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Old 03-27-2008, 12:45 PM   #51
tuturuhan
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

[quote=George S. Ledyard;202695]I have a bit of a different take on this. Everybody complians about how we have gone too far towards the "empowerment" side of the spectrum with our children.

But there is a very good reason that the pendulum has swung this far. When I was growing up everyone faced barriers based on racism, sexism, class, etc. I had a friend who wanted to be a doctor. She was talked out of it by her parents and convinced that teaching was more suitable for a girl. She always regretted it and at 35 went back to med school and became a doctor.

Mr. Ledyard,

Thank you.

Though, my father was a farm worker, immigrant and never made more than $4000 a year; the land of opportunity gave his son the opportunity to become a lawyer, married to a lawyer, with two fine children and money in the bank.

I used to do a lot of divorce law. Let me tell you "empowerment" destroyed lots of families.

1) 52% divorce rate

2) 70% of the population on the verge of bankruptcy (as stated by the great sage Ophrah)

3) 70% of the population suffering from obesity and related illnesses (as stated by the great sage Ophrah)

4) Instant Gratification through empowerment as created:
A. Saving rate of less than -.05 percent vs the Chinese at 33%
B. Credit Card average balances of over 12,000
C, Average 42 year old has less than $2000 in the bank

My perspective has less to do with the ideals of love and more so with the practical results of putting a roof over my families head and food on their table.

I worry tremendously about the imbalances of "empowerment and entitlement". I personally think that it is important that their be "tags" that represent actual skill and ability.

But, thank you sir for the lively conversation.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 03-27-2008, 03:11 PM   #52
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Joseph wrote:

Quote:
Mr Levitt,

Ah...a point of contention. The standard belief is that "ego" is a bad thing. Perhaps, ego can be seen as a good thing...no?

Of course, I have difficulty with the "young masters" who have no skill to back of their egos. The metric should be result rather than false talk.

Yes, I do think my generation screwed up badly. We eliminated words of respect like "thank you, your welcome, and yes sir and no mai'm. These words taught the hierarchy of respect.

Thank you for your comments.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola
I would not say it is a point of contention as much as it is a different view on the same subject.

I don't think I said anything about ego being good or bad...ego simply is what it is..ego. It is when you make decisions or take actions based simply on your own perception without considering the impact that makes a decision an ego centric decision.

That impact may be good or bad...as it may be that your perception may lead to a result that is acceptable to what is generally judged as having good merit by those that it impacts.

That is why I think it is important to seek to understand before being undersood..or considering other perspectives, educating ourselves and attempting to be exposed to new things.

I think this is what enlightment is about..but that is a different conversation.

As far as "young masters" having no skill to back up there egos...not sure really what that means other than maybe someone is holding themselves out to be something that they are not? AKA a "poser".

All I can say is "be true to thine self".

Sure we run into those guys. I certainly have to work hard to make sure that I don't enter that category, I think it is easy to fall prey to at some level for all of us.

Being that...I have enough to do to worry about myself rather than dealing with Posers...they have their own issues...why do I need to concern myself with them?

I understand where you are coming from with the whole respect issue. I am an officer in the military and have been in it for about 24 years all they way up through the ranks...so I live in a very hierarchial world.

However, I also have kids, I expect them to be polite, considerate...no not that...COMPASSIONATE. but I think we are past the superficial courtesies of Yes sir, no m'am, at least for my family. A simple yes, with a look in the eye conveys enough meaning. Yet, listening deeply to what the other person is saying is even more important than "yes sir". (You can say that and mean FU by the way).

Also simple courtesy is taking the time to make sure you spell someone's name properly (no big deal though, couldn't resist).

People around me say "Yes Sir'. Ask "How was your day". "did you have a good weekend?"

How many of them (US, me included), take the time to pause, listening deeply, and really mean it?

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Old 03-27-2008, 05:27 PM   #53
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Mr. Leavitt,

I apologize for spelling your name incorrectly. But then, who hasn't had their name spelled incorrectly? Who hasn't misintrepreted or gotten angry over "words"? (I too, couldn't resist)

I agree, understanding is quite valuable. Why do you think "words of respect" continue to be instituted in the military? Why do you think that whenever I encounter another parent, an old school teacher or a barrista at Starbucks, I address them with yes sir or no maim?

