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Old 01-24-2008, 02:00 PM   #26
Bronson
 
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

If you tell us where you currently or plan to live, someone can probably recommend a dojo close by for you to visit. Heck, you may live just around the corner from one of the Aikido greats

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:10 PM   #27
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

I don't think such a list exists, so it's a question of asking around I think.

Here's one in Switzerland: http://www.aikidomontreux.com/EN_uchideshi.html

My teacher's teacher's dojo in Liverpool has enough classes to fill a week nicely, though you'd have to find a place to stay yourself since the dojo doesn't have live-in space: http://www.komyokan.aikido.co.uk/timetable.html

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:11 PM   #28
Will Prusner
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Quote:
Diane Lasken wrote: View Post
an English speaking dojo.
I find this somewhat humorous... but i'm not sure why...

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration...

ART! - http://birdsbeaks.blogspot.com/
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:26 PM   #29
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Check out Aikido Nippon Kan in Denver, they have a well documented uchideshi-system.
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:42 PM   #30
justin
Location: swansea wales
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

may i ask why you are seeking out 7th dans not that i have anything against them before someone points that out, just there are so many great instructors out there 1,2,3,4 who might fit the bill better for you.
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:33 PM   #31
Diane878
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Quote:
Justin Thomas wrote: View Post
may i ask why you are seeking out 7th dans not that i have anything against them before someone points that out, just there are so many great instructors out there 1,2,3,4 who might fit the bill better for you.
I'm interested in learning from the best and I take the assumption that 7th through 10th dans tend to be better at teaching than 1st through 4th.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:04 PM   #32
Bronson
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Quote:
Diane Lasken wrote: View Post
I'm interested in learning from the best and I take the assumption that 7th through 10th dans tend to be better at teaching than 1st through 4th.
That assumption is, in my opinion, flawed.

Just because someone is a high level practitioner doesn't mean they are a high level teacher. And just because someone has a reputation as a good teacher doesn't mean (s)he will be the best teacher for you. The teacher/student relationship in a martial art setting is something rather unique for westerners. It can be very personal and challenging. It is worth the time to find the teacher that you can connect with and learn the best from. And in general dan ranking has very little to do with that.

To quote an earlier post:
Quote:
As for learning from the best...I always wonder when beginners say this. I want to learn to play tennis, and I've never picked up a racket -- should I seek out lessons from Roger Federer? That seems pointless, and maybe a little bit presumptuous. He's the greatest tennis player in the world, and I'm a rank beginner -- why would anyone think that I needed his instruction to learn tennis, or could benefit from it?
Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:01 AM   #33
roadster
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Ah, another plug for the Uchi Deshi blog.

http://uchi-deshi.blogspot.com/
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Old 01-25-2008, 06:49 AM   #34
Joe Bowen
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Diane,

Not to seem rude or anything but I think you are not really paying attention to what folks are taking the time to write for your benefit. An Uchideshi program is not something you can just look up in the yellow pages. If you had looked at the Aikido of San Leandro Website you would see that a) an uchideshi does not receive any payment for the work that they do at the dojo b) an uchideshi must pay for the privilege of being an uchideshi and living and training in the dojo and c) a recommendation from an aikido instructor is required to participate in the uchideshi program. Given your $3500, you would only be able to participate in this particular program for a maximum of 6 months which would include your monthly fee of $500, your $100 registration fee, your $200 gift to the dojo leaving you with $200 for food for the 6 months. Not a pretty picture. Not to mention the fact that you don't have a recommendation from anyone to even get into the program.
While I have not been an uchideshi, no uchideshi program that I am aware of takes folks that just walk in off the street.
The Aikido of San Leandro is just one example of an uchideshi program but I'll wager that it is a good model to give you a general idea of what you'll need to participate in any uchideshi program.
To serve as you internet "jimminy cricket" let's take an overseas example of an uchideshi program in Japan, with an aikido dojo run by an 8th dan Aikikai, Kobayashi Dojos. General expenses:

