Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-11-2008, 01:05 PM   #51
Aiki1
 
Aiki1's Avatar
Dojo: ACE Aikido
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 346
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Hi Jonathan,
There is an old saying from Himalaya: Aikido ends when attacker touch you.
more I practice, more I tend to agree with that.
Very true. There's also an old saying: "Aikido ends Before attacker touches you...."

Even older saying: "Aikido.... never ends...."

Couldn't resist....

Quote:
Also Sugano sensei often has been laughing that I'm not doing aikido but jujutsu. So I started to carefully study time and space BEFORE contact.
Exactamundo.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 01:35 PM   #52
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Kuzushi is the key...anybody can resist just about anything we do...IF they don't have their balance taken.

I think one major problem in aikido today is the loss of kuzushi on contact with shite.

Best,
Ron
I'd say 'MAINTAIN kuzushi' is more difficult. In aikido we don't have special practice to speed up the entry into the technique (as judo folks have) so we need much more time to accomplish a technique. It is not difficult on static and compliant uke, but when uke is actively searching to reverse your technique, it becomes really interesting, but much more difficult.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 02:05 PM   #53
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

completely agreed. One of the issues I have with anything other than 1 or 2 step technique (when it comes to {gasp} "Real World" (TM) technique).

I'm getting a little better at getting that kuzushi at initial contact, due to some of the additional body training I'm doing, but maintaining that level of connection and kuzushi while moving through enter, turn, pivot, strike, manipulate the arm, cut for the throw is definately still a challenge. Especially with judoka!

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 02:37 PM   #54
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,817
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Obviously, you don't follow O sensei teaching. He never taugcht drills. He always did improviisation. Never had structured teaching system. Please read more S.Pranin search on aikido history, may be you will better understand what aikido is about.
Yeah, obviously I suck and I'm ignorant and I don't deserve to walk into an aikido dojo because I don't follow your party line exactly the way you're writing it.

If there's one thing I absolutely detest about aikido, it's people saying what they think and then claiming Ueshiba's authority to back them up, as if he was standing right behind them saying, "That's right, that's exactly what I said and exactly what I meant, you tell 'em."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 02:53 PM   #55
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance



In English no less! Hey Mr. S, appeal to authority aside, I need more drills! The bits you can keep...

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 02:53 PM   #56
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Yeah, obviously I suck and I'm ignorant and I don't deserve to walk into an aikido dojo because I don't follow your party line exactly the way you're writing it.

If there's one thing I absolutely detest about aikido, it's people saying what they think and then claiming Ueshiba's authority to back them up, as if he was standing right behind them saying, "That's right, that's exactly what I said and exactly what I meant, you tell 'em."
Hi Mary,
We will not discuss your emotions here. Please give some valid arguments against my arguments while staying on the topic!
I'm giving you the FACTS discovered by S.Praning during his research about life and work of the Founder.
I can backup my words with my physical practice, with big pleasure! while I'm some day in Boston, no prob. I'll call you even if you detest me.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 03:04 PM   #57
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,817
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Hi Mary,
We will not discuss your emotions here. Please give some valid arguments against my arguments while staying on the topic!
I'm giving you the FACTS discovered by S.Praning during his research about life and work of the Founder.
I can backup my words with my physical practice, with big pleasure! while I'm some day in Boston, no prob. I'll call you even if you detest me.
I think I'm supposed to be all intimidated by this "offer" to "demonstrate"...is that correct? I'll work on it, along with the host of other "emotions" that you think I should be having, instead of the ones I do have. I should get that all straightened out shortly after I get it through my thick head that you are, in fact, the boss of me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 03:24 PM   #58
Aiki1
 
Aiki1's Avatar
Dojo: ACE Aikido
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 346
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Obviously, you don't follow O sensei teaching. He never taugcht drills. He always did improviisation. Never had structured teaching system. Please read more S.Pranin search on aikido history, may be you will better understand what aikido is about.
No one, in my opinion, is an expert on O Sensei. Some people (not Stan Pranin, by the way, and that is not a dig at him) spent a lot of time with him at different periods of his life. They report very different things about training with him, depending when they did spend time with him. To believe and say the above is to be Very short-sighted, on many levels.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 03:29 PM   #59
Chris Lacey
 
Chris Lacey's Avatar
Dojo: Aiki Institute of Spokane Roshinkan Aikido Dojo
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 28
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Resistance doesn't seem to be an issue when people respect each other and try to blend on both a physical and psychological level. Without it, we can't find the Aikido Goldilocks Zone.

