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Old 07-10-2008, 01:17 PM   #276
Dewey
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Hi folks,

Before we start impressing upon such actions to such people (if we start doing so at all), I think people might want to wait until the verdict of the law is passed upon Clint. Despite all of the evidence given to us by the Helena Independent Record, he has not, to my knowledge, been convicted of any crimes.

Please note that I in no way condone the type of actions reported to us by the Helena Independent Record that Clint may have taken. However, I need to make sure that this thread nor this website does not turn into any sort of place for "character assassination." According to the law, Clint is still innocent until proven guilty.

The case to which you are referring is an interesting one. I believe that all charges were dropped against the person in question, but the person's rank was still revoked.

Best regards,

-- Jun
I sincerely apologize, Jun...and to all, for my comment. This issue hits a bit too close to home for me (see my earlier posts in this thread)...and it just got the better of me. I formally retract my statement.

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Um, yeah, what Jun said. Particularly in light of the other case cited. Certainly it doesn't look at all good for Clint George, but a damning appearance is still not the same as guilt.
Yes, Mary, you're right. I find myself jumping to conclusions when I shouldn't. Again, my apologies to all.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:20 PM   #277
Michael Hackett
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Meeting privately with your alleged victim several times while out on bail is often referred to by the legal community as "felony stupid"!

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:23 PM   #278
Marc Kupper
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

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Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Thanks for the info, Benjamin.
Yet, somehow, that isn't the slightest bit reassuring.

And so as not to come across as a simple contrarian ( for I am a complicated contrarian), one can't simply trust what they read. And since we aren't, as an online community, advocating any kind of action toward the defendant, legally or professionally, it is reasonable to discuss and consider all the information at hand. Including how aikido communities have delt with this before, what are potential legal ramifications, what kind of pro-active moves we can make in our own homes and dojos, how to promote aiko (loving protection) in our members, and how we feel when this topic comes up.

This kind of conversation reassures me.
The reassuring to me part is that we don't have this conversation very often. For the most part it seems either potential trouble sources are spotted and weeded out and/or that they are very rare to start with. One troubling aspect is that it seems with each of the dojo related abuse situations I've heard about that there were long standing situations that at least made people uncomfortable. People may not have known exactly what was happening but could tell that something was amiss. Adults are usually better at locating a third party, aikiweb's anonymous forum comes to mind, to at least sound out "does this seem right?" Children and teenagers seem to have or know of fewer resources. I'll have to ask around with some friends who'd know about this sort of thing about if there are things we can do to improve the chances of a child or adult coming forward with their concerns while also not triggering Salem style witch hunts.

Marc
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:24 PM   #279
aikidoc
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Um, yeah, what Jun said. Particularly in light of the other case cited. Certainly it doesn't look at all good for Clint George, but a damning appearance is still not the same as guilt.
Very true. However, being caught in her presence again without other adult supervision definitely shows concern about a lack of judgement. Not a good move.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:29 AM   #280
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

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Marc Kupper wrote: View Post
The reassuring to me part is that we don't have this conversation very often. For the most part it seems either potential trouble sources are spotted and weeded out and/or that they are very rare to start with. One troubling aspect is that it seems with each of the dojo related abuse situations I've heard about that there were long standing situations that at least made people uncomfortable. People may not have known exactly what was happening but could tell that something was amiss. Adults are usually better at locating a third party, aikiweb's anonymous forum comes to mind, to at least sound out "does this seem right?" Children and teenagers seem to have or know of fewer resources. I'll have to ask around with some friends who'd know about this sort of thing about if there are things we can do to improve the chances of a child or adult coming forward with their concerns while also not triggering Salem style witch hunts.

Marc
I appreciate your thoughts and post.
Your springing off of the word, reassuring, is poetically reasonable but out of previous context. No biggie.

In my classes I outline for students who to go to when having uncomfortable situations with dojo members. This is includes someone other than me if they are having a problem when it comes to me. Helps everybody stay clean.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:19 PM   #281
Dan Rubin
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Clint George has lost his dojo and his reputation. I'm guessing that, for him, that is everything. Now he's met several times with the same victim, in the same community, in public; self-destructive behavior, certainly.

