Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2007, 07:00 AM   #1
dps
 
dps's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,344
Offline
Voices of Inexperience

This thread is for those of us who are of kyu rank in Aikido and currently practicing ( no matter how many years you have been practicing) to express our thoughts and frustrations learning Aikido. Please keep the posting civil and respectful toward each other and especially comments about our Senseis and dan ranks.

No dan ranks need post except for Jun of course.

One of my biggest frustrations is when I understand what my sensei is telling me and showing me but not being able to do the technique. I practice at home until I have it then at the next practice I can't do it. It is as if I were doing the technique for the first time. Very confusing.

David

Last edited by dps : 11-08-2007 at 07:05 AM.

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 03:41 PM   #2
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Hi David,

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
One of my biggest frustrations is when I understand what my sensei is telling me and showing me but not being able to do the technique. I practice at home until I have it then at the next practice I can't do it. It is as if I were doing the technique for the first time. Very confusing.
Sorry for breaking the parameters of your thread right off the bat (I hold dan ranking) but I'm curious as to why you might think that dan ranks don't deal with these very same issues. One thing that I've been told and have since noticed to be true is that people of every level continue to make the same mistakes. It's just that the people with more experience and awareness have more tools to correct the mistakes and are able to correct them sooner; often before others even knew a mistake had been made.

I'm reminded of a story that somebody posted here once. Their sensei was an uchideshi to O Sensei. Once while they were alone he mentioned to O Sensei that he always had difficulty keeping his balance during a particular technique. O Sensei replied "Yes, so do I".

For some reason that fills me with hope for my own meager ability

I'll shall now bow out as per your request

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 04:02 PM   #3
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

A forum parody... nice one Dave...

Oops... sorry, but I must excuse myself even though I consider myself a beginner in almost everything....

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 04:13 PM   #4
Angela Dunn
Dojo: Hartlepool/Peterlee/Billingham
Location: Hartlepool,UK
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 69
England
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Yellow belt here so I think I count.

I am with you on your point David

When I can not remember names of techniques that I should know by now. Similarly when I can not remember how to do a technique that was for previous belts...scarily this seems to be happening more than I would like.
People telling me to relax in techniques. The second that word comes out I tense up even more! That's really frustrating.

Uncooperative ukes, (yes I am guilty of being one myself till people point out what I am doing and make me aware of it. l working on it but its still frustrating on both sides) On a similar note I have encountered people in nationals who can see me struggling with a technique and get annoyed with me instead of trying to help.

People who don't let go so I can roll out of a technique so I have to tell them to let go. (I want to roll out properly before I get onto the scary break falls.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 04:21 PM   #5
Mattias Bengtsson
Dojo: Halmstad Aikidoklubb
Location: Halmstad
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 37
Sweden
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

When Im corrected by someone of a lower Kuy grade than me.
A friend of mine have just started so we discussed how to do the kotagaeshi, and he started to correct me (not in class, just hanging out together) on how the kotagaeshi was supposed to be done...

embarrassing, truly.

well, at least my ukemi, shihonage, kokuynages et al are much better than his...

Uke Iacta Est
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 06:11 PM   #6
dps
 
dps's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,344
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote: View Post
.... but I'm curious as to why you might think that dan ranks don't deal with these very same issues.
I don't.

David

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 06:46 PM   #7
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
This thread is for those of us who are of kyu rank in Aikido and currently practicing ( no matter how many years you have been practicing) to express our thoughts and frustrations learning Aikido. Please keep the posting civil and respectful toward each other and especially comments about our Senseis and dan ranks.

No dan ranks need post except for Jun of course.
That's not fair David, now I have two threads that I'm not aloud into Perhaps those of us dan grades with less than 20 years under our belts should start our own. But we'll remember you when you come knocking, after you have sucessfully taken your shodan grading

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 07:33 PM   #8
dps
 
dps's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,344
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

One of the reasons for this thread is to see if the dan ranks can refrain from commenting. A good parent sometimes needs to be quiet and listen and let the children talk amongst themselves.

David

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 07:33 PM   #9
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
That's not fair David, now I have two threads that I'm not aloud into Perhaps those of us dan grades with less than 20 years under our belts should start our own. But we'll remember you when you come knocking, after you have sucessfully taken your shodan grading

regards,

Mark
If someone wants to have a discussion among his peers, why interrupt? Bad form. The kyu level Aikidoka lack rank, not brains.

Don't butt in, especially after you have been asked not to. Sort of demonstrates why Dave felt the need to mention it.

