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Old 05-04-2008, 01:51 PM   #251
Buck
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Because of the sensitivity and its impact of a subject of this kind where an adult targets a child for a relationship. And because, I read what I said in quotes and I don't like how it sounds I want to put it in better words.

In better words, I feel girls who are targeted by manipulator abusers are tricked into compliance by the abuser. If a young girl is being manipulated and "groomed" for abuse because they are still growing and developing emotionally, and susceptible emotionally to "grooming" might benefit from understanding that no matter what someone says having a relationship with an older man is wrong for them and will be damaging. If there is trouble at home for such a young girl there are better and safe ways to get what they need then being tricked by some older man to manipulate them into something completely wrong, completely unacceptable for them as young girls.

I am not fooling myself in thinking any preteen or young teen would be reading this thread in Aikido or not. But maybe someone close to them is and will help them avoid a terrible situation in or not in Aikido.

1. There is no reason for a kid being close, spending special time with a Sensei. As much as some Aikido dojos have a family or friendly atmosphere it couldn't include the sensei or others to have close contact with kids, or private/individual contact or attention. No more then what they get in a normal and proper school class room instructional contact. A sensei should never be alone with a child. There should not be a special emotional relationship between kids and the sensei; no big brother/sister or mother/father figure.I think the sensei should never go beyond these types of boundaries. It is for their safety and professionalism. It keeps kids from those who want to target them for abuse. I judge a good sensei who knows the boundaries and doesn't cross them.

2. Parents and dojo community if they notice anything odd should step up to the plate and enforce rules/boundaries that limit the contact a sensei has with a child, and outlines professional behavior of the sensei. If red flages go up the parents and dojo community has a responsibility to intervene.

A friend of mine who studied another art was faced with finding out a high ranking person from another dojo had a sexually a minor during a kumite tournament that her dojo was hosting. Being a kyu rank and being young herself at the time she went to the assistant sensei of her dojo (a Japanese adult who had nothing to do with the incident), and explained the situation. She was told not to say anything to anyone or bring it to the attention of the sensei because it would upset the sensei and the tournament.

Being conditioned to the dojo's protocol and culture, she complied, but was greatly upset. As young as she was, she didn't want to upset the apple cart and have it on her shoulders. That is the feeling she got from the assistant sensei. She couldn't keep that knowledge to herself. She told a few other students(young) the situation and what she was told. The too kept silent. They were young and feared authority. She regretted not telling the sensei, a parent or calling the police.

Years later when she retold the story to a group of us, she wept in guilt. As far as she knows the abuser got away with it. She feels that if she would have said something he wouldn't have had gotten away with it. She feels even after all these years a victim is out there in pain, without justice because she didn't tell someone.


3. Dojo education on how abusers operate and manipulate. Learn the signs. Know what action to take. Know how to prevent and stop abusers. Take the responsibility and spread the word. Education can help avoid a bad dojo as well. Prevention and avoidance is the point.

Partly why abusers get way with what they do is because of silence when the red flags go up. If people are not vigilant, set rules, don't get involved when those flags go up they have abandon their morality and responsibility. No matter how close or important the abuser is. They are making it easy for an abuser if they don't put boundaries and rules in place and take them seriously. It doesn't have to be the target's parents who are the only ones who abandon a child to an abuser.


The dojo might be owned and run by the sensei, it doesn't mean they have a blank check to act unlawfully, immorally, or unethically. For that fact, apply it to anyone else whose a part of the dojo no matter what the rank or involvement.

It isn't hard make a dojo a safe place for everyone and should be a priority of the sensei. It is easy when the dojo comes together and puts up obstacles, boundaries, rules to insure the dojo is a place which will keep abusers out of the dojo. We all have an obligation of everyone to protect children as parents or members of the dojo. By not supporting the means they use to attract and abuse a child by knowing the signs of an abuser to prevent harm, no child in a dojo should be abused. Awareness, education, and vigilance will avoid Hindsight 20/20. A hard place to be when it is too late, a lesson I learned from my friend.

Last edited by Buck : 05-04-2008 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:06 PM   #252
Buck
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

There is a whole bunch of energy put it to the aftermath of the situation of abuse.

