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Old 03-26-2008, 05:14 AM   #26
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Erik wrote:

Quote:
There is pitfall in Aikido-training. Aikido isnt about executing a technique gracefully in a way that it looks beautiful and natural. Looking gracefully, beautiful and natural are all a side effect of the continued study of Suki.
Agreed. It is about mastery of self I think. with such a goal, I think you want to improve in many ways...which leads me to want to be able to respond in such a way that is natural, graceful, and beautiful.

I think it is more of an endstate, however, maybe not the methodology of getting there. Might not seem like such a huge distinction, but if you are chasing that dream, it is sort of like wanting to be on top of the mountain by being on top of the mountain, however, you are not interesting in climbing the mountain to get to the top of the mountain...creates a paradox that you can't solve if you aren't willing to put in the hard work.

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Old 03-26-2008, 11:12 PM   #27
xuzen
 
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

This reminded me the story " Hey, who moved my cheese" .

In the story, the mice knew that they are not getting what they want and the move on to newer pasture, end of story.

The human, on the other hand, linger on... and they became miserable, resentment set in, they curse, they scold because they are not getting what they want.

Some of the posters here I know are like the mice... they move on to other art to get a feel of what is out there to meet their needs. Folks like Don Magee, Kevin Levitt, Michael Fooks are some I can think of.

I think you will probably look at Aikido in a different light after spending some time in a more rough and tumble art.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:31 PM   #28
rob_liberti
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Another option is to refuse to accept that aikido doesn't work and find people to help you make it work. That's my plan.

My opinions is that aikido doesn't need MORE teachers. It needs more determined students.

Rob
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:40 AM   #29
Gernot Hassenpflug
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Maybe this will help you get some direction (or at least the motivation to go out and look for some). My teacher said the other night that the difference between Budo and Bujutsu is like night and day.

Budo is like a religion: the practitioner takes some mental construct, a set of principles, and keeps those in mind as an ideal, and then goes through stylized moves that allow him or her to feel as though they are putting those ideals into physical motion and instilling discipline in themselves (budo is intended for social benefit). With that there is some exercise for the body. However, no great development of the body ever happens, nor detailed understanding of it; ergo, the understanding people find from doing budo is really not very deep at all. This is Shin-gi-tai in the order expressed in the phrase.

Bujutsu, on the other hand, does tai-gi-shin, exactly the opposite: the practitioner forces his or her body to undergo specific exercises that change the body and give him or her some deep understanding of the body, to great detail. As that understanding develops, the body can be used to perform so-called techniques (which are not really special movements, but only the body in motion according with the understanding given the practitioner), and finally, when the practitioner is really powerful, he or she may decide to no hurt or harm an opponent and use the training as a kind of ascetic exercise.

Thus, budo and bujutsu are sort of polar opposites.

Regards, Gernot
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:34 AM   #30
Michael Varin
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
Another option is to refuse to accept that aikido doesn't work and find people to help you make it work. That's my plan.
Rob,

Your last post brought up some interesting questions.

What is it that leads someone to believe aikido doesn't work?

When you can make aikido work, What does that mean? What does that look like?

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:41 AM   #31
phitruong
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

what fun would it be if all of your aikido techniques worked? to me that's just plain boring. it's more interesting when things don't work and you spent time and effort figuring out. that is when you learn. that is how you find out what you made out of.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:44 AM   #32
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
When you can make aikido work, What does that mean? What does that look like?
Looks like this:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=NhoLFF3Z7u4