Last edited by Nikopol : 11-08-2007 at 07:34 PM. Reason: spelling
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 07:41 PM   #10
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,340
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
One of my biggest frustrations is when I understand what my sensei is telling me and showing me but not being able to do the technique. I practice at home until I have it then at the next practice I can't do it. It is as if I were doing the technique for the first time.
Oh yes! But then there is the flip side of that, which is to practice something over and over, going from bad to worse, all left feet and 12 thumbs...then for whatever reasons, have to skip some classes, and on returning discover that somehow you got it into the brain/body when you weren't paying attention.

The learning process never ceases to surprise me!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2007, 08:00 PM   #11
dps
 
dps's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,344
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
Angela Dunn wrote: View Post
When I can not remember names of techniques that I should know by now.
I find myself mumbling the names throughout the day to try to remember them.

David

Last edited by dps : 11-08-2007 at 08:02 PM.

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 03:56 AM   #12
Beard of Chuck Norris
Dojo: Aberdeen Aikido Yuishinkai
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 181
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Well I'm 2nd kyu..

I have thought that a place for us newbs would be nice. So we can talk amongst ourselves without the need to inject a heavy dose of pompousness that seems to go hand in hand with the yudansha that post on here....

The biggest thing that gets me is that my ukemi only seems to get better in hefty doses i.e. it'll be rubbish to the point of it being nearly dangerous then all of a sudden it's ok... remains ok for a fair while, couple of bruises and bops to the head, maybe a dose of whiplash... then it gets better.... but only ever on one side!

I'd prefer a much more gradual, pain free learning curve... but, wouldn't we all.


Peace and love

J.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:04 AM   #13
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

That my sensei feels that my character development is not yet on a par with my technique. At 2nd kyu I am feeling a lot of pressure to "embody the qualities of a senir student" and as character development is my primary reason for training I am starting to feel inadequate.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 08:35 AM   #14
jason jordan
 
jason jordan's Avatar
Dojo: Dallas Aikikai/ Southlake Aikikai
Location: Southlake Texas
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 113
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
One of the reasons for this thread is to see if the dan ranks can refrain from commenting. A good parent sometimes needs to be quiet and listen and let the children talk amongst themselves.

David
OOOHHHH Good one.... DOH!!! commented!...Sorry Bye enjoy
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:01 AM   #15
Dyryke
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

My favorite frustration is an uke asking me to "take it easy" because they're not flexible, have a bad wrist, whatever... then proceed to pick apart your technique after you've made it more forgiving to accommodate them.

That's the point I delete their request from my memory and do the technique whole-heartedly. =)

Derek
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 09:45 AM   #16
Beard of Chuck Norris
Dojo: Aberdeen Aikido Yuishinkai
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 181
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Yeah, i think mis matches between nage and uke must be one of the big limiters in one's development.

Many things I would like to try out but i always say, "Could i take ukemi from this safely?" usually the answer is no, because... see my above post.
I guess it is good because well, it teaches you patience and respect for the person lending you their body!

Mainly, we kyusha do just have to be patient and learn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007, 11:50 PM   #17
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote: View Post
I'm reminded of a story that somebody posted here once. Their sensei was an uchideshi to O Sensei. Once while they were alone he mentioned to O Sensei that he always had difficulty keeping his balance during a particular technique. O Sensei replied "Yes, so do I". Bronson
Hail all you lowly kyu ranked p3epUL.... Boon The Superiorly DAN Ranked Pompous Al-Mightiness needs to correct Bronson.

I think it was a conversation between Jacques Payet and Kancho Shioda Gozo. Jacques was one of the earliest western uchi-deshi to Kancho. Their relationship was like that of friend and drinking buddy outside the mat.

One day, Kancho invited Jacques for beer in his office and Jacques asked Kancho what's the deal with Shumatsu-Dosa ni exercise, all these turning around and pivoting etc. Kancho looked at Jacques and said sternly and as a matter of fact... "It is not a big deal, I can't do it well either . Now lets have more beer."

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 12:25 AM   #18
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,340
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote: View Post
... I am starting to feel inadequate.
"starting"?!? HAHAHAHAHAH....I felt it every day for the first 2 years I trained....no, not meaning to make light of it, I know what you mean.
On the other hand, what I have found in my training is that it is when I am overwhelmed w/ feelings of having hit the wall of my own limitations, of feeling really inadequate--that is precisely when there is nothing to do but trust my teachers and seniors and keep slogging because I'm going to burst through off a plateau in a while.
--janet, the perennial and forever 2nd kyu

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 09:51 AM   #19
dps
 
dps's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,344
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

How did you start practicing Aikido?

I wrestled in high school and was looking for a Judo class at the university I was attending. Someone told me that there was a blackbelt in Aikido looking to start a club on campus and that Aikido was like Judo. So another student and myself started an Aikido club not knowing what we were going to practice.

