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Old 08-30-2007, 05:56 PM   #26
ChrisHein
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

That chick really has a scary scream.

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Old 08-31-2007, 12:26 PM   #27
philippe willaume
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

We practices weapons from the beginning in the institute.

For me it has 4 functions
The first one is organic to the techniques: I.e. does this technique as if you had a weapon
So in that respect there is movement you do in the saburis that you find as such in technique.

Second.
Speed with weapon is coming from relaxation. So weapons do help you to flow.
As well it makes to top bit of your body becoming independent from the bottom
The cuts promotes irimi and hips engagement and movements

Third
There is tactical consideration when we use weapons that are directly and indirectly transposable to use of open hand. Awasai, <weapon>dori and kumi<weapon>
How to control the opponent and creates opening

4th
When you train you can say stuff like
- set to boken to "bonk" and shoot to kill.
- ktchuuuuuuuu your power grow weak, old man ktchuuuuuuuu
to which it is polite to reply
- yes but when you strike me down, I will grow more powerful that you can ever imagine.
- There can be only one
- My name is indigo Motoya, you killed my father prepare to die. (best with a Spanish accent)
- And of course Crom (odin or wodan woks as well)
- Blood and souls for my lord Arioch (not as popular yet fashionable)

phil

One Ringeck to bring them all and in darkness bind them,
In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 08-31-2007, 01:29 PM   #28
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
- Blood and souls for my lord Arioch (not as popular yet fashionable)

phil
An albino Melnibonean with a black soul-stealing bokken.. scary..

Last edited by CitoMaramba : 08-31-2007 at 01:32 PM.

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 08-31-2007, 01:56 PM   #29
Aikibu
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
We practices weapons from the beginning in the institute.

For me it has 4 functions
The first one is organic to the techniques: I.e. does this technique as if you had a weapon
So in that respect there is movement you do in the saburis that you find as such in technique.

Second.
Speed with weapon is coming from relaxation. So weapons do help you to flow.
As well it makes to top bit of your body becoming independent from the bottom
The cuts promotes irimi and hips engagement and movements

Third
There is tactical consideration when we use weapons that are directly and indirectly transposable to use of open hand. Awasai, <weapon>dori and kumi<weapon>
How to control the opponent and creates opening

4th
When you train you can say stuff like
- set to boken to "bonk" and shoot to kill.
- ktchuuuuuuuu your power grow weak, old man ktchuuuuuuuu
to which it is polite to reply
- yes but when you strike me down, I will grow more powerful that you can ever imagine.
- There can be only one
- My name is indigo Motoya, you killed my father prepare to die. (best with a Spanish accent)
- And of course Crom (odin or wodan woks as well)
- Blood and souls for my lord Arioch (not as popular yet fashionable)

phil
Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid...

At this point pull out squirt gun from inside hakama shoot Nage in Face run like heck laughing your a** off.

William Hazen
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:22 AM   #30
Dewey
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote: View Post
Well, after a lifetime of arduous training and personal sacrifice you'll be able to do stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBe0B...e=user&search= and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJyqZ...e=user&search=

And let's not forget that you're probably also learning to use the staff as well so we should take a look at the skill that years, nay, decades of dedication and living your life on the martial path can bring you ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc336...e=user&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqx-b...e=user&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsl01...e=user&search=

And here's a link for all the folks in the above clips: http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec19/ch222/ch222e.html

Bronson
Wow. Loved the, um...kiaijutsu goin' on there. Yeah, I hate in when Karateka get a hold of swords & staffs. It seems to turn into XMA crap. My Shotokan instructor was fond of doing demonstrations with the bo. The twirling, twirling, twirling made me nauseous. When I demonstrated Saito's 31 count aiki-jo kata, the tsukis impressed him as being more martially effective. Go figure.

Last edited by Dewey : 09-01-2007 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:46 AM   #31
wildaikido
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid...

At this point pull out squirt gun from inside hakama shoot Nage in Face run like heck laughing your a** off.

William Hazen
Ah, but who shot first?

