ahh, gotta love oxymorons. So, as to make peace with myself and others, and not fall victim to what I have learned from the Do aspect of Aikido/Jutsu, I will not let my frustration conquer me. I am done with this thread. Stay safe everyone.
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:39 AM   #97
dps
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Quote:
Anthony Stebbins wrote: View Post
....Aikido gymnasium ...
Did they play basketball and volleyball at this gymnasium?

David
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Old 05-17-2008, 10:22 AM   #98
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

You still don't get it do you? It's not a matter of a "pissing contest". But hey, as I said, what ever floats your boat.

Be well,
Ron
Quote:
Anthony Stebbins wrote: View Post
So once again we get into a pissing contest over who is right, and who is wrong. Nevermind the madrid of OPINIONS written by those on this site, or by whom they cite their "facts" from to enforce what they believe to be true. We are all right in our opinoins and research, and yet wrong at the same time. As the ol saying goes, sometimes it's not what is said, but HOW it is said. Ahh, gotta love oxymorons. So, as to make peace with myself and others, and not fall victim to what I have learned from the Do aspect of Aikido/Jutsu, I will not let my frustration conquer me. I am done with this thread. Stay safe everyone.

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:30 PM   #99
crand32100
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Mary,
Great post! I detest writing in these discussions, and for the most part don't like even reading them, but you've got courage. My personal opinion: if you want to be a good fighter, aikido is for the most part the worst place to go. That doesn't mean that the lessons don't have value. I'd like to think I can move myself if I need to escape something. But I personally can't get past this idea: the most ruthless person will most likely win. If you are up against someone that is drugged, stupid, or born with a true loathing for fellow mankind, you have to ask yourself if you have what it takes to be just as ruthless, because there is no time to go back into your garage for techniques. I know that I don't have what it takes, and if something terrible enough occurred to make me forget this, I wouldn't likely be using aikido techniques on my opponent. I like to think that at least I have the sense to be running when others will be trying out their shihonages. I bet you'll enjoy the responses to this post Mary because like you suggested those in agreement don't tend to speak up.

TC
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Old 05-17-2008, 08:00 PM   #100
rob_liberti
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Re: Fight does not work at all in Aikido.

Do you call your aikido a "martial" art?
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