Quote:
Fees:
A trainee needs to pay for his/her own expenses. Expenses include transportation, meals, the fee for living in the dojo, training fees, and any other expenses for personal needs.
Transportation expense includes both travels to and from Japan, and in Japan: metro (subway), busses, trains, etc.
Meals include both the food that a trainee buys to him/herself and the meals that the trainee participates (for example, a trainee must pay his/her share of dojo breakfasts on Friday mornings).
Lodging fee and instruction fee must be paid to Kobayashi Dojo in cash monthly. It covers the use of dojo materials and equipment.
A trainee must pay the training fees to those dojos other than Kobayashi Dojo for extra training sessions. For example, if he/she visits Hombu dojo for an extra training while participating the live-in training program at Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, he/she must pay a visitor fee to Hombu dojo. Moreover, a trainee must pay his/her expenses if he/she attends any Aikido seminars and camps.
A trainee can use the dojo computers with Internet connection when it is agreed with the person in charge at the dojo.
The fees at Aikido Kobayashi Dojo:

Lodging fee: 30,000 yen per month
Instruction fee: 10,000 yen per month

Qualification requirements:
1.Those who wish to become live-in trainees should talk to the shihan or other person in charge of any dojo affiliated with Aikido Kobayashi Dojo or one of the overseas aikido organizations which has instructional ties to it. After making initial contact through this person, the approval of the head of Aikido Kobayashi Dojo is required prior to beginning training.
2.Live-in trainees must provide a letter of recommendation from the shihan or head instructor of their aikido organization, and will also be required to sign a contract outlining the rules and responsibilities of live-in training.
3.Live-in trainees must obtain a guarantor. In the event that the trainee causes a traffic accident, he/she and the guarantor will share responsibility for whatever liability is incurred.
4.Aikido Kobayashi Dojo must be informed of the date or period of intended training prior to the trainees arrival.
5.Trainees should be behave at all times in the awareness and with a sense of pride in being live-in trainees, and should be diligent in their aikido practice.
6.Trainees must strive to understand well and respect the customs and routines of life in a dojo.
7.As a trainee of Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, one must try to be on good terms with other members of the dojo, and refrain from doing anything that might bother or create a sense of mistrust among other members or residents of the neighborhood of the dojo.
8.Trainees may not be absent from a scheduled practice without first giving a reason. In cases of an anticipated absence, one should contact the head of the dojo or one of the instructors beforehand to explain the situation.
9.Trainees must contact the head of the dojo (Dojo-cho) or one of the instructors prior to spending a night away from the dojo.
10.Trainees should pay the instruction and lodging fees for their training prior to the starting date of their period of training.
11.In the event that a trainee wishes to test for a promotion of dan or kyu rank while at Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, he or she must first obtain the permission of the shihan or other person in charge of the aikido organization to which they belong.
12.As space to store personal belongings is limited at the dojo and Kumegawa Lodge, live-in trainees should be prepared to make do with only their most necessary possession for the period of their stay.
Note: 40,000 yen = $372; cost of living in Tokyo is high and plane tickets to Japan are around $1,000-2,000.

So, please listen to what is being said [written] and find a job, and join a dojo, then pursue your dream intelligently. I'm not pointing these things out to discourage you but to help you make an informed decision.
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:43 AM   #35
stuarttheobald
Dojo: Shoshinkai
Location: Nottingham
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

The fact that you seem to be totally ignoring the advice given here screams to me that you will find it quite hard to be a full time student.

The humility and steepness of the learning curve, even for part time students, is high. Stepping into an Uchidehsi role without having sampled it before will be very difficult.

I will echo what has been said a dozen times already, try it first at a local club. No amount of research will prepare you for what it is like and the demands it puts on you physically, and more importantly mentally.

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Old 01-25-2008, 10:15 AM   #36
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Gianluigi is technically quite correct. The Senshusei course approximates the uchideshi experience, but it does not meet the full requirements that a traditional definition of that experience would entail. I do think that in these modern times, it does give a pretty fair approximation, and it is definately more difficult than your average aikido training.