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Old 03-27-2008, 08:03 AM   #33
heathererandolph
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Keep practicing and try not to look too far down the road. Everyone feels a lack of confidence teaching other students when that time comes. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Experience is the best teacher. Don't let yourself get down on yourself. Think positively & aim high.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:43 PM   #34
Don
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Aikido teaches principles of (not to sound too eastern here) blending with the energy a person presents (for those of you who want to think concretely think kinetic energy or momentum), and off balancing. You know that. These principles are all very valid in a martial or fighting context, We use contrived attacks to practice these principles. Uke cooperates so nage can practice mastering these principles. However, if you want to apply these principles in a "modern attack scenario you usually will have to ask yourself "what is aikido teaching me about martial application. You've already figured out that, for instance, (a) most people don't attack shomenuchi or even yokomenuchi, unless they are wild. Most people don't come and grab your wrist and then do nothing else.....so how do you translate what you have hopefully begun to put in muscle memory into applying it toward, say a right cross, or a push? You've got to ask yourself those questions and consciously try and figure them out for yourself. Your sensei can only help. Why? Because (a) he or she may not KNOW how to apply techniques in a martial context, (b) but more likely, (and don't take this as an insult), he or she is probably at a place where what SEEMS obvious to them is not to you and can only be explained to a degree. When I teach people with much less experience, I wrack my brain to figure ways to get as much over to them as I can both by verbal explanation and demonstration of technique. And still there are things they do not get. I know this from observation and by being their uke. Some of it you just have to consciously experiment with, For instance, we practice in this benign way of receiving techniques usually with our hands down by our sides. Well, duh, someone who wants to hit you is not going to use aikido maai. They are going to close the distance first. You have to go beyond starting at aikido maai, and learning to react when someone enters that zone AND getting your hands and arms up and out like holding a sword. I guarantee you if you are positioned correctly (lead foot outside their lead foot) you can block (deflect) their right cross or left hook and execute a devestating ikkyo (for instance). I had to teach myself that though. I did not directly learn it from my sensei.

Here's another thing to think about martially. We do iriminage and wonder how this is going to work for real. Well, usually you aren't going to do a full tenkan. Or another strategy is teaching yourself to move in literally right behind nage (and I do mean right behind them). This usually isn't done in the beginning because iriminage is about entering and blending. Usually so we are practicing in big lazy circles to practice the blending aspects. But if you teach yourself to enter right behind nage, you have put yourself in their dead spot, and in perfect position for a choke. Is it the nice figure 8 iriminage we have all come to love and practice? NO! But is is very martial. A choke out from this position can end an altercation quickly.

Also in randori practice all the uke's are attacking like madmen on a battlefield. Is that the way it would happen if you were stupid enough or unlucky enough to get in a bar fight? Nah. You'd most likely suprise the first guy, and if you were that lucky, what do you think would happen next. Well the way I figure it, their buddies would all either rush you at once or if they attacked indivdually, you can bet they would be expecting you to do something and be resistive. Wouldn't you if you just saw your buddy get trashed and you were about to take up for him? So at some point you have to practice henka waza. If you practice diligently and long enough you will see the openings to change to another technique or angle when someone is resistive. It just takes time and conscious effort. You HAVE to take some responsibility for what you get out of aikido if what that is is to be martially effective. I just don't buy this argument that some are putting out there that aikido is just really not about being martially effective. It may not be taught in a way that appears to make it martially effective, but jeez there HAVE been plenty of practitioners who have made it martially effective and the techniques did COME from martial systems. However, what we have is a system that has been invented by O'Sensei with a different purpose in mind. So like I said in the beginning. If you want your aikido to be martially effective, YOU have to ask yourself what aikido is teaching you that can be martially effective and then seek to develop that. Then you have your aikido. Someone else may not want that and may be perfectly happy getting better and better at blending and extending just doing the kihon kata. That is their aikido. Take charge, Don't just depend on your sensei to feed it all to you. You will never discover what you want if you don't take that initiative.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:34 AM   #35
ChrisHein
 
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
I guess I don't get it...

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Old 03-28-2008, 07:01 AM   #36
Don
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Looks like this:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=NhoLFF3Z7u4

Looks like aikido to me
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:00 PM   #37
Daniel Blanco
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Smile Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

ADVICE for you and your 08 yrs of training,when you train try on a semi non cooperative uke, respect each other first,learn from each other. When I teach a tech, i sometimes use a new student because the student will only go where you put him because he doesnt know where to go.Aikido does work,I know, I am an active P.O., and use this art all the time.First you must always use atemi to soften up your target to either off balance him,or get him in your loop to either throw or lock on to him and pin him. This art is a get your attacker in motion art,its not like BJJ or karate where you go directly forward on a hard target/person who waits to fight,you get him as he comes for you got it,listen you are a brown belt get your target moving and train always in motion not from static/stand still,we all get bored its normal,but trust in yourself and the art you study, and this is my direct message to you,from a NY.COP/SHODAN.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:29 PM   #38
akiy
 
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Hi folks,

I'm moving this thread out of the Anonymous forum at this time and into the Training forum, as I feel the nature of the thread has more moved towards a general discussion of the topic rather than one that necessitates anonymity.