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Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Meeting privately with your alleged victim several times while out on bail is often referred to by the legal community as "felony stupid"!
It's only "felony stupid" if you don't want to be caught.
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:51 PM   #282
Michael Hackett
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Dan,

Are you suggesting that this was a figurative suicide by cop? You think he wanted to get caught? I've certainly seen stranger behavior.

Michael
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:03 PM   #283
Dan Rubin
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Michael

That is my thought, that he wants to be stopped and he wants to be punished, and that if the State won't do it soon, he might do it to himself.

This is just conjecture on my part. I have no expertise in sex crimes and I don't know Clint George, but, like you, I've seen plenty of self-destructive behavior that's dismissed as stupidity.

Dan
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:07 PM   #284
Ellis Amdur
 
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Felony Stupid

As always, the caveat. I am not commenting specifically on C. George's reported/alleged behavior.
The nature of some perpetrators is astonishing, and can include a number of components.
1. Compulsiveness - for some, the behavior seems to fall in the obsessive-compulsive spectrum. Consider someone who has a compulsion to cleanse their hands from the bacteria they are convinced must be on their hands. Despite evidence to the contrary - and DESPITE knowing it is not true, they will washing their hands over and over until they've scrubbed the skin off. For some individuals, the desire for the victim-chosen sexual activity - is so compelling and it's deprivation so anxiety producing that they will pursue the activity despite the consequences.
2. Some research shows that many molestors of children could be termed "sectored sociopaths." What I mean by this is that within the realm of molestation of children, they function just like a psychopath (different word, same meaning), even though, unlike the classic sociopath, this doesn't "leak" out in the rest of their lives. One hallmark of this is called "duping delight." what this means is that the biggest thrill is doing the crime under other's eyes. Examples are a man - a church youth leader - who successfully molested a child in the back seat of the car that the parents were driving. Another is a man who successfully molested a child in the waiting room of a court while waiting for his sentencing for a sex crime. There is the added delight of being so powerful that one can manipulate the victim, once again, under everyone's eyes. "I can make him/her do whatever I want."
Coupled is duping delight is the sociopath's grandiosity. Fundamentally narcissistic (the only thing that matters is me and I'm the most special person in the universe), the individual truly believes he's smart enough to get away with the crime, and others too stupid to catch him.
I think of a case I was involved in - a father molested his daughter from age two, the child disclosing at age four. he terrorized her. (Long story, details unnecessary). During his first interview with the detectives, he said, "You know, all these clothes we have on are barriers. You with your suits and guns - it puts you at a distance from me. Tell you what - we should take off all our clothes and do this naked." BTW - he was not successfully convicted, though all parental rights, at least, were terminated.
So, in essence, you have several poles. "I gotta have it." to "I CAN have it."
And the terrible truth is that the success rate is high enough that the grandiosity and confidence is merited. The skilled perp is able to manipulate the child so that he or she "volunteers" more contact - using a variety of strategies.
Concluding caveat - compulsive behavior and sociopathy are NOT diminished capacity. Such traits cannot and should not be considered "illnesses" that make the person not responsible for what they do.
Final component - stalking. there are various types of stalkers. Sociopaths, who do it for the pleasure of the terror they create - (rare, but real). Relational - inadequate persons who cannot accept that the person broke off with them, because they conceive of themselves only in context of that relationship Psychotic - a delusion that the person is their Obsessional - the person fixates on another person, and any evidence to the contrary is discounted or ignored. Apparently, the obsessive stalker has many of the same components of their brain activated that an animal does in stalking - fixed attention, and ignoring of extraneous details that would distract from the hunt. (Cats, for example, are functionally deaf at the moment of final stalk before attack. The brain shuts off the auditory nerves).

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Old 07-11-2008, 06:23 PM   #285
lifeafter2am
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Ellis,

I would like to see your research to show that some molesters fall into the obsessive-compulsive spectrum? Is there research to support this case or is this mearly conjecture on your part? While this seems interesting I have not seen any research in this area.

Also, and this is just personal, I hate the terms psychopath and sociopath .... I have yet to see any professional association (APA etc) come out with any literature that operationally defines these terms. Could you point me in a direction to show me otherwise?