Speaking of the strict definition, most of the people who claim to be uchideshi to Ueshiba since the war would not meet the strict definition themselves.

Best,
Ron

Quote:
Gianluigi Pizzuto wrote: View Post
I might be wrong, but these are not Uchideshi. A Uchideshi is someone who lives and trains with his Sensei 24 hours a day (O Sensei was famous for waking up in the middle of the night and attacking his Uchideshi to check their awareness). A Uchideshi also protect his Sensei (well, probably nowadays no longer need for that). A Uchideshi doesn't really have a personal life. For sure no other job, no school or no training in any other job... I am not sure about sentimental life.
For what I consider to be an Uchideshi the 2 above offers are far far away from being a real Uchideshi system. Above all the one in San Leandro which will charge for everything, even the night classes. Those are schools that offer regular teaching but in addition can give you a place where to sleep at a cheaper rate than sleeping in a rental place.
This is just my opinion, but I wouldn't call those "systems" Uchideshi, but after all as Saotome Shihan said more than once, nowadays it makes no sense of speaking of a Uchideshi System.

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:33 PM   #37
Larry Cuvin
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Hi Diane,
Please do your self a big favor and get some mat experience. Also be realistic on your goal and assess what you have and what might it take to get to your goal. Think of some "what if" scenarios like changing style after not liking what you got into. Or, what if I get injured and have to stop for a while. I know that you have the time but you have to have resources as well. Good luck.

Larry

Plus Ki
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:13 PM   #38
Pierre Kewcharoen
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Somebody's been watching too many kungfu movies. Get some experience first before making a huge jump like this. If you are dedicated as you say you are, you would have at least learned to speak japanese or at least the language of the country that you plan to go to. Im sorry to be putting down someone but this is comical almost to the point of sounding like a fake poster.

First steps should be take a class and experience it firsthand. After a few years then decide if you want to fully commit.

If you decide that you want to commit and find a higher rank teacher, you should do your own research and find the person that you want to learn from. What their background is or you might find someone who claim that they are 15th dan and can shoot invisible ki balls at people.

Typically you don't have the luxury of having a school out of the country be required to speak english to you. If your going to japan be prepared to learn japanese. If you going to france you better learn french etc.

If you plan to travel, you are gonna need more money than 3k. Remember places like Japan, the Japanese Yen is worth more money than american dollars. You are better off traveling there through a program like JET whre you can teach japanese kids english. At least you have a place to stay and are paid.

Last edited by Pierre Kewcharoen : 01-25-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:48 PM   #39
mathewjgano
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Quote:
Pierre Kewcharoen wrote: View Post
If you plan to travel, you are gonna need more money than 3k. Remember places like Japan, the Japanese Yen is worth more money than american dollars. You are better off traveling there through a program like JET whre you can teach japanese kids english. At least you have a place to stay and are paid.
Good advice! I'm assuming by saying, "school," University was the meaning in which case the JET program would be a great way to go to Japan. My wife was in the program for 2 years (which is how I was able to experience the Himeji Shodokan club). It varies from region to region, but generally speaking you get paid well and have plenty of free time to do other things like train in Aikido, etc.
Plus, if Diane is largely looking to travel and be immersed in a new environment, that might be a great way to kill two birds with one stone...something to consider at any rate.
Take care.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:51 PM   #40
cserrit
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Quote:
Joseph Bowen wrote: View Post
Diane,

Not to seem rude or anything but I think you are not really paying attention to what folks are taking the time to write for your benefit.
I agree. If advice is asked, then an attempt to head the advice is needed. I know it is difficult to read/listen to advice that goes against what I assume to be "the best aikidoka you want to be."

Think about what would happen if you immersed yourself in a program (in another country) that you knew very little about and then had a serious personality conflict with one of it members or maybe even the sensei...You might be stuck and have to use what limited income you had left to return home or move to another dojo to start over.

Check out all the leads and trust your own eyes and ears as to what is best for you. Everyone on this site is wonderful at giving advice and truly want to see you succeed. However, you need to live your own life and learn by your own mistakes and accomplishments. Take it one step at a time and you will get to your final goal.