-- Jun

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Old 03-28-2008, 06:21 PM   #39
edtang
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Daniel Blanco wrote: View Post
This art is a get your attacker in motion art,its not like BJJ or karate where you go directly forward on a hard target/person who waits to fight,you get him as he comes for you got it.
Ugh, from my experience (about eight weeks now) this is not universally true at all in BJJ training.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:35 PM   #40
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Yea, I was going to say the same thing about BJJ...not necessarily true. I am a purple belt in BJJ.

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Old 03-28-2008, 10:53 PM   #41
Buck
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Confidence is really a big issue, and I feel for the guy with this issue. This is something I think many of us go through at some point in our careers. I did.

You have to have a healthy ego to be confident, and ego comes from positive results. If you are losing too many times you lose confidence in yourself. Then you go through a bunch of self-doubt in who you and what you can do. That is the real fight to win to defeat self-doubt and poor confidence. Practice and keeping up on your skill, and continue to improve are all part that help to overcome that rut.

Aikido is a way to defend yourself in a situation where you’re attacked by a punk. Doing that is a small part of Aikido. Because, I don't about you, but I don't think too many of us ever face a situation like in a Steven Segal movie. I mean those scenes in his first movie. Not that the movies don’t base their scenes on real life. It is rare for most of us have ever had to encounter that type of hard core situation as depicted by the movie. That is a good thing, I think. Aikidoka (if they are true Aikidoka) are not out there to purposely get into fights. I have heard the stories of some of O’Sensei’s students doing that. I am saying it doing that isn’t in the blueprint. It's not typical of Aikidoka. Because what we understand proving that we can kick anyone and everyone's butt- the biggest myth ever invented- isn’t our thing. Kicking butt isn’t a very realistic expectation; it stunts the growth.

I told a friend once Aikidoka are not fighter pilots. Our training is different. It is so because of our different ideal then most other martial arts. We are more like commercial pilots trained to save the lives we carry. Bush pilot or crop duster pilot are good examples too. Instead of being fighter pilots, we are pilots that are trained to handle special conditions; we have a different outlook then most. Of course, it is an easy step to fighter pilot if we want. By reading this board it looks like some people already have.

Another comparison I make is Aikidoka are helicopter pilots we have our own specialty that we work. It can't be compared to that of a top gun fighter pilot. Planes and helicopter don’t have the same designs, they are different types of aircraft. Each aircraft has a different purpose and use, why compare. Though being human we do, judging everything across the board by the same wooden yard stick, we can't help it. We are human. Aikido strengths are in its form and function.

Aikidoka like any other martial artist are going to have those who are not good and those who are great in the area rear end kicking department. That is the individual and not the art. Some people don't seem to make Aikido work for them in a challenge, but they might experience the opposite in a different situation. People under pressure of saving their life or other's live confronted by a dangerous punk can do amazing things. Those who do well in challenges, on the other hand, may freeze up in a real danger situation. You never know what a person will do, or is able to do, or can’t do, or not do under the right circumstances of an intensely dangerous situation.

Aikidoka are not fighter pilots, and shouldn’t be taking on challenges from fighter pilots. Aikidoka don't train for that arena. It isn't what an Aikidoka was designed for, or what we practice for.

Anytime you’re a fish out of water, you will experience doubt. Fighting on the other guys terms to prove your art is capable is always going to be fatal. I don't care what art it is. You take a MMA fighter, Muay Tai, any fighter like that put them in skates, on the ice, in the rink, and tell them to play hockey. I can't tell you how ugly that is going to be when they eat the boards, or a stick, get really checked, or find themselves being locked helpless as they are rifled by a blur of punches to the head by their opponent. The only person who can compete with that would be an other hockey player. Martial arts don’t seem to work when you’re on skates while being roughed up by the jersey, a whole different world. A world most martial artists great and small or people ever experience, if they did it would be at a huge disadvantage.

