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Old 02-26-2008, 11:18 AM   #1
MM
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How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

First, check out this video of Ueshiba:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/2...kemusui_school

Around 6:51 to 6:54, watch him "jump".

Now, I saw Dan do something like this. Only he didn't bend down like Ueshiba. Dan stood straight and rigid with knees locked and just popped upwards. Weird.
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:25 AM   #2
Tom H.
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
..stood straight and rigid with knees locked and just popped upwards...
Look for a chinese take on this as well. I'd bet you could find, e.g., chen taiji people doing this to demonstrate dantien rotations (kind of like the guy lying on his back and popping weighted disks off his belly down to his feet, which is dangerous if you miss-fire!). I've also heard training stories where you start by hopping this way out a shallow 1-inch hole, which you deepen to 2 inches, then 3.. and so on.

Last edited by Tom H. : 02-26-2008 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:10 PM   #3
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Hello Mark,
Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
First, check out this video of Ueshiba:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/2...kemusui_school

Around 6:51 to 6:54, watch him "jump".

Now, I saw Dan do something like this. Only he didn't bend down like Ueshiba. Dan stood straight and rigid with knees locked and just popped upwards. Weird.
So let's see it. Perhaps you (or one of Dan's regular visitors) would be so kind as to tape Dan (or one of his students) doing this and post a link. Then those of us who are reading the thread can compare the two --- and perhaps we can discuss what we see in an attempt to answer your question.

Jim
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:38 PM   #4
John Connolly
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

You sure that's an "internal" jump? Certainly they were doing warm-ups, and using a closed-opened motion (which relates to internal processes). However, it seemed that he was just a bit over-exuberant on the first, and jumped, and then after limited his motion to his frame.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:48 PM   #5
Timothy WK
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

I'm pretty sure that "snap" Ueshiba has in the video indicates something internal. But he also clearly bent down and "jumped" up...

Not knowing how to "snap" like that, let alone "jump" without bending the legs, I don't know if it's the same thing or not.

--Timothy Kleinert

Aikido & Wujifa qigongs
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:55 PM   #6
John Connolly
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

I think it's an example of the open-closed frame. And to be frank, I think Ueshiba just overshot his frame a bit, and then began performing the drill as he intended.

Just a guess...
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:50 PM   #7
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
John Connolly wrote: View Post
You sure that's an "internal" jump? Certainly they were doing warm-ups, and using a closed-opened motion (which relates to internal processes). However, it seemed that he was just a bit over-exuberant on the first, and jumped, and then after limited his motion to his frame.
Er, um, no. I was just using Ueshiba's movement to get a frame of reference for people. Not in reference to what Ueshiba is doing.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:51 PM   #8
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Timothy Walters Kleinert wrote: View Post
I'm pretty sure that "snap" Ueshiba has in the video indicates something internal. But he also clearly bent down and "jumped" up...

Not knowing how to "snap" like that, let alone "jump" without bending the legs, I don't know if it's the same thing or not.
Not regarding the "snap" in Ueshiba. But regarding the "jump" by Dan without bending the legs. I don't think they're doing the same thing, but the Ueshiba reference helps people sort of visualize the movement. Guess that didn't work out as well as I had thought. LOL.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:52 PM   #9
Ron Tisdale
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Hey Mark,

No Ueshiba here...

But remember that heaven and earth throw we worked at Mike's seminar? Basically, I tried to take the slack out of my body by extending in all directions. Was there a bit of a "pop" to it when it worked?

I also tried to have a bit of the heel bounce that Mike showed us.
Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:58 PM   #10
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Hey Mark,

No Ueshiba here...

But remember that heaven and earth throw we worked at Mike's seminar? Basically, I tried to take the slack out of my body by extending in all directions. Was there a bit of a "pop" to it when it worked?

I also tried to have a bit of the heel bounce that Mike showed us.
Best,
Ron
Hi Ron,
The heaven/earth throw we worked on was different than this. No heel bounce, no bending of the legs, and a rigid body. It's weird.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:04 PM   #11
Mike Sigman
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Hey Mark,

No Ueshiba here...

But remember that heaven and earth throw we worked at Mike's seminar? Basically, I tried to take the slack out of my body by extending in all directions. Was there a bit of a "pop" to it when it worked?