(FYI, I am doing my Thesis work right now for my PhD in Psychology, hence my research focus)

"The mind is everything. What you think you become." - Siddhattha Gotama Buddha
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:57 PM   #286
Ellis Amdur
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

"seems to fall..." in other words, looks like. I want to be clear that I am not equating OCD - the clinical dx - with the compulsive behaviors of some sexual predators." However, I would recommend the work of Anna Salter in this area. Listed on the book list on my website.
I, on the other hand, LOVE the term psychopath, because the equivocations of Anti-social personality disorder do not do justice whatsoever to the behaviors of the individuals. The APA is at least a decade behind current research. It is my understanding that the next version of the DSM will have a psychopathic subset to anti-social personality disorder (this latter term is, in essence, a criminal - whereas the psychopath, be they the serial killer or the corporate raider like Ken Lay, is something quite different).

I'm on the road, so don't have my library close at hand. But the best work on psychopaths is that of Robert Hare. Hare is able to show, thru a fascinating exam with a PET scan a brain organization in children as young as four years old that is uniquely psychopathic (in short, the individual remains in the visual cortex, no matter how violent or pathological the images they are exposed to, whereas the non-psychopath shifts to limbic system reactivity when exposes to horrible images).
The terms psychopath and sociopath reflect a debate of nature vs. nurture, where the reality is that it is both. So the terms, for most, are synonymous. The controversial Lykken, however, uses psychopath for those who seem born that way, and sociopath for those primarily a product of a pathological culture/environment.
P.S. This is a brief response to your questions. The thread could easily get hijacked - so if you would like more discussion in this vein, feel free to PM

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Old 07-11-2008, 07:50 PM   #287
lifeafter2am
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
"seems to fall..." in other words, looks like. I want to be clear that I am not equating OCD - the clinical dx - with the compulsive behaviors of some sexual predators." However, I would recommend the work of Anna Salter in this area. Listed on the book list on my website.
I, on the other hand, LOVE the term psychopath, because the equivocations of Anti-social personality disorder do not do justice whatsoever to the behaviors of the individuals. The APA is at least a decade behind current research. It is my understanding that the next version of the DSM will have a psychopathic subset to anti-social personality disorder (this latter term is, in essence, a criminal - whereas the psychopath, be they the serial killer or the corporate raider like Ken Lay, is something quite different).

I'm on the road, so don't have my library close at hand. But the best work on psychopaths is that of Robert Hare. Hare is able to show, thru a fascinating exam with a PET scan a brain organization in children as young as four years old that is uniquely psychopathic (in short, the individual remains in the visual cortex, no matter how violent or pathological the images they are exposed to, whereas the non-psychopath shifts to limbic system reactivity when exposes to horrible images).
The terms psychopath and sociopath reflect a debate of nature vs. nurture, where the reality is that it is both. So the terms, for most, are synonymous. The controversial Lykken, however, uses psychopath for those who seem born that way, and sociopath for those primarily a product of a pathological culture/environment.
P.S. This is a brief response to your questions. The thread could easily get hijacked - so if you would like more discussion in this vein, feel free to PM
PM Sent!

"The mind is everything. What you think you become." - Siddhattha Gotama Buddha
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:35 PM   #288
Buck
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Among the many communicative exchanges we have with people through out our lives at different places, different time periods, under a myriad of situations and conditions we hear but often don't listen. Because we don't listen we lose the ability to communicate effectively, we lose our awareness to communicate. We lose focus and all the details and all the senses are ignored and we pull into to listen to our internal thoughts shuting off the external world. We block out what we are hearing because we are not interested, or a word is said the hurls us into that space of conscience, or it takes us by surprise. We don't pick up one subtle clues buried in the conversation, the body language or gestures that help us communicate better. We zone out.

How long we zone out on something carring on with our own internal dialog when we should really be paying attention varies, but what is really more of a concern is when purposely don't want to communicate and choose to zone out ignoring the clues and the gestures. When we are awaken out of our slumber we are shock, or it is business as usual we listen for a moment to check if we are able to fall back into our slumber.