I agree, if you are going to run a school you have to have the skill and knowledge required by that art. People have to have confidence in what you teach to others in form and function. A funny thing about martial arts instruction is, it isn't like being a coach. A coach doesn't have to prove themselves beyond being able to coach to win. He doesn't have to out perform his players in skill and ability. In martial arts including Aikido we expect that. We expect that thing out of other teachers, it is unrealistic. How often the sensei’s ability to teach effectively is stressed over their ability to kick butt? We don’t expect a coach to defeat anyone who walks on the field. A sensei, on the other hand, must meet every challenge offered and never lose! Isn’t that way of thinking dated, and unrealistic? Has there ever been such a person? I don’t think so. Everyone one is beatable, just not everyone can do it.

Bottom line is being realistic about it all. If you are going to run a school I think there has to be at least a realistic level of skill, a realistic level of competency, a realistic level of the ability to teach. Not the unrealistic and out-dated idea that the sensei has to be an undefeatable Superman to be worthy of teaching. Upon this realization, I think confidence is built, self-doubt is gone, and the need to prove something not part of the menu. Do Aikido for Aikido, teach Aikido to spread Aikido, Aikido is for Aikido. If you find yourself in a bad situation even badly done Aikido can save your life. What will not save your life is self-doubt and lack of confidence in yourself. You really got to weight it out for an honest view of why you teach and why you do Aikido.

Good luck, and don’t be so hard on yourself, high expectations don't lead anywhere nice.

Didn't realize I wrote so much, WOW. Got to cut back.

Last edited by Buck : 03-28-2008 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:48 AM   #42
Amir Krause
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Some questions you should answer

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Hello everyone. Though I have an account on here, this is the topic I never wanted to post. So I am under Annoynamus.

I have been doing Aikido for about 8 years now, and it has become a great important part of my life. There has even been uchideshi phases and lots of money spent on travels and fees, on countless videos and books.

So.. At my school I have learned lots from my Shihan and Aikido. Self Confidence is the big one. My social skills have improved alot as well. I also have broken bad habits I used to do that invalid going out lots to bars.

Aikido has been great to me, but what do you ask then is the problem?

While the problem lies here in... I always wanted to start my own school since I started.. I know it is still 8 - 10 years down the road... This is fine, but the other day I trained with a professional fighter. I did not expect to win sparing, and your right.. I lost..

But then I tried with people who were not even in martial arts, and more then often enough I am still getting my ars handed to me.

This greatly upsets me.. I cannot run a school to teach self defense and confidence if I have not faith my own abilities. :-(

I look at the black belts in my school, and they are able to do all this stuff awesome, however at brown belt I am still missing it.

In relation to this, if I work with new students who co-oporate they look at my technique with awe, and seem impressed. However after training with a few now Aikido people I am finding that people outside don't co-oporate. Even people who are in class that are really stiff make the technique very difficult. I tried to teach one friend ikkyo and he was even stiff as hell and I had trouble with it.. Tried everything to make it work, in the end I resorted to atemi for it to work.

Infact the only way I can make Aikido work for me at all anymore is by adding Atemi. :-( The lost of confidence in my abilities has gotten so bad now that even when doing my technique with others I have to add atemi. It is like a crutch I have to use. I know my teacher has taught atemi many times, but I know alot of the time we havent used it as well. WHY CAN'T I GET IT WITHOUT ATEMI!

I also want to add that I try real hard to obsorbe it, and practise all the time. I focus on every detail, sometimes too hard to the point I lose it.. And I will be honest I am A.D.D, so it is sometimes hard. Honestly I don't know if this is why other people have it by now and I do not. But I honestly feel I am missing everything. I am frustrated and after 8 years I am ready to move to something else.