Too much resistance: Two macho guys completely shut down each other's technique just to prove who is best in a "Who Can Shut Down This Technique?" competition. Some people will line themselves up for a head-butt or whatever, just to stop someone lifting their arm. In this kind of competition one doesn't usually want to let the other guy know how to win.

Too little resistance: as Giancarlo so eloquently described, you get folks throwing themselves for their partner when said partner has done nothing that would cause such an action to occur. A poor understanding of etiquette ("I'm sempai, so you should fall") is another problem. If someone screws it up, they need to know. They might not want to know, but I guess that's what makes awase and the reigi important.

The Goldilocks Zone: People foster a level of honesty and trust where they can "resist properly" or "naturally" so that they can test a technique without ego or competition coming into the equation. When someone can shut another person down, they just drop a gear and help them work out how to avoid that shutdown. It's the point where learning can flourish and it will be different for every person you train with since we all have different physiology and tolerance to pain. This is the drawing board stage for solving problems that we never want to happen, so we want the designs to be flawless. Isn't that what keiko is all about? You practise for the real thing. If you just do the real thing from the start (a real fight where anything goes), you'll mainly use what you already know and will probably impose limits anyway (making it an unreal fight).

Rather than "resistance", how about thinking of it as "honestly testing the technique"?
Carl, thanks for this.

There is a point, when you first start training (at least when I did), where you are fumbling around trying out where to put your feet and what to do with your hands and how to fall properly. When the new student is Nage, Uke rolls with it and lets the new student get comfortable with the movement. Just as the new student in Uke role learns to fall slowly at first then gains the confidence to go a little faster.

Now that you have that down, lets add another aspect, we observe and demonstrate the difference between moving with your arms and moving with your center. Uke does not go along with your movements but gives enough resistance so that nage can "feel" the difference between moving with your hips and moving with your shoulders.

Light goes on, (ding! you have become better at ukemi).

This is, obviously, a simplified example...but I appreciate it when Uke and Nage work together to improve eachother. I just want to learn to do it "correctly" out of appreciation to my partner for working with me during class.

Of course, once you have that figured out...Sensei will add something to further challenge you.

Be safe and Be well,
Chris

--------
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
--------
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 03:58 PM   #60
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I think I'm supposed to be all intimidated by this "offer" to "demonstrate"...is that correct? I'll work on it, along with the host of other "emotions" that you think I should be having, instead of the ones I do have. I should get that all straightened out shortly after I get it through my thick head that you are, in fact, the boss of me.
You don't know how to discuss on public forum. The world is not turning around you.
This will stop my interaction with you.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 03:59 PM   #61
Jonathan
Dojo: North Winnipeg Aikikai
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 242
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Also Sugano sensei often has been laughing that I'm not doing aikido but jujutsu. So I started to carefully study time and space BEFORE contact.
Yes, this is - or should be - a common area of study when doing Aikido.

Quote:
Having said that, I don't 'try to relax and adjust.' This mistake is common for quite beginners on jujutsu level. So you could never stop my technique this way. Please find something more sophisticated
I'm sure you're quite an irresistible force. Don't make the mistake in thinking that when I say "relax" I mean become like a wet noodle.

Quote:
Exactly, technique-specific practice can give expected results ONLY when technique is executed in most difficult conditions. Extreme conditions. Not only because the is the only way to close all openings, but such teaching follows O sensei teaching that every technique we must execute as it will be our last technique before dying. That makes difference aikido from any other sport oriented practice.
Maybe its just me, but this all sounds kinda' vague. What exactly do you mean by "in most difficult conditions," or "extreme conditions"? What qualitative difference does it make to your performance of a technique to perform it as though "it will be our last technique before dying"? Do you do it faster? Slower? Less tension? More tension? What?

Quote:
...no one person teaches Aikido in a way that is right for everyone. There are different ways that are valid.
Yup, and this was, in the end, my point in remarking on Saotome's video.