It might be helpful to put out info that will help avoid and prevent, expose a pedophile. Oh yea, and help people identify what type of child a pedophile is looking for in a complete info package.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:47 PM   #253
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
It might be helpful to put out info that will help avoid and prevent, expose a pedophile. Oh yea, and help people identify what type of child a pedophile is looking for in a complete info package.
Good luck.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:23 AM   #254
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
Despite this, from what I have read, "compensated dating" (enjo kosai) between school-age girls and older men is quite common in Japan. Harsher forms of teenage prostitution also exist in in India and elsewhere in Asia.
Child prostitution is in the West as well:

U.S. 'sex culture' driving child prostitution


UK 'has 5,000 child prostitutes'

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 05-05-2008, 08:21 AM   #255
Charles
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Good luck.
It's easier than you might think. When I'm not on the mat I'm a youth worker in my Church. In order to work with any child or youth we have to undergo a background check and a day's worth of training around this issue. And the training has to be re-done every five years.

We joke that the training is about how to not get caught and I've been through good sessions and bad. But the first was very good and helpful. Aside from the rules of the road we were taught some things to look for in both the victimizer and the victim. And we were taught how to comply with the required reporting laws in our state.

It was all very helpful but the single most important part is that no adult should be left alone with an un-related child.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:20 AM   #256
lbb
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Corky Quakenbush wrote: View Post
I agree with you Mary that probably no child of 13 has the life experience to enter into an informed relationship with an adult. They need to be protected by whatever means we can afford them.
Actually, that wasn't what I said. I said that the inability to give informed consent is the rationale behind age of consent laws. This may sound like a picking of nits, but it isn't.
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:10 PM   #257
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

I found this interesting:
http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/may1998/kids-m16.shtml
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:38 PM   #258
reisler
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:

It was all very helpful but the single most important part is that no adult should be left alone with an un-related child.
or even (sometimes) related......

Roberta
Aikido - a kinder, gentler can o' Whoop Ass.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:04 PM   #259
Marc Kupper
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

It appears Clint George still has issues with setting and recognizing boundaries. See http://www.helenair.com/articles/200...709_aikido.txt

The article says he used to own Last Chance Aikido implying it's been turned over to others.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:09 PM   #260
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Innocence Lost. On many accounts.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:43 PM   #261
B.J.M.
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Wow.

I met Mr. George in Shingu, Japan when my previous teacher was doing research for a book on O-Sensei.

Nice guy.

It is heart breaking to hear this though. It is painfully obvious that Mr. George needs to be seeing a professional and immediately. He needs serious assistance.
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Old 07-09-2008, 04:07 PM   #262
Keith Larman
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Astounding. That about puts the last nail in that coffin... Gonna be really hard for him to put on any defense for the first charges he's out on bond for now.

Sad, sad, sad.

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Old 07-09-2008, 08:46 PM   #263
dragonteeth
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Okay, I have to ask the stupid question. Since the initial arrest, the girl has had contact with him not once, not twice, but four times. Where in the name of Heaven are her parents? Of all the times in the world to become overprotective, having a child in this situation with the accused abuser out on bond is definitely the right time!
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:03 AM   #264
Mark Uttech
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Good grief!

In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:14 AM   #265
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Lori Snidow wrote: View Post
Okay, I have to ask the stupid question. Since the initial arrest, the girl has had contact with him not once, not twice, but four times. Where in the name of Heaven are her parents? Of all the times in the world to become overprotective, having a child in this situation with the accused abuser out on bond is definitely the right time!
I hear you....and having raised 2 female offspring... I know that 13 can be a difficult age to know where your children are at every moment. Teenagers can be very determined to live their own will.

Mary
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:21 AM   #266
aikidoc
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

A very concerning situation to say the least. Sad. It makes one wonder if there are other casualties that we do not know about. Has this been the only incident?
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:44 AM   #267
Dewey
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

It is my sincere hope that those active members of this forum who happen to have the ear of any Aikikai shihans here in the US to impress upon them the urgency of "suggesting" to Hombu Dojo to take the important & necessary gesture of formally revoking Clint George's rank. I believe Saito Sensei did as such with another individual some years ago under very similar circumstances. Just my opinion.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:01 AM   #268
akiy
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Hi folks,
Quote:
Brian Dewey wrote: View Post
It is my sincere hope that those active members of this forum who happen to have the ear of any Aikikai shihans here in the US to impress upon them the urgency of "suggesting" to Hombu Dojo to take the important & necessary gesture of formally revoking Clint George's rank.
Before we start impressing upon such actions to such people (if we start doing so at all), I think people might want to wait until the verdict of the law is passed upon Clint. Despite all of the evidence given to us by the Helena Independent Record, he has not, to my knowledge, been convicted of any crimes.

