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Old 12-06-2001, 01:13 PM   #1
Mike Haber
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Question For Richard Harnack!!!

Richard,

Could you please tell me what you meant by this from one of your posts:

"The one from 1935 shows Ueshiba when he was in his 50's doing a style of "Aikido" which definitely antedates what he ultimately developed."

What was different about what he did back then compared to what he developed?

Thanks

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
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Old 12-06-2001, 04:56 PM   #2
Richard Harnack
Dojo: Aikido Institute of Mid-America
Location: Maplewood, Missouri
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 137
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Re: Question For Richard Harnack!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Haber
Richard,

Could you please tell me what you meant by this from one of your posts:

"The one from 1935 shows Ueshiba when he was in his 50's doing a style of "Aikido" which definitely antedates what he ultimately developed."

What was different about what he did back then compared to what he developed?

Thanks
Mike -
The film I mentioned is a newsreel done in 1935 when Morihei Ueshiba would have been around 50. This is from his Aikibudo days. What you will see is a vigorous 50 year old flinging people right an left. As you compare this footage with the footage of him from the 1950's and 1960's you will see that many of the same techniques being done differently.

The set of videos is available for purchase through the Aikido Journal website. I am certain you can locate that information here.

The thing is O' Sensei did not stay static in how he did things. He changed over the years and the film record we have of him reflects this.

Yours In Aiki,
Richard Harnack
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Old 12-06-2001, 05:46 PM   #3
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
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While away from Japan for the first year I trained in Aikikai dojos. When I went back to Osaka I did a tenkan to which Shihan angrily retorted "Old man Aikido". Things change - some of it is refinement, some of it is age.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 12-07-2001, 04:34 AM   #4
ranZ
 
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so we're not supposed to do tenkan??
*genuinely curious*
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Old 12-07-2001, 05:30 AM   #5
andrew
Dojo: NUI, Galway Aikido Club.
Location: Galway, Ireland.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeterR
While away from Japan for the first year I trained in Aikikai dojos. When I went back to Osaka I did a tenkan to which Shihan angrily retorted "Old man Aikido". Things change - some of it is refinement, some of it is age.
I think that's my favorite training story I've heard. Thanks!

andrew
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Old 12-07-2001, 08:14 AM   #6
PeterR
 
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It was not the tenkan it was how it was done. Try to imagine a less-passive cut with tegatana as the tenkan is executed. This is the Shodokan way - different from what I've seen in Aikikai.
Quote:
Originally posted by ranZ
so we're not supposed to do tenkan??
*genuinely curious*

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 12-07-2001, 12:49 PM   #7
Mike Haber
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 34
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Richard,

So the aiki budo stuff was more sharp and linear with the throws and they were more direct rather than the softer more circular throws of the post-war era?

Peter,

Would you say that what your Shihan was telling you that the tenkan was not sharp enough and powerful enough for what he believed it should have been? The aikikai way was too soft and circular?

Thanks

Sincerely,

Mike Haber
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Old 12-07-2001, 01:53 PM   #8
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Haber
Would you say that what your Shihan was telling you that the tenkan was not sharp enough and powerful enough for what he believed it should have been? The aikikai way was too soft and circular?
Yes

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 12-07-2001, 09:09 PM   #9
Richard Harnack
Dojo: Aikido Institute of Mid-America
Location: Maplewood, Missouri
Join Date: Oct 2000
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1935 film and later

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Haber

So the aiki budo stuff was more sharp and linear with the throws and they were more direct rather than the softer more circular throws of the post-war era?
Mike -
The best thing is to watch for yourself. The last time I looked at these, the main difference was in the amount of raw power used. In 1935, the Founder used quite a bit in comparison to what he used later.

Yours In Aiki,
Richard Harnack
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Old 12-07-2001, 09:17 PM   #10
Edward
Location: Bangkok
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Thailand
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Our Shihan likes to say regarding this subject something like: When Osensei was young, he used to practice with a very heavy iron bokken, when he got older, the sword became wood and lighter in weight, at his very old age, he replaced it with a fan.
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Old 12-07-2001, 09:20 PM   #11
Edward
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Moreover, at our dojo, young senseis teach powerful, more linear techniques, and the training is very physical, while older senseis use a lot of tenkan, and insist on Ki, good technique and safety.
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