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Old 07-24-2007, 01:50 PM   #1
Bronson
 
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combat umbrella

A real, modern-day carry weapon

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:15 PM   #2
klimber
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Re: combat umbrella

haha...so who's gonna make the first umbrella kata ??
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Old 07-24-2007, 06:40 PM   #3
Chris Li
 
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
Johnathon Haase wrote: View Post
haha...so who's gonna make the first umbrella kata ??
Umbrella techniques are not uncommon in Japanese arts - even Daito-ryu has a few.

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-24-2007, 09:03 PM   #4
raul rodrigo
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Re: combat umbrella

Shiro Omiya's book The hidden roots of aikido has an umbrella waza--what to do if someone tries to take away your umbrella.

R
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:08 PM   #5
Chris Li
 
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
Shiro Omiya's book The hidden roots of aikido has an umbrella waza--what to do if someone tries to take away your umbrella.

R
I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in Omiya...

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-24-2007, 09:52 PM   #6
raul rodrigo
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Re: combat umbrella

Same here, Chris. I just thought I'd mention it as an example of what you were talking about.

best,

R
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:37 AM   #7
Al Gutierrez
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Re: combat umbrella

Here's just one example from Daito-ryu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvPEU9mAX5Y

I'd call it self-defense with an umbrella rather than "combat".

A.G.
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:51 AM   #8
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Re: combat umbrella

I believe that the umbrella techniques that Mas Oyama included in some of his books (eg. Vital Karate) came from his training under Kotaro Yoshida, and were purportedly from Daito-Ryu. The versions of Nikkajo and Sankajo shown in the books were probably also derived from his training with Yoshida.

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 07-25-2007, 02:08 AM   #9
Al Gutierrez
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Re: combat umbrella

Yeah I'd agree with that. I've seen the "self defense" techniques from Kyokushinkai and they include variations of many Daito-ryu Jujutsu techniques. IOW they're joint locking techniques, kind of like Aikido techniques but they totally lack the precise sophistication of Daito Ryu or Yanagi Ryu.

I also heard that a senior Kyokushinkai instructor also trained in the Roppokai with Okamoto sensei.

A.G.
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:49 PM   #10
dps
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote: View Post
A real, modern-day carry weapon

Bronson
But, will it keep you dry in the rain?
What is the point of having a weapon that looks like an umbrella if is does not function like an umbrella also?
David

Last edited by dps : 07-25-2007 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 07-25-2007, 02:10 PM   #11
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Re: combat umbrella

at the end of the video he opens the umbrella.. it's not one of those self opening ones though..

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:28 PM   #12
dps
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
at the end of the video he opens the umbrella.. it's not one of those self opening ones though..
But it wasn't raining.

David
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:13 PM   #13
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
But it wasn't raining.

David
Perhaps they should have thrown a bucket of water on him to prove that it was waterproof..

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:00 AM   #14
dps
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
Perhaps they should have thrown a bucket of water on him to prove that it was waterproof..
Yes.

David
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:50 AM   #15
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Yes.

David
I can think of a couple of posters who I'd like to check for 'weatherproofing'.

-present company excluded.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:46 PM   #16
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Re: combat umbrella

Are there different techniques for those little "tote's" umbrellas or perhaps the kind you find in mixed drinks? Are these techniques effective on sunny days? Get Real!
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:56 PM   #17
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: combat umbrella

You can order the umbrella in the video here. It's bloody expensive!

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:05 PM   #18
Erick Mead
 
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
Al Gutierrez wrote: View Post
Here's just one example from Daito-ryu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvPEU9mAX5Y

I'd call it self-defense with an umbrella rather than "combat".

A.G.
I dunno. Pranin documented in an interview with Ikkusai Iwata that Takeda would demonstrate its use against a sword (kasatori) in Ueshiba Juku in Mejiro in the 30's:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=406

The original video seems actually more like walking stick techniques in savate, which given the source, makes some sense.

There was this for straight handled umbrellas : http://www.real-self-defense.com/vid...o_straight.wmv

Last edited by Erick Mead : 08-02-2007 at 05:17 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:43 PM   #19
aikidoc
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Re: combat umbrella

The systema guys use it to beat the crap out of the attacker in the improvised weapons tape. He even sticks one of the tines up the guys nose-ouch.
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:28 AM   #20
Al Gutierrez
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
I can think of a couple of posters who I'd like to check for 'weatherproofing'.
You mean "give a shellacking to"?

The last vid looks like hapkido cane techniques to me.

Quote:
I dunno. Pranin documented in an interview with Ikkusai Iwata that Takeda would demonstrate its use against a sword (kasatori) in Ueshiba Juku in Mejiro in the 30's:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=406
It still seems like self defense to me, who ever heard of anyone marching into combat with an umbrella? Anyway, Daito Ryu has a lot of nice umbrella techniques, I've seen a few besides the ones on YouTube, some are like the usual hanbo jutsu, while others are more like aikijujutsu while holding or carrying an umbrella.

IIRC Sokaku Takeda also carried a hidden sword in his favorite walking cane.

A.G.
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:43 PM   #21
Erick Mead
 
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Re: combat umbrella

Quote:
Al Gutierrez wrote: View Post
It still seems like self defense to me, who ever heard of anyone marching into combat with an umbrella?
Apparently, the Brits have:
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meas...mbrella.ap.jpg
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Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:49 PM   #22
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: combat umbrella

In the battle for the Arnhem bridge in World War II, Major Allison Digby Tatham-Warter of the 2nd Battalion, British 1st Airborne Division, led his men in a bayonet charge
Quote:
carrying a pistol in one hand, madly swinging his umbrella about his head with the other
His reason for carrying the umbrella was:
Quote:
because he could never remember the password, and it would be quite obvious to anyone that the bloody fool carrying the umbrella could only be an Englishman.
He did also use the umbrella combatively during the Arnhem battle:
Quote:
On another occasion he used the rolled up umbrella to in-effect disable a German armoured car, simply by thrusting it through an observation slit in the vehicle and incapacitating the driver.
In the hands of a trained warrior, anything becomes a weapon.. even against guns and tanks.

Biography of Major Tatham-Warter

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
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