Graham Wild
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:31 AM   #32
Tijani1150
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

sometimes it helps in understanding a technique better
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:49 AM   #33
PeterR
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
Doug Walker wrote: View Post
"If we swing the stick for 1000 years we will become like Musashi. When we become like Musashi we will rule the world!"
Did Musahi rule the world - I think he got to rule a cave.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-03-2007, 01:06 AM   #34
PeterR
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Hmmm those videos - well their goals are different.

One thing I have noticed is that weapons work is where many aikidoists begin to learn how to attack. More to the point, there seems to be a clear distinction between those that do weapons and those that dont with regards to the speed, power and balance of empty hand attacks.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:09 AM   #35
Bronson
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
One thing I have noticed is that weapons work is where many aikidoists begin to learn how to attack. More to the point, there seems to be a clear distinction between those that do weapons and those that dont with regards to the speed, power and balance of empty hand attacks.
I'll second that.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 09-03-2007, 11:09 AM   #36
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid...

At this point pull out squirt gun from inside hakama shoot Nage in Face run like heck laughing your a** off.

William Hazen
captain Hazen, i find your lack of faith disturbing.

beside technically should not you throw a few credits to the cleaning leady before laughing your arse of....



phil the force (obviously)

Last edited by philippe willaume : 09-03-2007 at 11:15 AM.

One Ringeck to bring them all and in darkness bind them,
In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 09-03-2007, 02:23 PM   #37
Karen Wolek
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
Karen Wolek wrote: View Post

Heh.

Now, if only I remember that lesson the next time I do shihonage.
Update:

I did not.

"DON'T DO THAT!!!!" yelled at me from across the mat, so that everyone stopped to see who he was yelling at.

If I do shihonage slowly, I don't do this torquing of uke's arm thing. That apparently hurts. But if I speed it up, I do. And it is NOT deliberate, since I'm not even exactly sure what it is that I'm doing.

I guess I had better just do shihonage slowly for now...and practice the daily bokken cuts that Sensei strongly recommended .

Karen
"Try not. Do...or do not. There is no try." - Master Yoda
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Old 09-05-2007, 01:56 AM   #38
Erik Calderon
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

I've thought about the sword as an extension of myself. When I left the sword, it is the same as lifting uke.

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Old 09-06-2007, 02:31 AM   #39
Stefan Hultberg
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Hi

I'm a bit of a newbie to this forum and not particularly advanced in my training (3rd kyu), but here goes.

I don't quite understand the question, aikido consists of Tai Jutsu as well as Buki Waza. If you take away one of the parts it's not aikido but perhaps "partial aikido". This integration of weapons practice and practise without weapons seems to have been central in O-sensei's teaching as well as in Saito sensei's teaching.

Therefore - bokken training does improve your aikido because it IS aikido.

Apart from that I find that for example practicing shiho-nage together with shiho-giri really brings home the unity of aikido and provides for a much deeper understanding of both techniques.

And finally - Buki-waza is fun!!!!!

Regards
Stefan
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:56 AM   #40
mriehle
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Did Musahi rule the world - I think he got to rule a cave.
And there are some people who will argue that this demonstrates that he was the only one alive fit to rule the world.

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Old 09-11-2007, 06:48 AM   #41
Gerry Magee
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

This video shows the relation between sword principles and empty hand techniques.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mIO6BX_b53k

If anyone can link you to clips of Saito Sensei that would also be of great value to you.

Sword exercises help co-ordinate your hips and your hands, teaches you to always protect your centre line. I addition it helps build strong wrists and forearms and this in turn aids powerful strikes.
Hope this helps.
Gerry
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:27 PM   #42
JamesC
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

My weapons training has helped me most in my footwork.

I was(am) one of those "dancers" when doing techniques. Especially tenkan.

For some reason, having the bokken in my hands keeps me from performing as many of those extra and unneeded steps.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:32 AM   #43
Zolley
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

I now understand how useful weapons are to improve my technique.

But can anyone suggest me some books, dvds or online videos from which I can learn about the direct relationship between empty handed training and weapons trainings? It is said aikido techniques come from weapons techniques (which seems to have some point)

For example, you do an ikkyo but there is a jo in your hands or something similar. I can see how the two types of training are related but I would also like to see them together. We had some similar techniques at trainings (and in some sense, I'd say tanto waza is very similar to what I'm looking for) but it would be nice to see from masters when an empty handed cut to throw uke is really the same as if a bokken was in my hands.