I do not expect others to call me by my titles. I do not expect them to know my skills or accomplishments. I do not expect them to be polite by saying "yes sir" to a valued customer. Though, it would be a good business practice.

We are not intimate. As such, we keep our distance, and we do so respectfully.

Conversation allows us our view points. It allows us to make contact and to begin the steps of understanding. Sometimes, the statements must be bold and provocative to illicit responses. Nonetheless, their is dialogue.

I test my skills to "blend and grasp". I engage and I receive. I pause, I listen and to answer your question...most people do not do so...but, my children are being trained to be polite and respectful with words of respect and courtesy.

Sincerely,
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 03-27-2008, 07:13 PM   #54
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Again, no problem on the name thing. I understand.

There is no issue with showing respect, certainly it is appropriate.

I think it is good when it is done out of geniune sincerity and respect...and not solely based on position or authority.

Certainly many do not have that for each other in the world today. Again, for me, it is based on mutual respect...that is what is key.

That exists in most dojos I have been in for sure.

I am sure for many it is also a matter of culture and societal norms...that is fine too.

However, when we start judging the merit of others who don't do things exactly the way we do them...that is, they may have different culture and norms...then we have issues.

It doesn't necessarily mean that society is downfalling because we are not a homogenous society like 1950 suburban "Leave it to Beaver" as Ledyard Sensei eloquently described.

It simply may mean that people demonstrate respect and compassion in different ways.

Albeit, I think it is our charge as aikidoka to set good examples for others to see, not to be in judgement.

That does not mean that we need to preach or expect others to do things our way...simply we set the example and try and help people maybe expand their horizons a little...maybe to see the world from another perspective.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

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Old 03-27-2008, 07:19 PM   #55
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Quote:
Joseph Arriola wrote: View Post
Mr. Ledyard,

Thank you.

Though, my father was a farm worker, immigrant and never made more than $4000 a year; the land of opportunity gave his son the opportunity to become a lawyer, married to a lawyer, with two fine children and money in the bank.
Obviously a success story... but this land of opportunity has not always provided such opportunity to all as I mentioned.

Quote:
I used to do a lot of divorce law. Let me tell you "empowerment" destroyed lots of families.

1) 52% divorce rate
In the old days, the divorce rate was far less. Fine. That didn't mean people were actually happy in their relationships. Women were often completely trapped in marriages as there was no way a single woman could survive economically. Men stayed married but it was accepted that they played around or frequented prostitutes... The Catholic church made divorce impossible. Careers were ended if one divorced. So people who shouldn't have stayed together and lived lives of desperation.

If "empowerment" means not staying in abusive marriage, not staying with someone who doesn't love you, not staying in a marriage in which all the power is one sided, then fine, I guess maybe you could say "empowerment" causes divorce but I guess i am also fine with that.

Quote:
2) 70% of the population on the verge of bankruptcy (as stated by the great sage Ophrah)
Financial pressures are cited as one of the primary contributing factors in divorce. Yes, divorce amongst the middle class is often a financial disaster as fortunes which took years to build are split up. But for the majority of folks, they barely have anything anyway. The fact that so many people are close to bankruptcy is independent of their being divorced or not. Plenty of quite happily married people are broke. It is a fact that most small business startups fail. These are folks who work their tails off, try to create something of value, but they fail anyway. I don't see these people as somehow harmed by "empowerment", in fact quite the opposite.

The folks who run these small businesses that don't make it, usually turn around and try again. Often they try several times until they get it right and they create something sustainable. The folks who can do that... pick themselves up and start again, well, someone, somewhere gave them the confidence and will power to do that. That's the "empowerment" I am talking about. And I see it as positive

Quote:
3) 70% of the population suffering from obesity and related illnesses (as stated by the great sage Ophrah)
This one really escapes me... We live in an economy which spends billions of dollars creating a market for unhealthy foods. At the same time our crazy business ethic says that we should be working overtime to attain a "lifestyle" that is unsustainable on a planetary basis. Our economy is driven by consumption. If people were to stop buying things which are unhealthy or unnecessary, we would be in total economic collapse.

