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Old 09-04-2006, 09:23 PM   #1
shadowedge
 
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7 year old applies self defense

Last weekend, I found out that my girlfriend's kid brother (7 years old) got into a fight his with four bullies.

My gf's mom was the one telling me about it. The other kids were always jealous of him (Matthew). good grades, better stuff, etc etc. Mom said that they've been picking on Matthew for months, and that he'd always let it go. But last July, 4 of his bullies ganged up on him. They beat him up really bad. He got bruised and scarred. there was blood. But he waited until he bled before he used Aikido.

After that Mom was called by the principal, and the 4 kids plus Matthew were there. the 4 kids got suspended but the principal had a talk with mom about why he was taught aikido this early. Mom was really proud of Matthew, and said in hs defense that he'd been very patient with them up until he couldn't take any more.

Matthew's mom was very thankful that he went with me during training last year. We never intended to teach him, but because sensei was very accomodating, he just sorta joined in.

Mom and my gf are thankful, and so is Matthew. He was able to survive the trauma, this was his first fight after all. He gained the admiration of some of his peers, and the continued envy of others.

I have mixed feelings about this. I somehow feel proud of him, but I'm not sure if it was right... Should he just have taken it? Or was it right for him to stand up to the oppression?

Last edited by shadowedge : 09-04-2006 at 09:24 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:33 PM   #2
aikidoc
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

I feel he handled things quite well. I'm curious, what did he do to the bullies?
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:33 PM   #3
mjchip
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
Rene Vencer, Jr wrote:
Last weekend, I found out that my girlfriend's kid brother (7 years old) got into a fight his with four bullies.

My gf's mom was the one telling me about it. The other kids were always jealous of him (Matthew). good grades, better stuff, etc etc. Mom said that they've been picking on Matthew for months, and that he'd always let it go. But last July, 4 of his bullies ganged up on him. They beat him up really bad. He got bruised and scarred. there was blood. But he waited until he bled before he used Aikido.

After that Mom was called by the principal, and the 4 kids plus Matthew were there. the 4 kids got suspended but the principal had a talk with mom about why he was taught aikido this early. Mom was really proud of Matthew, and said in hs defense that he'd been very patient with them up until he couldn't take any more.

Matthew's mom was very thankful that he went with me during training last year. We never intended to teach him, but because sensei was very accomodating, he just sorta joined in.

Mom and my gf are thankful, and so is Matthew. He was able to survive the trauma, this was his first fight after all. He gained the admiration of some of his peers, and the continued envy of others.

I have mixed feelings about this. I somehow feel proud of him, but I'm not sure if it was right... Should he just have taken it? Or was it right for him to stand up to the oppression?
Hi,

I believe you answered your own uncertainty in earlier paragraphs of your post. Let me repeat what you said:

1. But last July, 4 of his bullies ganged up on him.

2. They beat him up really bad. He got bruised and scarred. there was blood.

3. But he waited until he bled before he used Aikido.

If it were my son (thankfully I have a few more years as he's only 2 now), I would tell him that he did the right thing. I would also reinforce to him that this power, this ability to defend oneself should only be used when there are no other options (like rapid egress from the situation).

Regards,

Mark
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Old 09-05-2006, 02:05 AM   #4
kocakb
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
Rene Vencer, Jr wrote:
He got bruised and scarred. there was blood. But he waited until he bled before he used Aikido.
Personally, I don't agree that he did completely the true thing. Are we not learning a MA to protect ourselves? to not to get injured? Should we think the attacker more than we think of us? are they more important than me?

I don't say that he should break the guys bones etc, but is it correct to wait to use what we have learnt until I get bruises and bled? If someone(s), worse with 4 guys, attacks me, at the end of the fight, the guys should have bruises, even little blood, not me.

Aikido is love, but I can love people as long as I love myself.
Just my opinion...
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:13 AM   #5
ian
 
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
Rene Vencer, Jr wrote:
Should he just have taken it? Or was it right for him to stand up to the oppression?
No - its absolutely wrong to stand up to oppression. It is far better to allow these bullies to get a sense of satisfaction from displacing their anger and jealousy on an inoccent person. He should have used his face to blend more effectively with their punches allowing them to feel that they had won a victory and that this strategy of bullying was a successful one

Seriously though - you have to be joking! I think this idea of aikido as somehow 'passive' is completely wrong, and indeed potentially dangerous. Aikido should be a way of resolving such problems fairly. Obviously gratuitous violence is often just storing up problems for the future (unless you completely destroy your enemy) - however firm and fair self-protection is surely justified. Good on him I'd certainly say. Four on one is in no way fair - and indeed many self-defence instructors would say being threatened by such numbers would justify premptive striking and indeed a very violent response.

