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Old 11-13-2007, 11:14 PM   #1
Xing
 
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Can someone explain something to me?

Hi all,

I just wanted to know, is there really any difference between, Shodokan aikido, Iwama style, and Aikikan style?

Thanks ^_^.
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:58 PM   #2
Amir Krause
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

There are style differences, some of them are large, others are minor.

Be aware that there are also differences inside each style, which in some cases might be as large as the differences between styles.

If you wish more specifics, use the search function and you will find multiple relevant threads about this subject.

Amir
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Old 11-14-2007, 01:53 AM   #3
Beard of Chuck Norris
 
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

To quote Maruyama Sensei

Quote:
'Every river has a name. However, these names disappear when they flow into the great ocean. Aikido has many styles, many names, but Aikido is Aikido. It is my vision and hope that, like the rivers, they flow together and unite as one.'
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:17 AM   #4
Mato-san
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

I am sure this thread will be a kicker...
anyhow
Don`t matter the style you learn... as long as you learn the foundations/principles of Aikido then you will make your own Aikido... Aikido is Aikido and thats that.... Aikido is an endless path of whatever you make it.

Jo`s quote from Maruyama Sensei is a perfect explaination

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:29 AM   #5
Mattias Bengtsson
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

In a nutshell, and simplified.

Shodokan is also referred to as "sports" Aikido which means it has competitions.

Iwama is also known as "traditional" Aikido and was "founded" by Morihiro Saito who was one of Ueshibas student who thought too many Aikido styles strayed away from how it was taught at Uehsibas Iwama dojo. It has slightly more weapons training and can be percieved as being more "rough" than other styles, earning it its nickname as "lumberjack" Aikido.

Aikikai started out as referring to the Aikido taught at the Hombu dojo in tokyo. Because of this it has many more variations all considered being Aikikai and more accepting to diversity. Which is why today "Aikikai" more or less refer to as umbrella corporation which includes many styles.

Thats about it in rough edges if i understand it correctly.

Uke Iacta Est
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:51 AM   #6
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

All good stuff above,

Shodokan Aikido is the name of an organization which does have a distinctive "style"... part of which is the use of a more judo like randori and shiai.

Iwama Aikido is more of a "style" linked to a specific place and specific teachers, Saito Sensei senior being the most known (recently deceased, unfortunately). People who practise this "style" may or may not belong to the Aikikai.

Aikikai is an organization, with many shihan, and sub organizations, and dojo. Each of which may have their own particular "style" (like Iwama, above).

Yoshinkan is yet another organization, which also has a distinctive "style", and within even that organization (known to be very uniform in many ways) there are distinct flavors depending on the instructor.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:13 AM   #7
mjhacker
 
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote: View Post
Don`t matter the style you learn... as long as you learn the foundations/principles of Aikido then you will make your own Aikido... Aikido is Aikido and thats that.... Aikido is an endless path of whatever you make it.
Maybe I'm just curmudgeonly, but I don't even like the word "style." It implies to me that whatever differences exist are just minor surface flourishes. My experience differs.

I've trained in several different schools of thought, and while many of them talk the same talk, the walk they walk is, indeed, often quite different.

Maybe this is why I can't, in good conscience, call what I do "Aikido."

Caveat emptor

Michael Hacker
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:21 AM   #8
Mato-san
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Michael Hacker wrote: View Post
Maybe I'm just curmudgeonly, but I don't even like the word "style." It implies to me that whatever differences exist are just minor surface flourishes. My experience differs.

I've trained in several different schools of thought, and while many of them talk the same talk, the walk they walk is, indeed, often quite different.

Maybe this is why I can't, in good conscience, call what I do "Aikido."

Caveat emptor
Call it what you like... it is just a label, but deep down you know where it`s stem is located

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:26 AM   #9
Mato-san
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

We must remember that all these uchideshi and students of the founder learnt the foundations and principles of his art and there after made their own Aikido.... hence why we have so many "styles" ... and substyles (now thats a cool word)

Yes my Aikido is different from yours... so too is the other 500,000 Aikidoka on the planet (don`t quote that number).

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:56 AM   #10
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote: View Post
Call it what you like... it is just a label, but deep down you know where it`s stem is located
Yes, I do... and this is precisely the reason that I don't call it "Aikido."

Some things is just different.

Michael Hacker
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:11 AM   #11
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Michael raises good points, which are probably reflected in some other threads on this topic here.

A "style" may be based around a pedagogical method (like the Yoshinkan focus), specific items that receive extraordinarily close attention (weapons, specific exercises, etc), specific rei (etiquette), or any number of things. Often, certain decisions are made in the training process that build one on the other. If all you do is visit occasionally, it might be hard for a newbie (or even an experienced person) to determine what specific differences mean in relation to the instructor's goal when the system was set up.

Which is not said to discourage cross "style" training...just something to be aware of.
Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:45 PM   #12
grondahl
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Even if it was simplified I would like to point out that in my mind Iwama-style aikido is definitely not more "rough" than other styles. I think more of it as very precise, smooth and distinct if done well.