Clint George isn't the only guilty one here.

Concerning the victim, a young girl who has some that listens, who (as she interprets) pays attention, communicates, offers to her (as she sees it) things she is lacking that she should be getting else where, like feeling safe, being protected, taken seriously, loved. That is a strong bonding agent to get what you need emotionally if you are lacking it. There is too many to count ways and reasons for it happening. When such a bond is formed, and it is usually an normally in an acceptable way like a person her initial age as a first crush or love it is very powerful, so powerful many incidences (normal that it) some people go to there grave still crushing, still loving that first person. Humans are suspectable to first impressions made upon them for better or worse, for survival too. These impressions can be things like a first love or relationship or a tragic event, or image etc. And if we see it as positive impression we cling it, we see it out, at all costs, either blind to all the signs if it is negative, or have not developed enough to know what the signs are.

If we are not developed enough to understand the dynamic that a negative impression exists often masked in a positive impression we then are more vulnerable misinterpreting the situation or the dynamic at a face value positive when the negative impression is misleading, masked in as a positive impression. The need is so great for the positive experience which is held up as a screen, and if held up over a long period of time, it is almost impossible in a short period of time to correct the situation.

What is most troubling. The individual(s) who put up bond- more than likely out of hope, and for innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial, convinced out of good will- find out guilt the hard way. How devastating to those individuals.

What I think would be most devastating to Clint George would be the young girl realizing through the result of maturity realizes that she too has been had, and moves on to truly gets what she needs and deserves in a healthy manner. That she sees that the flame she is drawn to is deadly and it isn't the type of light she should be drawn too.

Sadly it seems she has no one to guide her, or no one strong enough to prevent her from meeting Clint George.

Agreed, if religions of thousands of years old practice can't do it, turn evil into good, what makes us think Aikido can do it. There is no psychological evaluation process from the start in Aikido to i.d. those who will are not good people, a who are- in some cases you can tell of the bat those who are not decent people, but those like Clint George are much tougher to i.d. they work to gain everyone's trust, and respect. Therefore, can they work undetected, unnoticed, and in secrecy. This is what makes it more painful.

Last edited by Buck : 07-11-2008 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:15 AM   #289
Marc Kupper
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Clint George isn't the only guilty one here.
I strongly disagree with that. When it comes to adult/child relationships the responsibility is *very* much on the adult and even more so when the adult is in a position of authority such as a martial arts instructor.
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:06 AM   #290
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

You're right. I should have explained that better. If the young girl is going back to meet him, no blame on her like I explained already, it shows others not her who are co- guilty by enabling the tragic situation to continue. She has been greatly impressed and fooled into thinking/feeling such a relationship is true, real, and pure. It is something she believes is right. She does need that, she needs the right impression and proper resulting relationship having her needs, properly fulfilled and not by someone unbalanced 4-5 times her age. Someone isn't properly attending to make sure that young girl moves to the understanding the situation where Clint George took advantage and exploited her is extremely wrong. If she is still having contact with Clint George someone is guilty as well.
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:31 PM   #291
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Really, at this point I can't see how anyone can be neutral or give the benefit of doubt to Clint George. My previous criticism of the media being inaccurate at the start imply guilt still stand, but the recent article even in its inaccuracy, it can't be completely off base. There is some pretty heavy truth to the article. I am waiting for the trial to take place to get a accurate and complete picture, before I take a final stand.

It is hard to watch someone who presented themselves in a likable and positive manner and yet have a whole otherside to them.

Clint George isn't the only guilty one, like those who are enablers to the crime. Those people who never cared to pick up on the clues and the signs of what was happening, those who saw and did nothing, but ignore the situation because of who he was etc. All of those who assisted him directly and indirectly to continue his exploits of a innocent child are guilty.

The young child isn't the only victim. There are those who he hide from and they became victims too. The ones he fooled well, the ones he manipulated and exploited too. The ones who trusted him out of their good nature and love. Clint George by seeing the child after he was told not to indicates his single disregarding focus for anyone but himself and his own needs.

He didn't get Aikido, he lied about it. He pretended and fool those close to him, those who love and respected him. He learned nothing from Aikido, and he taught nothing to his students but a lie. I will say he defrauded many. I will not get into what he has done to his family.