The headmaster probably has to have this response due to the stupid 'pollitically correct' school discipline system which currently exists in some countries (such as the UK). I would say, using aikido for self-defence is the best advert for aikido, and if these bullies took it up it would be a great success. True victory may be self-victory, but it is certainly not simple capitulation. As long as we don't dehumanise our attackers I think we have a chance of working towards peace.

Last edited by ian : 09-05-2006 at 03:15 AM.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 09-05-2006, 11:09 PM   #6
~Socrates~
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Even the most docile animal will allow you to handle, bother, and even slightly harass it... UNTIL, and then there is a lashing out of simple primitive self preservation. Practice of AIKIDO allows one to flow with others, to love and walk in the way, but based on the story, there were no broken bones on the assailants, no blood, and no overkill? Thus, a 7 year old succeeded in realizing that he did love himself enough not to allow further bodily harm but most importantly he loved the criminals enough not to overly cause injury either! Give this boy a green beltů. He has earned it, at least in my heart!

-Soc
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Old 09-06-2006, 07:16 AM   #7
dps
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Dittos on what Socarates said, the seven year old is my new hero.
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:50 PM   #8
jxa127
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Good for the 7-year old!

Four on one attacks are a pain, and it's good that the kid handled himself well.

He absolutely did the right thing.

I was bullied in grade school and high school, and it really only ended when I started fighting back. It's a shame, but that's the way it goes sometimes.



Regards,

----
-Drew Ames
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Old 09-07-2006, 05:34 AM   #9
Steve Mullen
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Big up the little guy, nice show.

"No matter your pretence, you are what you are and nothing more." - Kenshiro Abbe Shihan
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:39 AM   #10
Nick Simpson
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Good for him. It's unfortuante that the situation in school is that if you defend yoruself successfully you end up getting treated the sameas the aggressors.Thats why sometimesyou haveto play the smartrole and let someone see you getting hit before you kick the f*ck out of them.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:17 PM   #11
David Racho
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Philippines right? I'm here too. I say, it's a good idea that he bled first a little. Because if the 4 boys got hurt and he didn't, it might not look too good. But if the 7 year old kid got hurt first, and there was proof (bleeding) then his self-defense will be better accepted by authorities.

I mean, if the 4 bullies were bleeding and Matthew (the 7 year old kid) in this case was not, and there were no other witnesses (it didn't seem like there were otherwise it would have stopped) then the teachers might have thought he started it or something.

Overall, good for Matthew. Congrats on a bright new young student, I hope he keeps up the practice.

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Old 09-19-2006, 12:14 PM   #12
mriehle
 
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

My response would be this:

http://www.newschoolaikido.com/stori...goriostory.pdf

Look, defending yourself is not the wrong thing to do. Defending yourself with unnecessary violence would be wrong. Most schools will talk a big story about "zero-tolerance", but IME tolerate bullies and punish those who defend themselves.

Using Aikido to defend yourself without a violent response puts the school administrators in the position where the have no choice but to apply consequences to the bullies and are hard-pressed to justify punishment of the person defending themselves. This, IMO, is absolutely the Right Thing To Do.

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Old 09-23-2006, 10:58 AM   #13
senseimel
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

The kid already achieved some of the important principles of Aikido, Patience and Humility was applied here. He waited till he bleed first, he respected the Ki of his opponents and used their strenght against them. But we should not always forget to teach and guide our children to let them know when and not to use it.
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Old 09-23-2006, 11:35 AM   #14
ChrisHein
 
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

How do you know that the AIkido helped him?

-Chris Hein
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:43 PM   #15
Roman Kremianski
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

The kid kicked ass.

Quote:
Patience and Humility was applied here. He waited till he bleed first,
You're saying you have to get injured before you finally make your move?
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:15 PM   #16
shadowedge
 
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
Patience and Humility was applied here. He waited till he bleed first,
Yeah he waited, but I don't think it always means we have to wait till we get injured. I believe it is up to each of us to judge when the right time should be.

Im really happy for him.

Strange thing is, even though he beat 4 of his bullies, he's still afraid to go with me to the carnival's Haunted House!
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Old 11-05-2006, 10:36 AM   #17
Selnith
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

good for him, i'd be proud of him too if i were you, and reinforce that he did the right thing, waiting for them to attack then defending himself
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Old 11-06-2006, 05:34 AM   #18
ian
 
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
Rene Vencer, Jr wrote:
I believe it is up to each of us to judge when the right time should be.
Absolutely - a conflict is so much more than what it appears on the surface. A judgement has to be made at the time and you have to live with that judgement.

Maybe this is too early to say, and as above, requires judgement at the time, but if one of the children had been carrying a knife this 7 year old may well be dead now. Letting someone 'attack you a bit' IMHO is not a good strategy. He did well, but there is always luck involved and one small error of judgement can end our life - maybe thats the beauty of Budo though, and that's why aikido (and self-defence) is far more than learning techniques.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:29 PM   #19
GnosticWarrior
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

A quote from: Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere by A. Westbrook & O. Ratti

The "Ethics" of Defense

In Panel D, we have the ultimate in ethical self-defense. Neither attacking nor provoking an attack, the man on the left defends himself in such a way, with such skill and control that the attacker is not killed. In this case he is not even seriously injured. This last and highest level is the goal of all aikido self-defense arts. It requires skill: the result of intensive practice of the technical means of defense devised by the founder, Master Uyeshiba. But it requires more than that. It requires an ethical intention. A man must sincerely desire to defend himself without hurting others. He must be well on the way toward integration of mind and body, of physical means and ethical motives.

O-Sensei was highly trained in MA but also very spiritual. Aikido is the merging of the two. You can see the difference in approaches when you see those MMA practitioners of the UFC and others. What's lacking there is the spiritual consciousness. In its most ideal form any MA is not for show, not for making money, and not for conquering others. Instead its an art to protect and preserve the divine right to live in peace with ethics, where one is willing to face death with love and without fear. If one has fear, he hates, he desires to kill. Love is the opposite of fear. The evolution of man is to survive in this world in fear, but with education and training, learning to live instead with love.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:47 PM   #20
shadowedge
 
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Very well said Marcus.
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:05 PM   #21
Aristeia
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
Marcus Akiyama wrote:
In its most ideal form any MA is not for show, not for making money, and not for conquering others. Instead its an art to protect and preserve the divine right to live in peace with ethics, where one is willing to face death with love and without fear.
you do realise this is a highly subjective assertion right?

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 11-16-2006, 06:59 PM   #22
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
you do realise this is a highly subjective assertion right?
Yes, that's true. In reality, many MA's have different Ideals. My primary intent was to focus on the fact that there can be many paths that lead to the same direction.
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:12 PM   #23
Aristeia
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

I'm not even sure they have to move in the same direction. Problem with martial arts is everyone thinks people are doing it for the same reason they are, even though when asked most people find it hard to express exactly why it is they train. I know i do. As long as we're all having fun it's all good :-)

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 11-29-2006, 09:24 PM   #24
Douglas Fajardo
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
I feel he handled things quite well. I'm curious, what did he do to the bullies?
very well ,BUT WHAT DID HE DO TO THE BULLIES I WANNNA KNOW, MAYBE KOKYU NAGE JAJAJAJ THAT'S THE WAY I LIKE IT JAJAJA GOOD FOR HIM BUT WHY HE WAIT SO LONG I PREFER TO MOVE BEFORE THE PUNCH ,TAISABAKI
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Old 11-30-2006, 08:22 PM   #25
Chiburi
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Re: 7 year old applies self defense

I think the seven year old was completely justified. However, I do think he should have acted sooner.

Then again, when I was in third grade, there was a group of kids who liked to beat me up. I asked Sensei what to do if someone kicked me, and he taught me maegeri kokyunage (sp?), which I applied the very next day. It took me a long time and many bruises before I used it. When you're a little kid, it's hard to react "properly" or with sufficient timing. Better late than never, right? I'm so happy to know that there are children who defend themselves at school. The majority (not all) of teachers are useless when it comes to bullies.

So the original post was unsure if it was the correct thing to do. How is it even a question in your mind? Of course he was right to defend himself. I remember a quote I read in some other post, "O-Sensei teaches us to be merciful, not nice."

To this day, maegeri is one of my favorite techniques, possibly favored high above all other.

That kid is awesome!

Shinma Hukumetsu
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