Unless.............. Unless there is some sort of explanation for this, or some sort of reason that someone can bring to my attention of why I am not getting it. Please tell me there is something to get, because I know my seniors have found it, and even some of my juniors... Just not me. :-(

Any idea on whats going on? Anyone else been here before?
I have several ideas on what is going on, and would like to ask you about them:

a. Are you a warrior?
No martial art can fight for you. Some people can study M.A. for years and they will still be behind others who are know less but are much more a warrior. I know some of my Kohai are better fighters then me, I can teach them quite a bit about Korindo Aikido techniques and tactics. But I they were and still are better fighters, and since I do not have a huge technical advantage, I am more likely to lose a fight against them then win.
In my case, it is easier to reconcile -- I know myself, I know those people. I also know they have learned a few other M.A. to high level and some also have significant real life experiences (being in special army units etc.).

b. Is your teacher teaching you to fight?
One should also find a teacher who considers the fighting skills which can be developed via Aikido to be of importance. Otherwise, the way you learn may hide those skills from you. Some Aikido teachers consider fighting to be the last thing of importance, and are not interested in it. Learning to fight from such a teacher requires you to be better.
A partial answer to that is the fighting skill of your Sempai, and other students -- can they fight?

c. Is your teacher teaching to fight
In some places I have seen people teach Aikido which would never be effective against an attack, not without great modifications. Can you perform any technique in a single step? Are your locks painful on the joints?
In my opinion, such places are part of the previous group, except their teacher and students are ignorant of this fact. I recall seeing a teacher trying to show Aikido as S.D. fighting by simply pacing up the same thing, not realizing he requires several steps to each technique, and Uke could have resisted him or attack him during that time.

d. Can YOU learn to fight given a symbolic methodical approach?
Aikido is often taught in a very symbolic way. In many places Aikido teaches correct and high level technical principles, but the attacks are only symbolic and far from realistic. This requires you to be better to learn how to take those principles and apply them in real life.
Not all places teach this way. And even in those which do, some teachers are so good at sending intent that one can learn to fight in this way too.

Another way of looking at the situation you had would be on the individual case:
Check where are you failing, and it is easier to test this in a backwards order:
1. Can your Uke evade you after you finished the lock? Why? Are you letting them go due to fear of injury to them?
2. Are your techniques mechanically correct? When you perform a lock, does Uke feel he is about to break? Can he resist with force after you are in position? Practice slowly with a good Uke, ask him to resist in a way proportional to the situation, can you execute your technique?
3. Start the technique, can Uke get out after you have started? How many steps are required for your technique (this is a simple measure for time and simplicity - for each step you take, Uke can take one too)
3. Facing resistance: Are you sure you select the correct technical response to the situation? The Aiki approach is one of sensing Uke force and utilizing it to lock him by selecting the correct response at the correct time. Again with a good experienced Uke - test your ability in static situations with resistance at first -- you are free to use any technique you wish, can you?
4. Can you get a Kuzushi of Uke? This requires correct position and timing. Again, start slowly with a good Uke, he should be allowed to follow you if he can sense you move before his commitment to a specific attack (If he is better then you, you may need some leeway).
5. Situational readiness -- can you sense Uke intent and react to it. This is an higher level of timing required to utilize Aiki at high speeds. One idea to practice is similar to the one above -- but with a Shinai -- now you must get to Uke before he finishes his attack and you have a large distance to cover. If you start too soon, Uke steps back and hits you on the head.
6. Opportunity creation -- I am not at this level yet, I only sense it on occasion, thus I will not try to explain more then the term. You should lead Uke and select his attack.

Hope this helps a bit.
Amir
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:22 PM   #43
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I guess I don't get it...
Take away strikes and weapons and what you get is basically standup grappling with restraining intent.

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Old 03-30-2008, 06:28 PM   #44
Mary Turner
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Yes!
I totally agree, especially point #3. If a technique is not working, Most times I have not moved the center, mine or Uke's in a way that affects balance. Sometimes it is hard to see it when observing experienced folks, but they are dropping their center or subtly turning their hips and really moving their partner.

Sometimes it looks like THE FORCE
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Old 03-30-2008, 08:53 PM   #45
Ketsan
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Hello everyone. Though I have an account on here, this is the topic I never wanted to post. So I am under Annoynamus.

I have been doing Aikido for about 8 years now, and it has become a great important part of my life. There has even been uchideshi phases and lots of money spent on travels and fees, on countless videos and books.