I also tried to have a bit of the heel bounce that Mike showed us.
Best,
Ron
Goodness... I first posted how to train for that trick about ten years ago on the old Neijia list. And a few times since then. Funny how things come back around. It's part of basic qing-gong ("lightness exercises"). I used to even show it sometimes at workshops. Of course, it's probably a "koryu secret", but we never knew it.

Best.

Mike
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:41 PM   #12
Haowen Chan
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Actually, thanks to Justin Smith for archiving that little nugget for us on aikiweb. Couldn't have found it without his help.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12865

If he's on your ignore list, try this link instead:

http://denner.org/reinhard/neijia/pe...Exercises.html

Last edited by Haowen Chan : 02-26-2008 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:41 PM   #13
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Goodness... I first posted how to train for that trick about ten years ago on the old Neijia list. And a few times since then. Funny how things come back around. It's part of basic qing-gong ("lightness exercises"). I used to even show it sometimes at workshops. Of course, it's probably a "koryu secret", but we never knew it.

Best.

Mike
Hi Mike,

I wasn't looking around ten years ago. So, it's new to me.
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Old 02-29-2008, 12:56 PM   #14
Michael McCaslin
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

This video of Dan John describing the proper way to do some Olympic lifts may provide some clues. Be warned, it's 50 minutes long. Towards the end, Dan is showing someone proper squat techniqe and he walks the person through two ways to do a long jump-- one with the legs bending, and the other with locked legs powered by the torso. The person jumps much further with the second version.

I don't think the motion Dan describes is as subtle as the internal jump, but I think it does provide some pointers as to where the engine is and how to become acquainted with it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81301858251744
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:18 PM   #15
Upyu
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Michael McCaslin wrote: View Post
This video of Dan John describing the proper way to do some Olympic lifts may provide some clues. Be warned, it's 50 minutes long. Towards the end, Dan is showing someone proper squat techniqe and he walks the person through two ways to do a long jump-- one with the legs bending, and the other with locked legs powered by the torso. The person jumps much further with the second version.

I don't think the motion Dan describes is as subtle as the internal jump, but I think it does provide some pointers as to where the engine is and how to become acquainted with it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81301858251744
I'll second that, it's good "#$t. Guy has a good understanding of biomechanics. Now if he could only take it a step further!
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:17 AM   #16
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Haowen Chan wrote: View Post
Actually, thanks to Justin Smith for archiving that little nugget for us on aikiweb. Couldn't have found it without his help.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12865
You're welcome. I like real physics.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:41 PM   #17
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Justin,

Might we see you at the Aunkai seminar at the end of May?

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Old 03-16-2008, 03:13 PM   #18
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Justin,

Might we see you at the Aunkai seminar at the end of May?
Nope. I'll be fencing.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:10 PM   #19
Erick Mead
 
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

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Justin Smith wrote: View Post
Nope. I'll be fencing.
So...., do you prefer split rail, plank or chain link?

I'm a wrought-iron man, myself.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:43 PM   #20
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Oh that kind of fencing. I assumed it was dealing with buying and recieivng stolen property. What a relief! I like electric fences personally, especially when they are powered by Ki.

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Old 03-16-2008, 07:00 PM   #21
Upyu
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
So...., do you prefer split rail, plank or chain link?

I'm a wrought-iron man, myself.
Bad sign Justin, even Erick's gettin feisty towards you
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:04 PM   #22
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

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Bad sign Justin, even Erick's gettin feisty towards you
Rob, your divining of my intention, as usual, goes consistently astray ...

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:15 PM   #23
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

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Rob, your divining of my intention, as usual, goes consistently astray ...
My bad...actually was givin you the benefit of the doubt.
Didn't know that you were partial to trolls
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:26 PM   #24
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

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Bad sign Justin, even Erick's gettin feisty towards you
I'm not much interested in looking at a person's character. How about let's hear your explanation if you believe it is an "internal (whatever that means) jump" or not?

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:39 AM   #25
MM
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Re: How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?

Jun,
I started this thread, but if statisticool (Justin) is going to keep commenting on it, could you please close it? I'd rather not have the thread degenerate further.

Thanks,
Mark
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