And for those not in touch with swedish Iwama-style aikido: "lumberjackaikido" is a very local definition of certain swedish dojo and teachers.

Quote:
Mattias Bengtsson wrote: View Post
It has slightly more weapons training and can be percieved as being more "rough" than other styles, earning it its nickname as "lumberjack" Aikido.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:12 PM   #13
Mattias Bengtsson
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
Even if it was simplified I would like to point out that in my mind Iwama-style aikido is definitely not more "rough" than other styles. I think more of it as very precise, smooth and distinct if done well.

And for those not in touch with swedish Iwama-style aikido: "lumberjackaikido" is a very local definition of certain swedish dojo and teachers.
well, theres THAT but I also was referring to this:
Quote:
, a live-in student (uchideshi) of Ueshiba at the Aikikai Hombu Dojo in Tokyo, recalled in particular the intensity of the training that occurred at the Iwama dojo,
" A large portion of the membership at Iwama Dojo consisted of local farmers, hard workers who spent all day in the fields. They had thick bones and great physical strength, combined with a peculiar local character known as "Mito kishitsu," a type of manliness close to gallantry. Altogether, it was quite an opposite culture from Hombu Dojo in Tokyo. Because it is in the capital of Japan, Hombu's membership consists of white-collar workers, intellectuals, businessmen, politicians and university students.

Any members who came to visit Iwama Dojo from Hombu must have looked pale and weak from city living to Iwama members. Indeed, the Iwama students treated us from Hombu as such and challenged us vigorously. It was a matter of survival for members from Hombu Dojo, including Hombu uchideshi like myself. And Saito Sensei was on top of that mountain, which we had to climb with all our might.

Uke Iacta Est
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:29 PM   #14
Xing
 
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Woah, thanks for all the replies ^_^.

When you say competitions, does that mean you never really compete with others in the other 'styles'? Or something else?
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:55 PM   #15
eyrie
 
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

http://aikiweb.com/wiki/Styles

Ignatius
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Old 11-14-2007, 04:09 PM   #16
crbateman
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote: View Post
We must remember that all these uchideshi and students of the founder learnt the foundations and principles of his art and there after made their own Aikido.... hence why we have so many "styles" ... and substyles (now thats a cool word)
Another thing that varies is the particular stretch of time in which each student of O'Sensei trained with him. His teachings, as did his Aikido, changed over the years.
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:07 PM   #17
barron
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

I've visited a few different dojos over the past 8 years and seen a spectrum of differences....even within one "style".

This is how I see the differences between "styles".

Technique is the basic biomechanics of a movement or motion that allows the body to move through a path, that it is limited/held to, due to it's need to not stray form the laws of physiology, biomechanics and physics.

Style is an individual/group interpretation of the of the route to achieving that same goal but still adhering to the laws aforementioned. This is based upon different body size, individual biomechanics, sometimes philosophies and individual teachers' influence.

"There are many roads to Rome."

Practice where you feel happy.

Cheers

Andrew Barron
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:03 PM   #18
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Andrew Barron wrote: View Post
"There are many roads to Rome."
Not everybody is going to Rome...

Quote:
Practice where you feel happy.
This may be the single best piece of overall advice I've heard yet.

Michael Hacker
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:48 PM   #19
Xing
 
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Sorry if this sounds rude, but isn't the phrase meant to be
"All roads lead to Rome"?
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:32 AM   #20
Mato-san
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Another thing that varies is the particular stretch of time in which each student of O'Sensei trained with him. His teachings, as did his Aikido, changed over the years.
For sure!

Many factors come into play. I guess it`s evolution.

Everyone is cooking the same soup, but yeah for sure they don`t all taste the same..

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:00 AM   #21
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Mathew McDowell wrote: View Post
Everyone is cooking the same soup, but yeah for sure they don`t all taste the same..
I'll say it again: everyone isn't necessarily cooking the same soup. Claiming it is so doesn't make it so.

Michael Hacker
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:06 PM   #22
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Michael Hacker wrote: View Post
I'll say it again: everyone isn't necessarily cooking the same soup. Claiming it is so doesn't make it so.
One man's soup may be another man's stew.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:09 PM   #23
mjhacker
 
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
One man's soup may be another man's stew.
Great... like I wasn't hungry already.

Michael Hacker
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:56 PM   #24
Charles Hill
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

Quote:
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
Another thing that varies is the particular stretch of time in which each student of O'Sensei trained with him. His teachings, as did his Aikido, changed over the years.
Hi Clark,

It seems to me that due to the efforts of Western aikido "historians" that it is clear that this is not true. The differences seem to come from the students themselves and don't have much to do with the founder himself. O'Sensei's teachings and technique did not change much over the years, at least from what I can discern.

Charles
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:12 PM   #25
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Re: Can someone explain something to me?

If you come across some aikido practitioner not wearing hakama and wielding rubber tanto poking each other in funny ways.... YEP, them be the ShodoThugs (TM).

Boon.

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