Last edited by Buck : 07-12-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:06 AM   #292
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
The case to which you are referring is an interesting one. I believe that all charges were dropped against the person in question, but the person's rank was still revoked.

Best regards,

-- Jun
Actually, no charges were filed. The parents of two girls who had been molested went to the police when they found out what had happened. It was two years, if I remember correctly, after the incidents in question. That fact, coupled with the fact that the two girls were friends caused the police to hesitate about filing charges because they didn't feel the case was strong enough.

When the Aikido community was contacted by the parents, a meeting was held to discuss things and it turned out that there were a number of other victims, all mutually unaware of each other. These abuses had gone on for ten years. Several times he had been found out, but in each case he had been able to talk his way out by admitting to a momentary lapse and promising that nothing like it would ever happen again. His lofty position as the senior American student of one of Aikido's great Sensei's caused people to cut him slack which they never would have done for someone else.

So the perpetrator had his Aikido career ruined but did not do jail time and now works for a corporation which gives him opportunity to travel overseas. I heard he especially like the trips to Thailand...

George S. Ledyard
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:54 AM   #293
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Perfect post which goes a long way to prove the maxim (of my own creation) "Stupidity runs in circles"

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Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Really, at this point I can't see how anyone can be neutral or give the benefit of doubt to Clint George.
"...Anyone...?" It's called patience and the ability to separate oneself from the emotional attachment to judging another when it is not our job to do so.

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Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
...I am waiting for the trial to take place to get a accurate and complete picture, before I take a final stand.
Apparently, not.

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
It is hard to watch someone who presented themselves in a likable and positive manner and yet have a whole other side to them.
Who do you think you know well enough to say that everyone (unlike yourself, of course) is any different?

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Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Clint George isn't the only guilty one...
You have proved yourself absolutely correct!

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
The ones he fooled well, the ones he manipulated and exploited too. The ones who trusted him out of their good nature and love. Clint George by seeing the child after he was told not to indicates his single disregarding focus for anyone but himself and his own needs.
You seem very attached. Unhealthily so, in fact.

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
He didn't get Aikido, he lied about it. He pretended and fool those close to him, those who love and respected him. He learned nothing from Aikido, and he taught nothing to his students but a lie. I will say he defrauded many. I will not get into what he has done to his family.
...all I can say is, "WOW!" Perhaps, you should turn in your belt, and dogi and give up martial arts immediately. I do believe there is an opening in the priesthood now that Warren Jeffs is otherwise, detained. The world needs another prophet right about now, given how far from perfect we all are.

Oh, by the way... what was it that you learned from Aikido, again? Better yet, "From who have you been learning Aikido?

.

I no longer participate in or read the discussion forums here on AikiWeb due to the unfair and uneven treatment of people by the owner/administrator.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:08 AM   #294
akiy
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Hi folks,

Let's please stay away from personal discussions. Thank you.

-- Jun

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Old 07-14-2008, 11:08 AM   #295
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

I'm sorry Ledyard Sensei, but I would like to address some points with what you just posted. Just to let you know, for that past 2.5 years I have been working at a law firm that specializes in representing childhood victims of sexual abuse - so I'm just not pulling my comments from out of the air.

I'm also stating this with the usual caveats...opinion is being expressed, but not legal opinion. All facts referenced are alleged facts and I am not referring to the current person at the topic of this thread because I do not know all the facts in this current case. (I can only guess based upon my experience though.) (But Jun, I ask that you keep this comment in this thread.)

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Actually, no charges were filed. The parents of two girls who had been molested went to the police when they found out what had happened. It was two years, if I remember correctly, after the incidents in question. That fact, coupled with the fact that the two girls were friends caused the police to hesitate about filing charges because they didn't feel the case was strong enough.
Two years from the time of incident? That's no big deal actually. I don't think that would have been beyond the statute of limitations -- even in criminal law. And in many states, the statute of limitaitons is tolled until three years AFTER the victim reaches the age of majority - 18 years old. Depending on the year the two girls came forward, this may have been the case.