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 04:02 PM   #62
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Larry Novick wrote: View Post
No one, in my opinion, is an expert on O Sensei. Some people (not Stan Pranin, by the way, and that is not a dig at him) spent a lot of time with him at different periods of his life. They report very different things about training with him, depending when they did spend time with him. To believe and say the above is to be Very short-sighted, on many levels.
Hi Larry,
Feel free to present your long-sighted on all levels believs on this topic. I'm sincerly interested.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 05:27 PM   #63
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,452
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Larry Novick wrote: View Post
No one, in my opinion, is an expert on O Sensei. Some people (not Stan Pranin, by the way, and that is not a dig at him) spent a lot of time with him at different periods of his life. They report very different things about training with him, depending when they did spend time with him.
This is a good point. There is nobody more regretful that he did not actually meet O'Sensei than Stan Pranin. He was, in fact, about to get that opportunity when O'Sensei passed. But he has spent a life's work digging, researching, learning, and talking to just about everybody who did know O'Sensei, and the results can be seen in all Stan's writing. It's pretty clear that not everybody's take on O'Sensei is/was the same, as he was a constantly evolving individual, and his relationships with different people, at different times and in different contexts, gave rise to a diverse assortment of impressions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 06:33 PM   #64
Aiki1
 
Aiki1's Avatar
Dojo: ACE Aikido
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 346
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Hi Larry,
Feel free to present your long-sighted on all levels believs on this topic. I'm sincerly interested.
No, your not.Your sarcastic, you think you know it all, and you show exactly who you are by your rudeness.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 06:34 PM   #65
Aiki1
 
Aiki1's Avatar
Dojo: ACE Aikido
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 346
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
This is a good point. There is nobody more regretful that he did not actually meet O'Sensei than Stan Pranin. He was, in fact, about to get that opportunity when O'Sensei passed. But he has spent a life's work digging, researching, learning, and talking to just about everybody who did know O'Sensei, and the results can be seen in all Stan's writing. It's pretty clear that not everybody's take on O'Sensei is/was the same, as he was a constantly evolving individual, and his relationships with different people, at different times and in different contexts, gave rise to a diverse assortment of impressions.
Ya - sometimes it amazes me to see the vast variety of Aikido that actually emerged from "one source" so to speak.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 06:44 PM   #66
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 239
Offline
Re: Resistance

I am sure I am guilty of blocking other people's techniques to "do it the right way". Equally I have learnt a fair amount through that method in the past.

I have also had frustrations, for example, with a high ranking woman - as nage she could handle any pressure I put on her in soft but powerful way, but as uke she would throw herself when I twitched. I am sure this was a self protection mechanism through practising with many brutes over the years. I had to adjust to do techniques as softly and correctly as I knew how to get any value - that in itself was interesting.

I quite like the Cheng Hsin method of training - various different "games" each with different rules. Starts with receiving only and no responding techniques, just yielding. Then you get in to both people being able to make the other person yield, and yet each must yield themselves - no blocking allowed. Continues the progression until it is full free style with blocking etc allowed. Note that beginners are kept firmly to lower levels as they tend to learn bad habits otherwise.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 08:52 PM   #67
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Larry Novick wrote: View Post
No, your not.Your sarcastic, you think you know it all, and you show exactly who you are by your rudeness.
Again personal attack....hmhm....easy to criticize my opinion and give nothing instead.....oh well...life is really brutal and then you die.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 08:56 PM   #68
Aiki1
 
Aiki1's Avatar
Dojo: ACE Aikido
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 346
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Again personal attack....hmhm....easy to criticize my opinion and give nothing instead.....oh well...life is really brutal and then you die.
Yea, it's a tough life when someone won't play your game.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 10:14 PM   #69
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,502
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
Interesting discussion. Ron your last post is true... kuzushi is an ongoing, changing connection, and effect that must be there to take the sente and keep it.
I thought long and hard about O Sensei's statement that Aikido, specifically was not about sente at all. I don't disagree with what you said about kuzushi and it obviously defines a sente, however, there is till that observation of the Founder. It is the road to the sente and the manner of getting there that makes all the difference. That comment was also made, interestingly enough, in the same interview where he talks of tettei muteiko "absolutely no resistance" in aikido (in Pranin's translation).