So.. At my school I have learned lots from my Shihan and Aikido. Self Confidence is the big one. My social skills have improved alot as well. I also have broken bad habits I used to do that invalid going out lots to bars.

Aikido has been great to me, but what do you ask then is the problem?

While the problem lies here in... I always wanted to start my own school since I started.. I know it is still 8 - 10 years down the road... This is fine, but the other day I trained with a professional fighter. I did not expect to win sparing, and your right.. I lost..

But then I tried with people who were not even in martial arts, and more then often enough I am still getting my ars handed to me.

This greatly upsets me.. I cannot run a school to teach self defense and confidence if I have not faith my own abilities. :-(

I look at the black belts in my school, and they are able to do all this stuff awesome, however at brown belt I am still missing it.

In relation to this, if I work with new students who co-oporate they look at my technique with awe, and seem impressed. However after training with a few now Aikido people I am finding that people outside don't co-oporate. Even people who are in class that are really stiff make the technique very difficult. I tried to teach one friend ikkyo and he was even stiff as hell and I had trouble with it.. Tried everything to make it work, in the end I resorted to atemi for it to work.

Infact the only way I can make Aikido work for me at all anymore is by adding Atemi. :-( The lost of confidence in my abilities has gotten so bad now that even when doing my technique with others I have to add atemi. It is like a crutch I have to use. I know my teacher has taught atemi many times, but I know alot of the time we havent used it as well. WHY CAN'T I GET IT WITHOUT ATEMI!

I also want to add that I try real hard to obsorbe it, and practise all the time. I focus on every detail, sometimes too hard to the point I lose it.. And I will be honest I am A.D.D, so it is sometimes hard. Honestly I don't know if this is why other people have it by now and I do not. But I honestly feel I am missing everything. I am frustrated and after 8 years I am ready to move to something else.

Unless.............. Unless there is some sort of explanation for this, or some sort of reason that someone can bring to my attention of why I am not getting it. Please tell me there is something to get, because I know my seniors have found it, and even some of my juniors... Just not me. :-(

Any idea on whats going on? Anyone else been here before?
You've got toriitus (or nageitus). The belief that reality should conform to training and that if it doesn't you and the art have failed and/or the belief that anything that doesn't look like training isn't Aikido. There is a cure: ukeitus.

When I was going through what you're going through I was hung up on the fact that untrained people were stopping my technique. My thought process was "I can't do x against a resisting opponent, I can only do it on a co-operative uke. I'm crap, Aikido is crap."
I was so busy worrying about the technique being stopped that I didn't look to see what position uke was in.

Every time someone stops my ikkyo they have their back to me because by the time they feel what I'm doing I've turned them. They're all tense. Tension is good, you can't do much when you're tense, having their back to me is good, it means they are open.
It means there is nothing they can do when I decide to plant my feet and dump my hips into a nice big punch into the back of their head or I decide to stamp down on the back of their knee, or bring them down with irimi nage, or reach under their arm and put them in sankyo or move in and choke them out, or knee them in the kidneys, or drop an elbow on their head or......................

Maybe there are 7th or 8th dan shihans out there with totally irresistable technique, if so then we all need to work towards that. Until you get there the truth is your technique will be resisted but if you think like an uke and accept the reality of whats going on and react to it in a common sence way then it really doesn't matter.

Aikido works, everything you've been taught is valid, it's just that you've not figured out how to use it.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:51 AM   #46
Daniel Blanco
Dojo: Suffolk Aikikai
Location: Patchogue
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Just want to inform all concerned my perspective may not have been correct on BJJ,thats because I train in aikido,and also have boxing background (06yrs) I respect all arts,but I am trying to give some positve advice on aikido,remember this is an aikido website,so lets stay focused on AIKIDO.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:09 AM   #47
Cephallus
Dojo: judo only at the moment
Location: SoCal
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

I totally understand the issues you have with a.d.d. - one of the things I like about aikido (and similar activities) is that it challenges my disorganized brain to find ways to focus. I've found that the more I practice in practical ways (like imitating instruction in aikido), the less the a.d.d. impacts other areas of my life. A fun, non-threatening, yet direct way to learn coping/adaptive skills.