Obesity is a direct result of an unhealthy lifestyle associated with our capitalist consumer culture upon which most people's livelihoods depend (2/3 of the average supermarket is stocked with items which we definitively know to be detrimental to our health). If you look at countries like Japan, they are having precisely the same problems with skyrocketing obesity rates. I fail to see how this is the result of "empowerment" or "entitlement".

We have bought into a life style based on speed, we are an ADD society. Our entire economy is based on this and billions and billions of dollars are spent to make sure that we stay that way. I cannot turn on the TV or the radio, pick up a newspaper, or even surf the net without encountering a barrage of propaganda trying to convince me to eat what I shouldn't, more frequently than I should.

We do jobs which do not require physical exertion, try to be super parents by over scheduling our kids, work too late, work the weekends, etc Families find it hard to accomplish all the things they've been told they need to be doing and even sit down to have a family meal together. I don't see that as the result of "empowerment".In fact I see people in desperate need of "empowerment" to help them break this ridiculous cycle. Everything in the culture runs counter to making these changes.

Nope, I definitely don't see how "empowerment" of our youth creates fat kids... In fact I am obese myself and I can tell you I had the traditional strict upbringing with traditional family values galore... But I am still addicted to carbs, despite the fact that I didn't get the type of empowerment you seem to oppose so strongly.

Quote:
4) Instant Gratification through empowerment as created:
A. Saving rate of less than -.05 percent vs the Chinese at 33%
B. Credit Card average balances of over 12,000
C, Average 42 year old has less than $2000 in the bank
Once again, while these things are true, I fail to see how "empowerment" created this. Perhaps you feel that empowerment has gone too far in some cases. I would say that is probably true. But our lack of savings is determined largely by the consumer economy that devotes every resource it can into getting all of us to believe that we can't wait for that new car, that we need to have the huge house in the more expensive neighborhood, that even folks who simply can't afford things should buy them anyway. If I and my neighbors wait tow years to buy our new car, tens of thousands of workers in Detroit lose their jobs.

The whole economy is driven by consumers who are trained to believe that their worth as individuals has to do with their material success and that the stuff they buy is how they demonstrate that worth. I don't see "empowerment" as the cause of this problem. in fact, true "empowerment" is the solution. Give people a sense of worth that is independent of acquisition... give them something that gives their lives meaning apart from the race to own more stuff. That's real "empowerment". I see Aikido practice as one of many forms of that type of "empowerment".

Quote:
My perspective has less to do with the ideals of love and more so with the practical results of putting a roof over my families head and food on their table.

I worry tremendously about the imbalances of "empowerment and entitlement". I personally think that it is important that their be "tags" that represent actual skill and ability.
Somehow you seem to associate the terms "entitlement" and "empowerment" with some sort of unreal, undeserved set of expectations. The terms as I use them have none of the "something for nothing" take that you ascribe to them. I am talking about people who know that they are "entitled" to have the same opportunities to achieve that everyone else has, just like you've had. I am talking about people who as individuals feel "empowered" to take risks, work hard, go for their dreams, not let others tell them they can't. Maybe you and I are talking about different meanings to these words because what I am talking about allows people to be the best they wish to be and to be happy with that. Can't see that as a negative...

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 03-27-2008 at 07:23 PM.

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Old 03-27-2008, 07:31 PM   #56
tuturuhan
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Mr. Leyard,

I find it interesting that you speak from idealism. Yet, I don't here you giving your actual experiences.

My wife is a domestic violence attorney and knows first hand, not from what she reads in the newspapers.

Racism, prejudice etc etc...I lived in a time when their were separate bathrooms for people like you and people like me. Yet, I still think that this is the greatest country in the world in terms of opportunity.

Yet, I am saddened. I have seen first hand the result of several generations of people on "welfare"...how it had become habitual. Sometimes, those who supposedly give and give their love...only imprison the less fortunate with their "entitlements".

We as a nation are on the verge of a great change. We must either step up to the plate or continue to play in our dojos.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 03-27-2008, 07:59 PM   #57
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

..and also some people simply cannot seem to escape being victims. How do you help those that do not genuinely seem to want to take advantage of opportunity that seem to constantly fall back on the victim mentality?

How long do we continue to blame "the man"?

How long do you let society and the government keep you down with Welfare?

How long do you accept suffering as your fate?

At what point do people become responsible for their own actions and take control of their life?