And, just because the police didn't file a report doesn't mean the abuse didn't happen. The police didn't file a report because they called into question the girls credibility. However, there should not have been a problem with their credibility as I discuss in my next comment.

Quote:
When the Aikido community was contacted by the parents, a meeting was held to discuss things and it turned out that there were a number of other victims, all mutually unaware of each other. These abuses had gone on for ten years. Several times he had been found out, but in each case he had been able to talk his way out by admitting to a momentary lapse and promising that nothing like it would ever happen again.
Since members of the aikido community had found out several times over the previous 10 years they knew about the pattern of behaviour and when "these two girls" came forward the aikido community should have known better and charges should have been filed. They had the responsibility to report this known behavior to the police that this has happened before -- several times. Those facts in addition to the two girls coming foward should have given the police the grounds to file a report. It is truly unfortunate that a report was never filed.

I also feel this way for the following reasons -- I allege that since the school failed in its duties to protect these two girls and that because he has never been arrested or charged he is not on any sexual predator registries. And so as a result the community at large (not just the aikido community) is still not on notice that this particular person is a sexual predator. You see, the abuse can still happen. And given the repeat history, I am of the opinion that it most likely has and will happen again.

Quote:
His lofty position as the senior American student of one of Aikido's great Sensei's caused people to cut him slack which they never would have done for someone else.
This should be a lesson to us all -- that no one is beyond reproach and just because someone is a sensei, priest, teacher -- well known or respected otherwise they should not be cut some slack.

Do you realize that the perpetrators are using this trust against you? That the trust that was violated was not just the trust between the student and the sensei but the sensei and the dojo; the sensei and his aikido organization; and the sensei and the greater aikido community.

Quote:
So the perpetrator had his Aikido career ruined but did not do jail time and now works for a corporation which gives him opportunity to travel overseas. I heard he especially like the trips to Thailand...
I feel no sympathy for the perpetrator's aikido career, especially when people in his community KNEW ABOUT IT for over ten years. And these were not false claims because these claims were apparently validated when he admitted to it and promised not to do it again. Other people did not ruin it. The several victims who came forward over a ten year period did not ruin it. The "two girls" who came forward did not ruin it. Those who kicked him out of his organization did not ruin it. He did that to himself.

The lives that are ruined are the victims. Now, they will suffer and have to seek out psychological treatment for the rest of their lives. Some suffer so badly that they commit suicide or worse continue the cycle of violence and become abusers themselves - emotional, physical and, yes, sexual.

***********

Please folks, I implore you, no sensei, teacher, instructor, assistant instructor, Priest, Pastor, Minister, Rabbi, Imam, Monk, yogi, guru, other spiritual leaders, youth group leader, or any person in good standing in any community is beyond reproach.

Sexual Abusers are not creepy looking monsters lurking in dark allies. Unfortunately, they lurk in your churches, schools and dojos posing as the really nice priest that comes to your house for dinner, as the teacher that all the kids love and as the well-respected sensei of the of the dojo.

Just like self-defense -- you just have to be vigilant and aware not paranoid. Trust your instincts, if you think something "not right" is going on then pay attention and ask some questions. If you know something is wrong notify someone in authority (at the dojo, call an abuse hot line, call dept. children and families and call law enforcement). And finally, if a student/child comes forward please do not dismiss them. Investigate and do what needs to be done.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:49 PM   #296
Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote: View Post
Please folks, I implore you, no sensei, teacher, instructor, assistant instructor, Priest, Pastor, Minister, Rabbi, Imam, Monk, yogi, guru, other spiritual leaders, youth group leader, or any person in good standing in any community is beyond reproach.

Sexual Abusers are not creepy looking monsters lurking in dark allies. Unfortunately, they lurk in your churches, schools and dojos posing as the really nice priest that comes to your house for dinner, as the teacher that all the kids love and as the well-respected sensei of the of the dojo.