Trying to reestablish sente directly is to directly oppose the action presumably trying to take it. Slamming the brakes suddenly, or throwing the wheel over radically is an invitation to lose control at the point of contact. Throwing the vehicle into reverse gear at speed is just jarring and damaging. Not resisting the taking of sente -- to the point of cooperating with it, up to a point, takes one to an open branch point along the line of that action. Since uke is driving there already he cannot really stop -- without himself losing control or incurring damaging. Instead, you guide him to an off-ramp along the line of travel he did not mean to take.

Aiki seems more about about throwing away the sente the opponent is trying to take, so that every time he thinks he has it, it has already become worthless. He has to look for the new one, while the aikidoka is not engaging in a linear argument (first, second, third etc.) at all . Sente simply comes to the aikidoka acting critically at the natural branch point in accordance with aiki principles. Is not simply taken forcibly in the sense of direct opposition to another trying to take it. That would be the measure, in my mind, of the typical kinds of resistance at issue.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 03-11-2008 at 10:21 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 11:28 PM   #70
Nafis Zahir
 
Nafis Zahir's Avatar
Dojo: Bucks County Aikido
Location: Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 425
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

This thread has gone in two different directions. Although some people have made some very valid points, others have gotten off base. I want to try and be very clear, that I am talking about reistance that is designed to awaken the nage's movements. It is not a way of showing the nage how strong I can be or that I can resist their technique no matter what they do. But at a certain level, I use it to show them that they need to use their hip more in trying to execute the technique. Other times it is used to demonstrate how not being in the proper posture, even if just slightly out of place, can weaken a technique.

Once the correction is made and the technique starts to take its proper form, then as uke, I join with the nage and receive the technique in order to avoid injury. Too many times, I have seen senior students who have not worked on these small things throughout their entire time in Aikido. Now we have many Yudansha, who may be Nidans or even Sandans, who can do correct techniques if attacked really hard because they have no tai sabaki, use a lot of muscle, and expect things to just happen because that's all that they are use to. I may grab very tightly or offer minimum resistance at first, but once that has been broken, then I go along for the ride. If you can't get past that first stage, then that is something that needs to be worked on. and for many Aikidoka today, that is something that they have been missing in their training.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2008, 01:43 AM   #71
Carl Thompson
 
Carl Thompson's Avatar
Location: Kasama
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 453
Japan
Offline
Re: Resistance

Glad you liked the comments Chris

A Japanese sensei once told me that aikido is faa-ji. He seemed quite surprised when I didn't understand the word and assured me it was gairaigo (a word that was adapted into Japanese from a foreign language), and that he was pretty sure it was English in origin. He explained that when robots pick up cans, they don't need to make any adjustments to their movement, because the can is of fixed size and shape. They just copy the same movements over and over. However an egg is much harder for a robot to pick up, because the grip must adjust depending upon the angle and size of the egg. A robot that understands the concept of faa-ji can cope with this, because it works out the best way to grip it without relying on fixed patterns. Obviously, you don't toss the egg at the robot first, but neither do you just place it directly in the mechanical arm every time. He said Aikido doesn't rely on fixed patterns to deal with fixed attacks. Aikido is faa-ji and instead adapts to fit attacks through practiced and varied exposure to them.

Eventually it dawned on me what he meant. I checked the dictionary and came across the expression faaji ronri.
ファージ論理

"Ronri" means "logic".

Aikido is fuzzy!

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2008, 02:32 AM   #72
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
I thought long and hard about O Sensei's statement that Aikido, specifically was not about sente at all. I don't disagree with what you said about kuzushi and it obviously defines a sente, however, there is till that observation of the Founder. It is the road to the sente and the manner of getting there that makes all the difference.
I agree. Some budo teachings use a form of direct oppositional means of establishing or taking sente. The aiki method is used in very skillful jodan level budo. In older times aiki was used in some bujutsu ryu to mean that opponents were "matching" with no one having the lead or initiative. Takeda's usage of the term (and possibly others) meant essentially what you describe and the way I learned to use the terms of mitsu no sen from my teachers. I think possibly Ueshiba Morihei disliked the terms because he felt that his budo was the "ultimate or true budo" and he made up his own terms that were very hard for others to understand. As far as I'm concerned, a rose by any other name... it is still simply one person has the lead and the other must respond to what that person is doing. How that lead is gained and maintained is the heart of the matter.

