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Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > "Off-The-Mat"

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Old 08-02-2009, 10:38 PM   #1
Janet Rosen
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Fight? What fight?

This Sunday's NYT "Modern Love" column describes one of the finest examples I've ever read of living aikido off the mat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fa...pagewanted=all

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:32 AM   #2
Mark Mueller
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Janet, Thanks for posting that. Beautiful example.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:27 AM   #3
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Fight? What fight?

I have a wife like that!
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:55 AM   #4
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Wow..... I'm glade you shared this. What an amazing example she sets.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:27 AM   #5
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Thanks Janet...that is very moving. They should make a movie out of that story.

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Old 08-03-2009, 10:14 AM   #6
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fight? What fight?

WOW.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:16 AM   #7
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Wow. That is a great story. Not too many women could do something like that. I don't know if I could....

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:11 PM   #8
RED
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Re: Fight? What fight?

That takes reserve I hope I can have some day.
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:55 AM   #9
Susan Dalton
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Re: Fight? What fight?

The most amazing part is how she kept from blaming "uke". Wow.
Susan
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:33 AM   #10
Maarten De Queecker
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Beautiful story. It kind of moved me...
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Old 08-11-2009, 06:45 AM   #11
MM
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
This Sunday's NYT "Modern Love" column describes one of the finest examples I've ever read of living aikido off the mat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fa...pagewanted=all
Hello,

Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me? Truthfully, I'm just not seeing it. I was hoping that if I gave you the chance, the open mic, maybe you'd explain how it is aikido off the mat. My promise is that I'll not debate it with you. I'll most likely ask questions to clarify what you say, but no debates on validity. No interjections on my views of aikido.

If you don't care to discuss it, that's fine.

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:45 AM   #12
rob_liberti
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Re: Fight? What fight?

I just read something that resonated with me about this topic in a different thread:

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
Survival in today's jungle:

Self-absorption: no empathy or love, could lead one to the delusion that he is the only person with free will and emotion.

Altruism: pure empathy and love, dangerous mind state leads to manipulation from self-absorbed others. Feelings of weakness, learned helplessness, and a total external locus of control.

Invulnerable Altruism: The result of proper, consistent Aiki-geiko. A moderate, chronic euphoria that words cannot further describe.
I like this idea of "Invulnerable Altruism". I look at it as being unassailable. I'm working on that because I suspect it will help me also become much more unassailing!

You can debate with me to your hearts content. I would also like to read the OP's perspective.

Rob

old mcdojo had a form, aiki aiki do...
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:16 AM   #13
Abasan
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Hello,

Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me? Truthfully, I'm just not seeing it. I was hoping that if I gave you the chance, the open mic, maybe you'd explain how it is aikido off the mat. My promise is that I'll not debate it with you. I'll most likely ask questions to clarify what you say, but no debates on validity. No interjections on my views of aikido.

If you don't care to discuss it, that's fine.

Thanks,
Mark
I thought it was picture perfect. She kept her calm and centered. She didn't clash but blended. She led but did not push. She did not cower nor did she fight back, but she accepted. And finally, both of them won. Neither lost. Balance restored, harmony prevailed.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:38 AM   #14
Janet Rosen
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Hello,
Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me?
As the OP: she stayed centered, dealt with the global reality in front of her without necessarily buying into her partner's version of it, continued to blend and lead however long it took until harmony was restored.

Last edited by akiy : 08-11-2009 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Fixed quoting

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:54 PM   #15
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Nice story with a happy ending.

Shows a lot about resolve. Her resolve was to hold the family together and it won out. Of course if the husband was actually serious about leaving and had the resolve to do so he would have just left and not look back - saying he was about to leave was merely a means of asking her to help him find the means to stay. He may have never been serious about actually acting on what he said from the beginning.

Imho perpetual blending does not always resolve conflict. It often only prolongs the inevitable. This case was different.