I don't know much about your background, but speaking personally, a.d.d. has definitely impacted my self-confidence. Sometimes it's easy to laugh off some of the harmless issues that come with it (like losing every tool I'm using for a project before finishing), but a lifetime of people making assumptions that you either just don't care or are too lazy to 'get it together' definitely takes a toll.

Anyway, stay with it. Keep learning. And don't get so down on yourself. Focus on the progress you've made in your own life doing aikido.

Last edited by Cephallus : 03-31-2008 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:18 PM   #48
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Gernot Hassenpflug wrote: View Post
Maybe this will help you get some direction (or at least the motivation to go out and look for some). My teacher said the other night that the difference between Budo and Bujutsu is like night and day.

Budo is like a religion: the practitioner takes some mental construct, a set of principles, and keeps those in mind as an ideal, and then goes through stylized moves that allow him or her to feel as though they are putting those ideals into physical motion and instilling discipline in themselves (budo is intended for social benefit). With that there is some exercise for the body. However, no great development of the body ever happens, nor detailed understanding of it; ergo, the understanding people find from doing budo is really not very deep at all. This is Shin-gi-tai in the order expressed in the phrase.

Bujutsu, on the other hand, does tai-gi-shin, exactly the opposite: the practitioner forces his or her body to undergo specific exercises that change the body and give him or her some deep understanding of the body, to great detail. As that understanding develops, the body can be used to perform so-called techniques (which are not really special movements, but only the body in motion according with the understanding given the practitioner), and finally, when the practitioner is really powerful, he or she may decide to no hurt or harm an opponent and use the training as a kind of ascetic exercise.

Thus, budo and bujutsu are sort of polar opposites.

Regards, Gernot
This was such a great post I have wanted to get back to this for a long time now. The interesting point to me about this distinction is that most of the Budo people we all admire have changed their bodies mch more in accord with what was described above in the bujutsu definition. My opinion is that these ideas as polar opposites are only surface level inconsistencies that only few dedicated and passionate individuals have somewhat reconciled. I want to completely reconcile them myself.

Michael asked me 2 questions I have meant to get back to as well. I think many many people want delusion. Many people avoid the work of a transformative practice. Teachers who can help reconcile budo/bujitsu are very hard to find. It is easy to get complacent and get the ego fix of blending in with the martial arts wallpaper. Even the most dedicated, understand that their techniques only work on some percentage of people and work to inmprove the percentage. Breaking through to an understanding where your aikido works on skilled kamikazi type attackers is no small task.

What does aikido look like when both people have internally powered MMA and true fighting experience who are both protecting their aggressor? I'm not sure. I think it will look like atemi(s) with strong inititive, tremendous structural integrity, energy splitting from breath work as some kinds of attacks on people's reflexes and nervous systems into locks, throws, and submissions but at a level rarely seen - if ever - so far.

Rob
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:21 PM   #49
Dan Austin
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
You're joking, right? That's Luis Gutierrez of So-Flo Jiu-Jitsu, an SBGi coach. This has f@#&-all to do with Aikido. He is demonstrating the use of a deep underhook, which the SBGi group learned from Randy Couture. This is MMA applied to streetfighting, which is what SBGi does. Granted this will work if you adopt it for Aikido (and I would strongly recommend people interested in things that work do) but then it becomes increasingly pointless to claim the Aikido label.

What the OP has discovered is that standard Aikido techniques are low-percentage. Perhaps if Ueshiba were alive today he would modify the syllabus, but it is very outdated. If the OP's goal is to teach self-defense, he owes it to future students to learn high-percentage modern techniques. SBGi is a good choice.
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:18 PM   #50
Ryan Sanford
Dojo: Northwest Aikido
Location: Oregon
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Re: The Topic I never Wanted To Post

Quote:
Dan Austin wrote: View Post
You're joking, right? That's Luis Gutierrez of So-Flo Jiu-Jitsu, an SBGi coach. This has f@#&-all to do with Aikido. He is demonstrating the use of a deep underhook, which the SBGi group learned from Randy Couture.
I dunno about you, but all I saw was someone doing irimi-nage.

"There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." - Aldous Huxley
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