Best regards,

Last edited by Chuck Clark : 03-12-2008 at 02:34 AM.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2008, 06:34 AM   #73
G DiPierro
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 365
United_States
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Nafis Zahir wrote: View Post
Too many times, I have seen senior students who have not worked on these small things throughout their entire time in Aikido. Now we have many Yudansha, who may be Nidans or even Sandans, who can do correct techniques if attacked really hard because they have no tai sabaki, use a lot of muscle, and expect things to just happen because that's all that they are use to. I may grab very tightly or offer minimum resistance at first, but once that has been broken, then I go along for the ride. If you can't get past that first stage, then that is something that needs to be worked on. and for many Aikidoka today, that is something that they have been missing in their training.
I agree with this characterization -- assuming that you meant to say "we have many yudansha ... who can not do correct techniques" (although I myself think the level goes higher than sandan) -- and attribute this situation to the expectation in most dojos (especially in the aikikai) that nage will maintain a 100% rate of success in throwing uke at all times, both in everyday training and on tests. This requires ukes to always ensure that nage throws them regardless of how poor the nage's technique is, and thus enables ineffective techniques and habits to flourish while causing overall effectiveness to degrade over time.

As Carl Thompson mentioned, the ideal success rate for nage in training is somewhere between 0% and 100%, and while that seems so obvious as to not even need to be pointed out, the fact is that it is an entirely alien concept at many aikido dojos. Providing intelligent resistance at the sweet spot for nage (let's say somewhere around 40-70% rate of success) is a pedagogical skill in itself, and it is one that is not only not taught at most aikido dojos, but also one that typically would not even be allowed as it would be likely to offend the delicate sensibilities of the students and teachers of the dojo, accustomed and very much attached, as they are, to their illusions of their own power and effectiveness.

Last edited by G DiPierro : 03-12-2008 at 06:41 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2008, 07:13 AM   #74
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 239
Offline
Re: Resistance

One, perhaps extreme, way of teaching via resistance:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=179

Quote:
After I greeted Mr. Kimura at the dojo, we soon began practice. At first, Mr. Kimura taught me the basic practice method of aiki age, a technique where you sit in seiza facing your opponent who grabs both of your arms and holds them down while you try to raise them. Mr. Kimura grabbed my hands and told me to raise them in any way I liked. I tried to raise them but couldn’t move at all. Then he threw me freely to the back or sideways over 100 times.
Also: http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=242

Friends visited the dojo recently and this description of the training method matches what they saw. Total resistance is used all the time. Sounds somewhat like a Zen koan - beat your brain against it until something gives.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2008, 07:26 AM   #75
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,145
Offline
Re: Resistance

Quote:
Giancarlo DiPierro wrote: View Post
. Providing intelligent resistance at the sweet spot for nage (let's say somewhere around 40-70% rate of success) is a pedagogical skill in itself, and it is one that is not only not taught at most aikido dojos, but also one that typically would not even be allowed as it would be likely to offend the delicate sensibilities of the students and teachers of the dojo, accustomed and very much attached, as they are, to their illusions of their own power and effectiveness.
I think that this rate will be rather about 2-5%. May be one sucessful throw by class?
As for 'the delicate sensibilities of the students and teachers ' - it is MA training. If you extablish such standard right from the beginning, everybody will think that the rate 5% is a very normal thing and nobody will get offended. But I suppose it is too big challenge to the instructors.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido of Northern VA Seminars - Doran-sensei in Northern Virginia, March 2015



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Resistance training overview: the four basic levels G DiPierro Training 17 11-04-2007 04:18 PM
The tool of resistance in teaching Aikido Marc Abrams Training 18 10-26-2007 10:52 AM
Train of thought Ketsan General 35 12-04-2006 07:13 AM
Past Nage Waza In Aikido Dennis Hooker General 3 10-12-2004 03:24 PM
resistance in training Paula Lydon Training 8 08-29-2003 03:19 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate