"Mudansha", "Kyusha", "Yukyusha"

Mainly, we kyusha do just have to be patient and learn.[/quote]

sorry can't resist. i very seldom join in but i thought i'd say, the usual term is mudansha

cheers and i'm out again

I think "kyusha" is a lovely word. Some people tend to forget that Japanese is a building block language, and some people forget that "aikido" is a word O'Sensei made up out of building blocks. Some people seem to feel that only native Japanese people are allowed to do this.

The word "mudansha" implies,to my mind, a state of "not having" as in, "I don't have rank because I don't have a dan grading";whereas the word "kyusha" implies to me a state of "having" as in " I have a ranking of 2nd kyu". Coming from a negatively-oriented person, I'd rather be though of as a "have" than a "have not".

I realize this is a "no yudansha allowed" conversation, but the proper term is most definitely "mudansha." As far as I've been able to tell in 20-some years of studying the Japanese language, there exists no such word as "kyusha" as is intended in this context.

It's fun to make up faux Japanese words and translations that make us feel good, I guess. Don't be surprised if nobody understands you, though.

Don't even get me started on the nonsensical break down of Aikido into ai + ki + do...

Back to the "adult" table...

Jo Adell wrote: I think "kyusha" is a lovely word. Some people tend to forget that Japanese is a building block language, and some people forget that "aikido" is a word O'Sensei made up out of building blocks. Some people seem to feel that only native Japanese people are allowed to do this.

I'd say that only people with a working knowledge of the language should do that. Since I don't have a working knowledge of the language, I don't do that. Sorry, but there is a right and a wrong to many things in life. That's just the way it is.

The word "mudansha" implies,to my mind, a state of "not having" as in, "I don't have rank because I don't have a dan grading";whereas the word "kyusha" implies to me a state of "having" as in " I have a ranking of 2nd kyu". Coming from a negatively-oriented person, I'd rather be though of as a "have" than a "have not".

I guess I'm just surprised that anyone would have to make up a word that doesn't exist to feel better about something that doesn't make any difference anyway. I've been tossed by people with literally no rank as well as people with rank. Women as well as men. Small people as well as big...you get the idea.

Anyhoo, butting out.

Best,
Ron

Only reason i have used "kyusha" is because, along with "mudansha" are terms we use in kendo.

Everyone without grade is mudansha, if you have a kyu grade you are kyusha (and mudansha)... i didn't make this up.

Bloody know-it-alls, really!

Ah, then I stand corrected. Or sit...

Best,
Ron

I have heard the term Yukyusha before. In the USAF, kyu ranked students are issued Yukyusha books, as opposed to the Yudansha books issued to Dan grades.

There are a couple of us in our dojo that are non-degree seeking students (for lack of a better term) who choose just to train and not focus on achieving rank. It would be kinda nice to have a second term since we literally are "mudansha" by choice to differentiate those who seek rank from those who (for whatever reason) do not. But then as Ron said, semantics don't really count for much on the mats. =)

Lori

Someone with better knowledge of the language and the traditional Japanese elements involved can probably correct me here if needed, but I am almost certain that below Sho Dan (1st level) one in fact is without rank, regardless of Kyu level. In this context mudansha makes perfect sense, unlike the others.

Just a thought.

Lori Snidow wrote: There are a couple of us in our dojo that are non-degree seeking students (for lack of a better term) who choose just to train and not focus on achieving rank. It would be kinda nice to have a second term since we literally are "mudansha" by choice to differentiate those who seek rank from those who (for whatever reason) do not. But then as Ron said, semantics don't really count for much on the mats. =) Lori

I've had similar conversations with someone else. It confuses me. If people choose not to "focus on acheiving rank" then they are making usually a pretty strong statement on rank being unimportant to them (as in many orgs you will be graded eventually unless you actively avoid). that being the case, how does it bother the self same people that they are confused with other unranked students?

Hey, *I* did not bring up the word and really do not appreciate having this discussion 'blamed" on me. The "other" Jo started this particular discussion, I was just saying that *I* like the word. It works for me, in this country, in a vernacular that doesn't ever have to be brought up in Japan.

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe.

- Jabberwocky by Charles Lutwidge Dogdson (Lewis Carroll)