Having spent time in some really bad places and see people survive and rise to the occassion...It becomes hard for me to understand why it seems to be so hard for people in a country such as the U.S to take advantage of the opportunities..no matter how small they may seem.

Please don't take this as categorical judgement...they are just questions that come to my mind sometimes.

From my philosophical standpoint, it is not so much money, cars, and the upper middle class that enslave people..as much as it is their own minds.

Victor Frankl comes to mind right now.

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Old 03-28-2008, 08:50 PM   #58
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Again, no problem on the name thing. I understand.

However, when we start judging the merit of others who don't do things exactly the way we do them...that is, they may have different culture and norms...then we have issues.

It doesn't necessarily mean that society is downfalling because we are not a homogenous society like 1950 suburban "Leave it to Beaver" as Ledyard Sensei eloquently described.

It simply may mean that people demonstrate respect and compassion in different ways.

That does not mean that we need to preach or expect others to do things our way...simply we set the example and try and help people maybe expand their horizons a little...maybe to see the world from another perspective.

Be the change you want to see in the world.
Major Leavitt,

I agree.

I am a bit of a sticklier when it comes to words. I tend to believe that when you "name" something it takes on the characteristics good and bad.

For instance, the word manipulation bothers a lot of people. They have judged the word and have given it negative connotations. I simply look at the word and understand that "mani" is latin for hand. So, when I manipulate a pen...I am simply moving it.

As for pre-judgements and being "judgmental"...I think it is important to make assumptions based on our past experiences. I tell my children to look both ways before they cross the street. This means they must pre-judge and be judgmental.

As for preaching...this is what leaders must do.

Sincerely,
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 03-29-2008, 05:52 AM   #59
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

I think you and I have polar philosophical views. I personally do not really believe in "good" and "bad" necessarily, or at least that things can be put in neat boxes labeled good and bad. I believe good or bad depends on your perspective and angle. what is good for one may be bad for another. (I am talking on a philosophical level, not a societal level).

Interesting I never heard the word manipulation bother anyone. I am sure it can though in some way. (again, perspective and angle).

Making assumptions based on our past experiences can be "good" or "bad". touching a hot stove and remembering our experience for the future may help us. "Fire...hot...bad". however, we can make judgements and assumptions that are based on incomplete facts or delusion.

If I meet a person of color for the first time and he is illiterate and metally handicap, do I make the assumption that all persons of of color (non-white) must be inferior to whites?

Might sound absurb today, but we make decisions like that all the time!

I just moved from Germany back to the states. In Germany my kids could approach a crosswalk and not have to really look both ways before they crossed because you could bet with your life that they would stop on you even looking at the crosswalk.

In Northern Virginina...go ahead and try that and you get a completely different experience!

So, in this case, their past experiences are different from what they experience.

I think common sense obviously applies...but I try and teach my kids to look closer and deeper and to always be aware that things change and new criteria are constantly entering the equation. That and their own ignorance and delusion is what they must constantly strive to overcome.

Less judgement more "stripping away" I think is better.

I disagree with you on leaders need to preach. If I did this in the military I'd have no soldiers to lead (at least from an intrinsic/authentic leadership base). Authoritative..yes...they have to do what I say.

the military has spent a great deal of money training me to not preach, but to Teach, Assess, and Counsel.

I ran one of the largest training centers in the U.S. Army. Our job was to create the environment and conditions to allow commanders and soldiers to make mistakes, execute their plans, and provide them lessons learned that they could incorporate (internalize) into their own.

Preaching (directing) doesn't teach anyone anything other..or if it does...it is a very ineffficient mechanism for delivery.

You can lead a horse to water...comes to mind.

All we can do is present new information, examples, ideas and hope that those around us open up to them.

Again, I go back to Ghandi...be the change you want to see in the world.

Don't preach it. be it.

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Old 03-29-2008, 08:36 AM   #60
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

[quote=Kevin Leavitt;202795]I think you and I have polar philosophical views. I personally do not really believe in "good" and "bad" necessarily, or at least that things can be put in neat boxes labeled good and bad. I believe good or bad depends on your perspective and angle. what is good for one may be bad for another. (I am talking on a philosophical level, not a societal level).

Interesting I never heard the word manipulation bother anyone. I am sure it can though in some way. (again, perspective and angle).