-C
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:11 PM   #41
Sy Labthavikul
Dojo: Aikido Academy USA of Alhambra
Location: Los Angeles area, CA
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Don't many uchideshi programs require a letter of introduction from your current sensei, a sort of recommendation that basically says "this person in front of you isn't insane, won't walk out on the program, is decent at aikido and I sorta like him"?

And for what its worth, I agree with the majority of what everyone is saying in this thread: it just seems a very romantic notion to travel abroad to somewhere exotic and train with some highly ranked exponent of this mysterious and awesome art for a year or so. How do you even know you will enjoy aikido when you start doing it? I personally remember researching Olympic style fencing for 2 or 3 years, watching videos and such, before ever learning it. I was most definitely passionate about it. When I finally did study fencing, I even trained with an Olympic class fencer and also a national champion (two great coaches, lucky me), but after a year of it, I realized fencing just didn't have that appeal to me anymore. Of course, this was AFTER spending several thousand dollars on lessons, equipment, and tournament fees.

Do I regret it? Hell no, it was a wonderful experience and I'm actually using principles of fencing in my aikido (the concept of stop-cutting helps me a LOT with my irimi and preemptive atemi). But what you're proposing is a much huger investment than what I put into fencing, and the risks of disappointment greater.

I mean, would you buy a car before test driving it?


---------------------------------
train as if the tengu will never visit, execute as if they already have
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:59 AM   #42
TCSSEC
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Noting it has been almost 12 months since the original postings and the issues raised, there is Australia:

Michiharu Mori Sensei, 7th Dan
http://www.yoshinkan.info/index.php?pageID=Sensei

Joe Thambu Sensei 7th Dan, http://www.aikidoshudokan.com/shudokan.htm

Darren Friend Sensei 5th Dan and Peggy Woo Sensei 4th Dan
http://aikido-sydney.com.au/dojo/instructors

... And others in this part of the globe.

good luck!
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:43 PM   #43
mwible
Dojo: Aikido of Suenaka-Ha in Greater Richmond
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Quote:
Diane Lasken wrote: View Post
Hi! I've always wanted to learn Aikido, but I wanted to finish my schooling first. I have a couple more months and then I'm done.

I've never taken an Aikido class before, so I am completely fresh.

I'm looking to learn from someone who is 7th Dan or higher and am willing to invest 1 to 2 years full time anywhere in the world.

Where do you suggest I train and who would I contact about getting the training?
The head of my organizations is one of the most knowledgable instructor's out there, and studied directly under Tohei sensei and O'Sensei himself.
His name is Roy Y. Suenaka Sensei, and his Hombu dojo is in Charleston, South Carolina. And he currently holds the ranks of 8th dan in both Aikido and Karate-do.
I would highly recomend studying there; i wish i could afford to do the same, haha
And his website is at http://www.suenaka.com/

-morgan

"When you bow deeply to the universe, it bows back; when you call out the name of God, it echoes inside you." - O' sensei
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:02 AM   #44
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: New Person Training Full Time

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Diane, I am sure you will get many excellent recommendations. One suggestion that I would like to make is that you contact Pat Hendricks Sensei at Aikido of San Leandro (CA). In addition to having her own well-regarded uchideschi program, she has participated in the Iwama, Japan uchideshi programs of Morihiro and Hitohiro Saito Sensei for many years. Hendricks Sensei is a wonderful technician and person, and if you are serious about this undertaking (and it certainly sounds like you are), I know she would be only too happy to offer valuable insights into your options, and help you any way she can, as she has walked this very path herself.
On that note, I'd go right to Hitohiro's Dojo in Iwama and experience their uchi-deshi program, which ranges in commitments from weeks to months. His uchi-deshi program is well established.
When you return to the US you could take up residence at Pat Hendrick's dojo and continue in the same tradition.

Pat is a wonderful teacher and a beautiful person. She loved Saito Sensei and he treated her well. It shows through and through!

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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