LC

Last edited by L. Camejo : 08-11-2009 at 09:57 PM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:20 PM   #16
Janet Rosen
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
Imho perpetual blending does not always resolve conflict. It often only prolongs the inevitable. This case was different.
I totally agree.
In this case there are a couple of things that struck me though:
One is that she did from the start tell him "I don't buy it." She didn't do a pat "yes dear I hear you" blend. She actually stated her reaction to his attack - and she continued to reframe things. You'll note this very much took his balance - lots of "huh?"s and angry "oh you mean this...", which she continues to reframe - like from the start she had a gut feeling that it wasn't about what he said it was about so if she reframed it, it might work.
The reframing is sort of a continual kuzushi more than a continual blend, I guess, now that I think of it!

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:38 PM   #17
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fight? What fight?

I think it has alot to do with the concept of entering as well. She entered by standing her ground and by her convictions, yet allowed him to move where he naturally wanted to go without letting go of him or pushing him away. By doing this, I think she was able to maintain her self control, not feel like a push over, yet he resolved his own problem...or something like that.

It is hard to describe in detail, but I do believe it is a fantastic story that illustrates the concept. She held on by letting go, but not by pushing away. Very skillful way of handling the issue!

Giving uke the space he needs while protecting ourselves.

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Old 08-11-2009, 10:43 PM   #18
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Hello,

Um, please don't take this the wrong way. But, would you (my grammar teacher always hated "could". Of course you are capable) explain how this story is aikido off the mat for me? Truthfully, I'm just not seeing it. I was hoping that if I gave you the chance, the open mic, maybe you'd explain how it is aikido off the mat. My promise is that I'll not debate it with you. I'll most likely ask questions to clarify what you say, but no debates on validity. No interjections on my views of aikido.

If you don't care to discuss it, that's fine.

Thanks,
Mark
Or alternatively, perhaps you could explain how it is NOT aikido.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:38 AM   #19
MM
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Or alternatively, perhaps you could explain how it is NOT aikido.
No. That would be debating. I said I wouldn't do that. I won't.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:44 PM   #20
fisher6000
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Re: Fight? What fight?

I think it's OK to debate in a forum. Isn't that what forums are for?

I thought it was an excellent example of kuzushi. And also, a sensei I had in the past said all the time that it was important to be "sticky," or not be in such a hurry to resolve an attack.

On the mat and in life, I tend to rush. I rush to understand a workplace conflict, rush to apologize, rush to find a technique in randori... and I do this so that I can end the ambiguity.

It takes a lot of courage to let the ambiguity play itself out when it's appropriate to do so.
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:08 PM   #21
MM
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
I think it's OK to debate in a forum. Isn't that what forums are for?
Sure, I think it's okay to debate in a forum, too. I've done so here on Aikiweb. But, I wanted Janet's view without my interfering, or debating, so that not only could she explain her view, but I could focus on understanding her view. Beyond that, I said I wouldn't debate. I stand by what I say.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:05 PM   #22
David Orange
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
I have a wife like that!
Is that why you're in Okinawa now???

Hope she's with you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 09-29-2011, 07:42 AM   #23
Commander13CnC3
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Re: Fight? What fight?

Fantastic Aikido "off the mat" reference!
Interesting story, too.

Though only one enemy calls you out
Be on your best guard.
To deal with one adversary in the spirit of facing ten thousand
Is the Way of the Warrior.
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:25 PM   #24
genin
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Re: Fight? What fight?

At first it sounds like she was letting him walk all over her, or that she was desperate to keep him. But in actuality, she recognized a conflict, and she took the perceived best course of action so that she could acheive victory. Victory, in this case, was not allowing her husband to leave her family, and to a lesser extent, allowing him to draw her into an ongoing argument over divorce.

At the most basic level, you can ask yourself what your enemy (uke/husband) wants you to do, and then simply don't do that thing. The husband wanted her to fly off the deep end and give him a reason to leave. While I'm sure she felt the urge to flip out, and she would've been right in doing so, she instead chose to defeat her enemy with a more effective tactic.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:15 PM   #25
Gorgeous George
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Re: Fight? What fight?

I don't think it's quite that simple: the children were forced, by her actions, to live in an erratic, discord-riven environment, because she chose to bring about that situation...
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