Just like self-defense -- you just have to be vigilant and aware not paranoid. Trust your instincts, if you think something "not right" is going on then pay attention and ask some questions. If you know something is wrong notify someone in authority (at the dojo, call an abuse hot line, call dept. children and families and call law enforcement). And finally, if a student/child comes forward please do not dismiss them. Investigate and do what needs to be done.
Worth repeating
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:35 PM   #297
BKeesler
Dojo: Westcoast Aikido
Location: Bradenton Fl
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Lets look at this from a perspective I have to yet to see posted.. and that is of a parent. First off I am not a learned scholar, I don't have multiple PhD's after my name hell I'm not even well read. What I am though is a devoted loving caring father of 4 three girls and boy, ages 16,12,4,17months respectively. So when someone posts that it is presumably more acceptable)for a 40yr old man to seduce and coerce a 16yr old child into a sexual relationship than a 13yr old makes me want to vomit! ("if she were 16 would we even be talking about this"God forbid if this were to happen to one of my children, they would have to lock me up for his safety. I don't know this man nor do I care to, I don't care if he was gods gift to the martial arts world, the president of the united states, or found the cure for cancer by his very actions both prior to his arrest and after are inexcusable and haneous. By his own admission he sexually assaulted this girl by fondling her and this is reprehensable behavior. What's sad is just how common this is, its sad that a show like To Catch a Predator could be run every day 365 and not have a rerun and what's worse is that scum bags in Thailand and Asia black-market children to sick bastards and dont't think twice about it. Do I sound outraged to you? Well I am and so should you! If you have kids when you tuck them in to bed tonight and give them a kiss and let them know that they are safe that mommy and daddy's here imagine what it would be like if what happened to this girl and millions of other girls and boys around the world every day happened to your loved one. I bet you would want to rip his still beating heart from his chest and if you don't then shame on you. I am certain that this will anger many of you so be it I don't really care. what is sad is that your anger and outrage should be pointed at those that prey on children maybe not yours but your cousins, your sisters/brothers, hell even your best friends kids because they are out there. They are on the net, in your stores, churches,dojos they are the ones closest to you and your child. Be alert and be careful and above all watch over your children like their life depends on it because it does.

The record speaks for it self:

On Saturday, a search warrant of George’s Helena home was executed. His phone and computer were seized.

Police found 85 emails exchanged between the two.


The content of the emails and times they are being written related to the ages of the individuals involved did appear to be inappropriate,” court documents note.

During an interview Saturday, George told police that the relationship with his student of two years started with hugging and “petting” and had progressed in the last three months, the documents say. The two began inappropriately touching each other through their clothes, he told police

Say it again 85EMAILS I dont email my own kids that much or even my wife of 18 yrs. Remember when you first started dating your significant other.............HMMM sounds about right doesnt it

And again the legal documents presented before the judge have him admiting to inappropriately touching each other through their clothes which we all know would have only escalted had he not been arrested.

My daddy always told me "Son now matter how its dressed if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck its a duck"!

Last edited by BKeesler : 07-22-2008 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:55 PM   #298
Massimo Maddaloni
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Well, fellows aikidoka, do a search for:

aikido
missoula
George
girl

There are news. There's no such a thing as too much zanshin. Regards
Massimo Maddaloni
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:13 PM   #299
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Massimo Maddaloni wrote: View Post
Well, fellows aikidoka, do a search for:

aikido
missoula
George
girl

There are news. There's no such a thing as too much zanshin. Regards
Massimo Maddaloni
I believe this is the link that was referenced above.

http://www.helenair.com/articles/200...709_aikido.txt

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:19 PM   #300
Marc Kupper
Dojo: Aikido of Diablo Valley / ASU
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 88
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Does anyone know when this will go to court? When will someone know the outcome of the case?

Is this case being covered by the local media?
It's my experience that most criminal arrests don't seem get followed up on by the news unless there's one or more individuals agitating to the press.

Some courts have on-line calendars and so you may want to look into if the Helena area courts have such a thing. For example http://www.mtd.uscourts.gov/calendar.htm but Clint George is not listed (that calendar does not seem to support scanning the past/future). That may not be the right court or George's case is not in the time-window that's visible.

I see that Montana has a prisoner locator at http://app.mt.gov/conweb/ and there's a Clinton Percy George jailed for larceny, theft, other state from 19-FEB-82 to 12-APR-87. I have no idea if this is the same person.
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