David

Trust only movement. Life happens at the level of events not of words. Trust movement. --Alfred Adler
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 10:06 AM   #20
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
"starting"?!? HAHAHAHAHAH....I felt it every day for the first 2 years I trained....no, not meaning to make light of it, I know what you mean.
Ok, to finish the sentence- feeling inadequate as a Senior Student. As a 2nd kyu I KNOW I am inadequate, at least when it comes to other dojos. In my own dojo I really have no barometer to compare myself to,my immediate sempai was 2nd kyu for over 12 years, just a little beyond her rank.
And as I said, since I am training primarily for character development, I don't sem to be where Sensei thinks I should be, however we do LOTS of work on how things Are and how they "should be'.
Better run, class in 20 minutes!

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 05:25 PM   #21
RoyK
Dojo: Nishin Kan
Location: Herzliya
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Israel
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

I'm 3rd kyu.

Two things currently bother me:
One is that I feel that over the years I've mastered the art of handling lenient or resistive ukes and not the art of self defense. But I do have to admit that it wasn't that long ago when handling some of the more resistive ukes seemed like a hard goal to reach.

Second, I often feel like there are two approaches to training for me: One is being self criticizing, which leads to improvement but also to frustration, and the other is trying to just enjoy class, which leads to sloppy form but keeps me from leaving class with a sense of failure. It's a funny paradox, and so far I can't seem to find the balance between these two approaches that works for me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 03:34 AM   #22
Beard of Chuck Norris
Dojo: Aberdeen Aikido Yuishinkai
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 181
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Another thing is that the Dan grades just can't leave things alone can they?

Gots ta butt yer noses in don't ya!?

kyusha / mudansha, i use both terms, as both are correct.

that is all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 07:59 PM   #23
Stephen Webb
Dojo: Long Island Aikikai
Location: Long Island
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Been doing it for a year and a half now, fifth kyu but probably about to test for fourth or something.

For me one of the most frustrating things is when a new guy will start practicing with me and ask me "can you do a front roll?" Yes, I understand that, as a fifth kyu, most people are still all left feet and may still have some trouble taking ukemi at full speed. But you immediately assume that I can't do it.

I guess I should let my ego go, because I think my ukemi is very, very good. The night before the most recent incident of this happened, I was practicing with a bunch of shodan doing breakfalls from various techniques for an hour and a half. But this guy couldn't have known that. *sigh* so much depends on the color you wear around your waist.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 12:54 AM   #24
John Bernhard
Dojo: Aikido of East Alabama
Location: Auburn, AL
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 30
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

Ditto on almost all the above. I get tired of the assumptions of how things are based upon your rank or your belt not your level. There is great difference in rank and level. There are I'm sure 3rd kyu's that are probably at Shodan level just like there are Shodans that are probably at 3rd Kyu level.

I also get tired of poor attacks or I should say improper attacks or stopping attacks half way through. Whats worse is you see this in both Kyu and Dan rankings about equally. Seminars show this rather evidently.

I also get really frustrated when your Sensei makes you feel like a dumb a** for not doing this little part or that little part of the technique, or how can you not see what the Shihan is doing. Even worse is when they embarrass you in front of a group of people when you were only trying to learn but weren't getting it just right.

I'm sure there are tons more but thats all for the moment.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 01:39 AM   #25
roadster
 
roadster's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Barbara
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
United_States
Offline
Re: Voices of Inexperience

This thread makes me wonder where some of you are taking class. Thankfully (at least for now) I have an abundance of Aikido Dojo's to choose from. If there was an issue that couldn't be resolved between myself and Sempai, or Sensei, then I would consider going to another dojo.

So far, the communication has been excellent at my dojo. Any minor issues between student's personalities, forms, attitudes, techniques, ect have been nipped in the bud as soon as they are recognized by my very helpful, very skillful, very patient Sensei.

We are all there to learn. If there is a question, ask. If there is an issue, resolve it. From my standpoint, it looks as if many of you don't feel comfortable either asking questions, confronting frustration or confusion, or submitting to the expertise of the Sensei.

Maybe I am lucky enough to train with a group of people that lift each other up rather than segregate by rank or years in Aikido. I used to have a pretty strong personality outside of the dojo that got left at the door when I walked inside. With the help of the right people, it now gets left at the door everytime I leave home.

Many of the frustrations I see listed in this thread look to be a lack of communication, and maybe a little bit of a personality conflict.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Voices of Experience Meta-Discussion akiy Voices of Experience 9 09-06-2009 04:25 PM
Aikido survivors (Voices of Experience) Hanna B General 67 09-10-2005 07:37 PM
voices of experience rachmass Announcements & Feedback 2 11-13-2002 02:29 PM
Voices of Inexperience rachmass Humor 4 08-18-2002 06:03 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:14 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate