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Old 08-17-2007, 10:21 AM   #1
dps
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Loving Protection

By using Aikido to protect yourself, aren't you stopping your attacker from hurting themselves?

If someone attacks you and you don't defend yourself, aren't you allowing that person to hurt themselves mentally and spiritually?


David
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:38 AM   #2
Charles
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Re: Loving Protection

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
By using Aikido to protect yourself, aren't you stopping your attacker from hurting themselves?

If someone attacks you and you don't defend yourself, aren't you allowing that person to hurt themselves mentally and spiritually?

David
Quite true. And in much the same way the Spanish Inquisition (The Roman one, not the Monty Python) went about stopping people from hurting their own immortal souls.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:45 AM   #3
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Loving Protection

How is the attacker hurting themselves mentally and physically if you don't defend?
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:16 AM   #4
cguzik
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Re: Loving Protection

One could consider the operation of the universe to be the medium of karma. If karma is cultivation of cause and experience of effect, then everything we experience is teaching. One who practices violence will experience the effects of such choices. The question may be: just how active a part do you want to play should you find yourself in the midst of this? Be careful because you will find your own consequences.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:42 AM   #5
David Orange
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Re: Loving Protection

Quote:
Charles Scheid wrote: View Post
Quite true. And in much the same way the Spanish Inquisition (The Roman one, not the Monty Python) went about stopping people from hurting their own immortal souls.
Well, except that the Inquisitors went hunting people down to "help" where aikido only helps them when they come "asking for it!"

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:17 AM   #6
Suru
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Re: Loving Protection

At a pool hall, a guy came up to me and asked "What time is it?" He simultaneously put his hands on my watch and read the time. He was probably drunk and didn't realize it, but I felt attacked. I let him read the time then go about his way. It was a light-grab katatedori, and looking back, I wonder if I should have thrown him. If for nothing else, to "teach him a lesson." This was a matter of all my Aikido physical training versus all my spiritual training. Looking back now, I feel I followed O'Sensei's doka: "One who--in any situation--perceives the truth with resignation--would never need to draw his sword in haste. If he would've tried to pull my watch off, my sword would have been out of its sheath. I love myself as much as an attacker, and if it came down to breaking his joints, it would hurt me deeply but I'd do what's necessary.

Drew
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:10 AM   #7
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Loving Protection

Quote:
Charles Scheid wrote: View Post
Quite true. And in much the same way the Spanish Inquisition (The Roman one, not the Monty Python) went about stopping people from hurting their own immortal souls.
Do not lay scorn on the comfy chair! On pain of the soft cushions.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 08-22-2007, 11:22 AM   #8
trailbuster530
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Re: Loving Protection

I guess in some respects you are protecting them but in the true sense of the word "Defense" you are possibly going to injury your attacker without even trying.

In my experience if the Uke is experienced in your particular defense tactics he will come out with little or no injury.

If the Uke is inexperienced in falls or unwilling to tap out or submit then he could end up injured more than you anticipated.

Think of the falls we take in the beginning of our training. They are no where near smooth nor are the something that "Just happens". There is a lot of thought that goes into how you are going to roll thru this or stop and not get injured.

I don't have any Aikido experience in defense this is coming from past experiences in the other things I have done.

I personally would always defend myself, family, and friends if I had the capability. I would rather see the Uke get injured rather than the people I love.

Just my 2 cents.

Erik,

Overcome fear, and stagnation goes out the window.
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Old 08-22-2007, 12:00 PM   #9
dps
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Re: Loving Protection

Do we have a moral or ethical obligation to help the attacker stop his aggressive behavior by defending ourselves?

If a person is truly attacking me, not just wondering what time it is, and I don't defend mysefl, the attacker is rewarded for his efforts. He receives positive reinforcement for aggressive behavior.

If I defend myself, the reward is not as great and the reinforcement is not as positive. If every time the attacker tries to hurt someone and they are met with resistance and possible injury it might help put the aggressive behavior in check?
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Old 08-22-2007, 12:26 PM   #10
dps
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Re: Loving Protection

"Suppose a bodhisattva sees that a vicious robber intends to kill many people for the sake of wealth; or intends to harm virtuous shravakas, pratyekabuddhas, or bodhisattvas; or intends to do other things that will cause him to fall into the Uninterrupted hell. When seeing this, the bodhisattva will think, "If I kill that person, I will fall into the hells; if I do not kill him, he will commit crimes which will lead him to the Uninterrupted hell, where he will suffer greatly. I would rather kill him and fall to the hells myself than let him undergo great suffering in the Uninterrupted hell."

Then, deeply regretting the necessity for this action, and with a heart full of compassion, he will kill that person. In doing this, he does not violate the bodhisattva precepts; instead, he generates many merits."

Buddhism. Yogacarya Bhumi Shastra

David
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:27 PM   #11
dps
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Re: Loving Protection

Where are you on a scale of one to ten where one is die to prevent yourself from doing violence and ten is where you kill your attacker to prevent them from suffering karmic action or eternal damnation.

David
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:22 PM   #12
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Loving Protection

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
At a pool hall, a guy came up to me and asked "What time is it?" He simultaneously put his hands on my watch and read the time. He was probably drunk and didn't realize it, but I felt attacked. I let him read the time then go about his way. It was a light-grab katatedori, and looking back, I wonder if I should have thrown him. If for nothing else, to "teach him a lesson." This was a matter of all my Aikido physical training versus all my spiritual training. Looking back now, I feel I followed O'Sensei's doka: "One who--in any situation--perceives the truth with resignation--would never need to draw his sword in haste. If he would've tried to pull my watch off, my sword would have been out of its sheath. I love myself as much as an attacker, and if it came down to breaking his joints, it would hurt me deeply but I'd do what's necessary.

Drew
but in all honesty, do you love your watch that much ? your initial action was appropriate in the circumstance. a trained person knows when it is a need to care for the self or a need to protect the ego( or it's purchases, potentially).

injured people don't generally transform through further injury and you didn't need to protect yourself.
good job,says me.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:18 PM   #13
Suru
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Re: Loving Protection

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
but in all honesty, do you love your watch that much ? your initial action was appropriate in the circumstance. a trained person knows when it is a need to care for the self or a need to protect the ego( or it's purchases, potentially).

injured people don't generally transform through further injury and you didn't need to protect yourself.
good job,says me.
Thank you, Jennifer. Your reassurance makes me feel better.

Drew
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:59 PM   #14
statisticool
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Re: Loving Protection

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
At a pool hall, a guy came up to me and asked "What time is it?" He simultaneously put his hands on my watch and read the time. He was probably drunk and didn't realize it, but I felt attacked. I let him read the time then go about his way. It was a light-grab katatedori, and looking back, I wonder if I should have thrown him. If for nothing else, to "teach him a lesson." This was a matter of all my Aikido physical training versus all my spiritual training. Looking back now, I feel I followed O'Sensei's doka: "One who--in any situation--perceives the truth with resignation--would never need to draw his sword in haste. If he would've tried to pull my watch off, my sword would have been out of its sheath. I love myself as much as an attacker, and if it came down to breaking his joints, it would hurt me deeply but I'd do what's necessary.

Drew
Very nice, thanks

Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 08-25-2007, 12:39 PM   #15
satriani
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Re: Loving Protection

if one is not going to defend, should'nt we jst study some cult religion or go to yoga class or go to church if we're gonna believe in the karma ideology? at least for me the reason i study is to defend myself and my love ones. i truly believe that the bottomline in training is being ready for attacks. in my opinion i find it so cowardly if one life is at danger and doesn't defend....jst my opinion
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