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Old 12-28-2001, 09:08 AM   #1
Vera Cordwood
Location: South
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8
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Is it true that Obata Toshishiro Kaiso...

... the founder of Shinkendo, is an Aikidoka, and if so, what is his rank?
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Old 12-28-2001, 11:22 AM   #2
Brian Vickery
Dojo: Aiki-Buken Aikido
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 208
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Re: Is it true that Obata Toshishiro Kaiso...

Quote:
Originally posted by Vera Cordwood
... the founder of Shinkendo, is an Aikidoka, and if so, what is his rank?
Hello Vera,

Yes, Obata Sensei is an aikidoka! He was an uchi deshi under Gozo Shioda Kancho for 7 years at the Yoshinkan Hombu dojo. He attained the rank of 7th dan before he left.

As you mentioned he went on to create the sword art of Shinkendo after many years of practicing several sword styles. You can read more about his history at his website: www.shinkendo.com

His aikido organization is called "Aikibujutsu Tanren Kenkyukai" or "Aikibuken" for short! The dojo where I train in Arizona is affilated with Obata Soke in both Aikido & Shinkendo.

I hope this helps!

Regards,

Brian Vickery

"The highest level of technique to achieve is that of having NO technique!"
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Old 01-06-2002, 11:38 AM   #3
Mike Haber
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 34
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Mr. Vickery, A Question?

What is Obata Kaiso's aikido like? I know that he trained directly under Shioda Kancho but what is his aikido like?

Also, in Yoshinkan, what is iriminage like? I have seen two different ways of doing iriminage. One way is like how I have seen Isoyama and Saito do it by using a tenkan or opening and turning off the line and then returning back the same way and cutting down the uke. The other is the way Seagal does it with a direct enter into the attack and cutting down the uke. There is no tenkan in his movement.

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
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Old 01-06-2002, 04:57 PM   #4
Greg Jennings
Dojo: None at the moment.
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,081
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Re: Mr. Vickery, A Question?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Haber
One way is like how I have seen Isoyama and Saito do it by using a tenkan or opening and turning off the line and then returning back the same way and cutting down the uke. The other is the way Seagal does it with a direct enter into the attack and cutting down the uke. There is no tenkan in his movement.
BTW, there is no tenkan in Saito Shihan's iriminnage kihon waza. On enters directly into shikaku.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 01-07-2002, 07:58 AM   #5
Brian Vickery
Dojo: Aiki-Buken Aikido
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Re: Mr. Vickery, A Question?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Haber
What is Obata Kaiso's aikido like? I know that he trained directly under Shioda Kancho but what is his aikido like?

Also, in Yoshinkan, what is iriminage like? I have seen two different ways of doing iriminage. One way is like how I have seen Isoyama and Saito do it by using a tenkan or opening and turning off the line and then returning back the same way and cutting down the uke. The other is the way Seagal does it with a direct enter into the attack and cutting down the uke. There is no tenkan in his movement.
Hello Mike!

Obata Kaiso's aikido has definite Yoshinkan roots. It's direct, hard, efficient and effective.

I can't answer your question about 'iriminage' in Yoshinkan, Obata Kaiso is not affiliated with the Yoshinkan hombu dojo. But in his organization
( Aikibujutsu Tanren Kenkyukai), iriminage is taught in both the sequences that you mentioned, along with third variation that I can think of off the top of my head.

I'll try and describe that third variation. The attack can be almost anything: yokomenuchi, munetuski, katadori, katatedori, ryotedori, kosadori, etc. Nage cuts/blends ukes strike/grab down as he enters in front of uke, in a continuous circular movement nage then guides that attacking arm up and over the opposite shoulder, while simultaneously grabbing the back of ukes neck or shoulder with his other hand. Then with a hip snap nage throws uke onto his back.

I hope this helps?

Regards,

Last edited by Brian Vickery : 01-07-2002 at 08:02 AM.

Brian Vickery

"The highest level of technique to achieve is that of having NO technique!"
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Old 01-08-2002, 02:14 AM   #6
Nathan Pereira
Dojo: Joseikan Jui Jitsu/MMA/Aikido Rickmansworth, Herts
Location: England
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 42
England
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The two basic ways practiced in Yoshinkan are the 'ichi' and 'ni' versions that we have for 99% of techniques.

The most basic application of this is from a grabbing attack where a grab and pulling action attack would be the Ichi version of the technique and a grab and push would be the ni technique.

I suspect these are the basic kihon versions you have seen. There are numerous variations for jiyu waza etc which tend to be shorter and make uke hit the ground very hard.

I hope this helps.


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Old 01-08-2002, 04:40 AM   #7
Tim Griffiths
Dojo: Nes Ziona Aikikai
Location: Suzhou, China
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 188
China
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Re: Mr. Vickery, A Question?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Haber
Also, in Yoshinkan, what is iriminage like? I have seen two different ways of doing iriminage. One way is like how I have seen Isoyama and Saito do it by using a tenkan or opening and turning off the line and then returning back the same way and cutting down the uke. The other is the way Seagal does it with a direct enter into the attack and cutting down the uke. There is no tenkan in his movement.
Hi Mike,

what you seem to be describing are the omote and ura (or
irimi and tenkan) basic forms of iriminage. Most Yoshinkan,
aikikai and ki soc. dojos practice these as basic forms (as
Nathan said, the style of attack differs between aikido
styles), as they do with almost all techniques.

Tim
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Old 01-08-2002, 05:04 AM   #8
Mares
Location: Australia
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
Offline
Re: Re: Mr. Vickery, A Question?

Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Jennings


BTW, there is no tenkan in Saito Shihan's iriminnage kihon waza. On enters directly into shikaku.

Regards,
Greg,

I understand that you Iwama Style Aikido, please correct me if I'm wrong. But in relation to this, have you seen or know of Saito Shihan doing the direct entry irimi nage (from ki no nagare) Seagal Sensei style? Is this a variation Saito Shihan teaches or shows?

Regards

Michael
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