Thanks,
Zolley
http://onlineaikido.com
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:47 AM   #44
Stefan Hultberg
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Hi

I suppose this will be a sickeningly familiar example to all, but I have noticed a wonderful complimentarity when first performing zen go giri/ shiho giri with the bokken - while thinking about shiho nage. Afterwards, while training shiho nage - what a difference!!!

There are, of course, many more examples of complimentarity between buki waza and tai jutsu, e.g. 1'st awaze leading into many varieties of "weapon-taking".

Personally - I love weapons training for its meditation-like qualities and its link to the full spread of budo from ancient Japan.

On a more "chicken-like" note it provides an old man with a welcome break from the pain of osae waza.

All the best

Stefan
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:57 PM   #45
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Not necessarily

Quote:
Stefan Hultberg wrote: View Post
I don't quite understand the question, aikido consists of Tai Jutsu as well as Buki Waza. If you take away one of the parts it's not aikido but perhaps "partial aikido".
Not necessarily. Lots of dojos have no or minimal training with bokken and jo, but what they do must still be regarded as aikido. Aikikai Hombu Dojo in Tokyo is one of them...

Stefan Stenudd
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:03 PM   #46
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Bokken in hand

Quote:
Zoltan Szlavik wrote: View Post
But can anyone suggest me some books, dvds or online videos from which I can learn about the direct relationship between empty handed training and weapons trainings?
I guess that Nishio sensei's system would be an example of what you look for. He always showed his techniques empty-handed, as well as with bokken in hand, and with jo in hand.
You can see that clearly on the videos made from one of his seminars in my dojo, back in the 1990's, which I have on my YouTube account.
Here is the first one (of five):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZWojpNnao

Stefan Stenudd
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:17 PM   #47
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Precision, center, timing, distance, and on and on...

I forgot to mention how I feel that bokken training improves my aikido.
It's a lot. I learn precision, timing, distance, for example. Also, bokken exercises help to develop one's center, and center breathing.

I do some iaido as well, and that is quite rewarding, too, for one's aikido. It is difficult to get really sharp and refined in one's bokken techniques without some training with a katana or iaito. That can't be done intensely with a partner, of course, so most of such training is done solo. Still, it is very useful.

I went through a lot of these things in my Aikibatto book, but I can't get that lengthy on the forum. Suffice to say that me personally, I believe that sword training has helped me tremendously in my aikido.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:14 PM   #48
xuzen
 
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

FWIW...

I recall training with uke empty handed and with their LOL!1!Wimpy Punch [TM] i just stand there and yawn.

When I was training with uke with bokken even with their LOL!1!Wimpy Swing [TM], I will not yawn but keep my eyes awake.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 08-09-2008, 12:03 AM   #49
Charles Hill
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Re: How does training with the Bokken Help to improve my Aikido?

Zoltan,

Haruo Matsuoka's DVD's show the relationship btwn hand and sword in an extremely clear, precise, powerful and beautiful way.

Charles
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Old 08-09-2008, 02:03 AM   #50
Stefan Hultberg
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Re: Not necessarily

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
Not necessarily. Lots of dojos have no or minimal training with bokken and jo, but what they do must still be regarded as aikido. Aikikai Hombu Dojo in Tokyo is one of them...
Point taken, and perhaps badly put by me. I do realize that many dojo's do little or no weapons practise. I have never been to the Hombu dojo (but am hoping to train there in april!!!) and it surprises me that they apparently do not do mch weapons training there. Is there a particular reason for this??

I suppose I was focussing on the founder's emphasis on the connection between tai jutsu and buki waza and I considered this to be "aikido". However, the founder, as I understand it, considered aikido to be eternally evolving and therefore did not expect future generations to practice aikido exactly like it was practised by the founder.

Therefore I also realize that dojo's that do little or no weapons practice still practice aikido and not "partial aikido". Does anybody know how one could judge if a dojo is really practising aikido or not - I mean, is there an outer limit??

Still, the commonality between tai jutsu and weapons practice is very real and therefore I am in no doubt - weapons practice really improves one's aikido!!

Thank you for your point, Stefan!!

Best regards

Stefan
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