Please note that I in no way condone the type of actions reported to us by the Helena Independent Record that Clint may have taken. However, I need to make sure that this thread nor this website does not turn into any sort of place for "character assassination." According to the law, Clint is still innocent until proven guilty.
Quote:
Brian Dewey wrote: View Post
I believe Saito Sensei did as such with another individual some years ago under very similar circumstances. Just my opinion.
The case to which you are referring is an interesting one. I believe that all charges were dropped against the person in question, but the person's rank was still revoked.

Best regards,

-- Jun

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Old 07-10-2008, 09:59 AM   #269
lbb
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Um, yeah, what Jun said. Particularly in light of the other case cited. Certainly it doesn't look at all good for Clint George, but a damning appearance is still not the same as guilt.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:00 AM   #270
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Not to make the situation more complicated, but as someone who lived in Helena for 18 years, I can assure everyone here that the Helena Independant Record is something of an inside joke to Helena residents. Even though it is the city paper, it is held in the lowest regard as a source of factual and/or well researched information.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:08 AM   #271
Keith Larman
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote: View Post
Not to make the situation more complicated, but as someone who lived in Helena for 18 years, I can assure everyone here that the Helena Independant Record is something of an inside joke to Helena residents. Even though it is the city paper, it is held in the lowest regard as a source of factual and/or well researched information.
That may be the case, but this sort of reporting of easily researched factual information (person A arrested while on bond for offense B) is a gold mine for lawsuits. What they cover, how they choose to cover it (or not), etc. may all be a joke. But this sort of thing isn't often gotten wrong in even the worst of papers.

If you simply remove everything but factual statements we will have him arrested for felony sexual assault an additional time with the same victim.

And in the that other "famous" case, no, no verdicts were ever reached. But the allegations of sexual abuse went back for years with multiple victims. There were all sorts of legal reasons apparently why he was not convicted. However, there was no doubt left that he had a slew of victims in his wake...

Of course wait for any sort of thing like revocation/hamon until things work themselves out.

But it is still pretty damning at this point.

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Old 07-10-2008, 10:20 AM   #272
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote: View Post
Not to make the situation more complicated, but as someone who lived in Helena for 18 years, I can assure everyone here that the Helena Independant Record is something of an inside joke to Helena residents. Even though it is the city paper, it is held in the lowest regard as a source of factual and/or well researched information.
Thanks for the info, Benjamin.
Yet, somehow, that isn't the slightest bit reassuring.

And so as not to come across as a simple contrarian ( for I am a complicated contrarian), one can't simply trust what they read. And since we aren't, as an online community, advocating any kind of action toward the defendant, legally or professionally, it is reasonable to discuss and consider all the information at hand. Including how aikido communities have delt with this before, what are potential legal ramifications, what kind of pro-active moves we can make in our own homes and dojos, how to promote aiko (loving protection) in our members, and how we feel when this topic comes up.

This kind of conversation reassures me.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:33 AM   #273
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

I am not telling anyone what conclusions to draw, simply providing some potentially pertinent information.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:50 AM   #274
Aikido4all
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

What disturbs me the most -even more the the topic on hand- is what everyone is saying. What has given you all permission to make assumptions and justifications of Mr. George's actions? Especially since all the information you have has come from the Helena Independent Record! I have read over all the posts... all of them... and I have to say; I am fairly disappointed in the Aikido community and how they are handling this.
Revoking his rank?!? We all know how hard and how much sweat and tears we must put into our training. We all have experienced difficulties, mistakes, and... the mistakes of others. What would give us authority to talk -or think- of revoking rank? The love of Aikido is all that matters... not the rank the holder has.
Do not slam or look down upon Clint George. He has helped all of us in one way or another... even if it was just by sharing his love for Aikido. He supported you. Now, it is your turn to support him. I am not saying that his actions were right. But, lets not make opinions on his morale and motives, until we get actual, factual information.
---Rebecca
:::Failure is the key to success; each mistake teaches us something.- Morihei Ueshiba:::
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:06 PM   #275
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Very Disturbing news about Clint George

Quote:
What has given you all

a)permission to make

b)assumptions and

c)justifications of Mr. George's actions?

d)Especially since all the information you have has come from the Helena Independent Record!
a) No one. No permission required in a free society. I will speak my mind where I see fit.

b) I haven't made any. I've stuck with the facts presented, and where warrented, even changed my opinion about related issues.

c) I haven't made any. Those that did were appropriately taken to task, in my opinion. They had the right to speak, and we had the right to object.

d) Quite a few of us have been privy to other information. But you wouldn't know, since you didn't ask.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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