Major Leavitt,

Well, communication is quite interesting. When you say polar, you begin with two ends of a spectrum. Most people in our society think in terms of right and wrong because of the "acceptance" of the "idea" of a linear spectrum. In fact, it is more like a spiral.

What seems right now turns out to be wrong later. What is wrong now changes to right later. As such, point of agreement: I too, believe that perspective changes our views of right and wrong.

Preaching is a form of direction and motivation. The message of the preacher is to provide hope. It is why religion brings comfort to billions of people. It, religion is also the basis for the death and destruction of people and cultures and millions of innocent people. The armies of the world have gone into combat shouting the mantra of the rightness of their religious viewpoints.

As such, what seems to be right in hindsight may be wrong and what seems to be wrong now is viewed as right in the future., A leader knows how to adapt to change.

Have you viewed the tape I provided? Notice that the woman teacher is constantly changes, multi-tasking and orchestrating the defense of the multiple attack. The method is not choreographed, She changes with the attack. She flanks and seeks the best position of offense and defense. She doesn't move in a linear spectrum of right and wrong. She spirals.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 04-07-2008, 11:57 AM   #61
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Comparing and Contrasting

The knife is small, unseen and protected from its mother. The transmits its knowledge to its older brother the staff.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 04-09-2008, 09:30 AM   #62
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Weapons Transference

It is true that once you experience the box of one weapon and then a second and third weapon you begin to see a pattern of concept.

You learn that you can throw the knife as a projectile, you can also throw the stick as a projectile. However, each weapon as a speciality, an essence that is its being.

The wooden weapon, staff, shinai, bokken, demand that they be used in a percussive fashion. The knife, the sword, both demand a flowing technique.

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 04-11-2008, 09:12 AM   #63
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

I don't see many comments on the knife video.
This one seems the best so far ;
Quote:
Timothy Walters Kleinert wrote: View Post
My only comment is that the attackers are only attacking one at a time, for the most part. So it still seems like a training exercise, rather than a, err... combat simulation.
I'd say it is obviously just a training exercise, a very low-level understressed one ... easy if you like.
It would seem difficult to fail to stab/cut slomo zombies over and over again as they stagger past you with one arm out.

Can we see something which could train someone to deal with human attackers?

Edit ;
Quote:
Joseph Arriola wrote: View Post
The knife, the sword, both demand a flowing technique.
No they don't. They absolutely do NOT demand a flowing technique.
Sure, you can swordfight with flowing technique but you can also very effectively swordfight with jerky stacatto technique.

Last edited by Michael Douglas : 04-11-2008 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:23 AM   #64
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Straight Face Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
I don't see many comments on the knife video.
This one seems the best so far ;
I'd say it is obviously just a training exercise, a very low-level understressed one ... easy if you like.
It would seem difficult to fail to stab/cut slomo zombies over and over again as they stagger past you with one arm out.

Can we see something which could train someone to deal with human attackers?
Michael,

It is the first move that is important. The rest is the practice of flanking and positioning.

In other words, one must use his imagination in what would happen if "she" actually cut him in the neck with a "live blade" We could easily use catsup and special affects to make it look "more real".

She would "kill" each opponent one by one. In other words, she is not fighting them all at the same time. She is fighting "only one" and then positioning for the next.

Likewise, If I am fighting a 6'5" 250 pound muscular giant, I would be a fool to fight the "whole of him". Instead, I cut off a finger. I stab him in the leg. Then I go for the kill. I slit his throat...and blood is everywhere. Geez...sounds like the movies.

Yes, in a few weeks, I will put something up that is more akin to what people want to see...freestyle sparring.

Best,
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 04-11-2008, 09:36 AM   #65
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Michael,

This is more of a taste of what most people what to see regarding "freestyle".

Michele and her students: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1buhhQjTLU

Sincerely
Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

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Old 04-20-2008, 05:17 PM   #66
Michael Douglas
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Re: Woman's Knife vs. Multiple Attack

Quote:
Joseph Arriola wrote: View Post
It is the first move that is important. The rest is the practice of flanking and positioning.
Yes I wholeheartedly agree the first move is the important one.
Do you have a clip showing what she can do against an attacker not restricted to the following ;
- slomo
- zombie
- stagger past
- one arm out.
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