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Old 12-13-2001, 10:25 PM   #51
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
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Cool

wow all because some 17 year old wise guy asked about student teaching we have joker pics on the post and war. CU slowly walkes backwards and runs until.. I thought this up and wanted to ask y'all it has to do with females. um girls develop these round soft spots just below the neck and sometimes they are kind distracting does anyone else have this problem? and do you believe if girls have to wear shirts guys have to also or vice versa? just some thought from a 17 year old ( no offence girls) well have fun arguing hope the post gets some harmony kicked in. and girls do you ever feel looked on by guys??

Last edited by Chocolateuke : 12-13-2001 at 10:27 PM.

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 12-13-2001, 11:00 PM   #52
shihonage
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolateuke
um girls develop these round soft spots just below the neck and sometimes they are kind distracting does anyone else have this problem?
It's called "Adam's apple".
What kind of girls are you hanging out with, anyway ?
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Old 12-14-2001, 01:13 AM   #53
unsound000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolateuke
I thought this up and wanted to ask y'all it has to do with females. um girls develop these round soft spots just below the neck and sometimes they are kind distracting does anyone else have this problem? and do you believe if girls have to wear shirts guys have to also or vice versa?
I have the problem of finding them distracting...but it's a good problem, one I'm willing to spend time on. Though it be a lonely job, I will perservere. Seriously though, I've worked out with girls that had the hair, the makeup, perfume, the whole bit. That was a little distracting for the 16 yr old guy I was. I think a lot of it is just maturity level to be able to keep everything on the work out level. ahhhh...distractions...
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Old 12-14-2001, 03:24 AM   #54
Creature_of_the_id
 
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Read through the posts and thought I'd join in on the whole talking versus silence debate.
not going to argue for either side.

I can see value in all types of training, to say that one way is less effective than another or to say that there should be no teaching on the mat other than sensei can be a bit of an extremist view.
but also a valid view if that is how you wish to train.

My point is, in watching we learn, in listening we learn, in doing we learn, in teaching we learn.

why limit the tools that we can use to progress?

if someone is telling you how to do something then why not allow them? they are doing themselves more benifit than you usually anyway. I sometimes encourage lower grades to teach me technique just so they can break it down in their heads and verbalise it and have to understand it. there are so many tools for learning.

another point...
we all have a choice in how to react to anything. if we expect to train in silence or in a certain way and our partner does not behave in that way then our expectations are not met and we tend to react emotionally.. get angry, frustrated etc.
if we remove the expectation then we can find harmony with every training partner and every moment. isnt that the aiki way?

in randori if we expect a certain attack then we limit ourselves to certain movement. the attack does not come and we get hit and hurt, if we remove expectation then we can blend and find harmony with all attacks. by applying this to our life, removing expectations of people we remove judgements of how they behave and we allow ourselves acceptance of all, realising our own choice in how we react and that we cannot be to blame for someone elses choice of reaction.

if we continue to say.. this is right, this is wrong... we get no where, we continue to judge and so get hurt. right and wrong are not absolute, they are defined individually through our own limited experiences, if we had different experiences then we would have different values. so why hold onto them when they are so limited? they create resistance and conflict with others limitations.

let go of right and wrong, understand that the resistance is a choice and find harmony with all.
or dont, it is your choice and i will not judgeyou for it, just find harmony with you

(how did I get all that from a teaching on the mat post? i'll end my monologue)

with love
Kev

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Old 12-14-2001, 06:47 AM   #55
guest1234
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I would be able to ignore those who insist on telling you what to do if all they did was talk while training.
Unfortuanately, they seem unable to move their mouth and anyother body part at the same time, and waste my training time, usually telling me something that is their usually incorrect version of what the teacher just showed.
These folks should limit their talking to while they are moving (preferably while they are NAGE)...if their partners value their instruction they could listen then.

Last edited by guest1234 : 12-14-2001 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 12-14-2001, 07:34 AM   #56
Arianah
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Chocolateuke:
Quote:
um girls develop these round soft spots just below the neck . . . and girls do you ever feel looked on by guys??
I've never been looked at etc. But one time I was partnered with this one guy and we were doing nikyo. When I attempted to pull his hand to my shoulder, I misjudged where my shoulder actually was a little bit . . . ehem . . . then he began saying "ha ha, I touched your boob!"

Arianah

Post Script: By the way, Kev, yours was a very thoughtful and interesting post. I believe that teaching is a very valid means of learning, but I must also agree with Colleen that it is sometimes at the sacrifice of someone else's practice time. I think it is valid for someone to feel frustrated at another because s/he is doing nothing but talking when they are supposed to be doing technique. Where I agree that we have to let go of certain expectations, I still expect that when I am paired with someone for practice that we will practice . I think it is less of a matter of "We have to practice in silence or else it isn't right!" than it is of "We have to practice!" I am all for sempai giving quick, precise corrections, and for kohai to validate what they have learned by saying, "now you step back, right?" but when someone starts giving a sermon on the mat, it becomes a problem.

Arianah

Last edited by Arianah : 04-01-2002 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 12-14-2001, 07:46 AM   #57
Creature_of_the_id
 
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Hi Arianah,
of course it is valid, any response or reaction is valid. One of my points is that being frustrated is a choice. So you cannot really blame someone else when you choose to be frustrated over their actions because they do not meet up to your own expectations of how they should behave.

everyone has views on how to train as this thread shows very clearly, all views on how to train are based on personal experience. all experience is limited and in judging someone else actions you are claiming that your own limited experiences are more valid than someone elses.

my point in all this is... you cannot be effected by anyone any more than you choose to be. not very many people enjoy feeling frustrated... so why choose to?

From my persepctibe making a choice such as that is all about control. We become frustrated because others are not behaving in a way that we want them to, and so we become frustrated, we do not see that the only thing that we can control is our own choice within any given moment.

in order to get around these frustrations I simply acknowledge that I have no control over others, other than that which they believe that they give me. I remove my expectations and limited beliefs of how tat person will behave and find harmony with whatever they are doing.
there is no frustration because their is no judgement or conflict, there is only harmony and the experience of relating to that person in whatever form that takes.

that for me is aikido... what I do on the mat is just an art form that reflects these thoughts and actions and puts them in a form that people can absorb.

(can you tell I have nothing to do at work today?)

with love
Kev

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Old 12-14-2001, 10:50 AM   #58
Richard Harnack
Dojo: Aikido Institute of Mid-America
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Thumbs up Re: ??????

Quote:
Originally posted by shihonage


No, its the picture of your post.
Metaphorically speaking
I'm underwhelmed.

Yours In Aiki,
Richard Harnack
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Old 12-14-2001, 02:25 PM   #59
[Censored]
 
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Unfortuanately, they seem unable to move their mouth and anyother body part at the same time, and waste my training time, usually telling me something that is their usually incorrect version of what the teacher just showed.

If it is incorrect, it can be ignored or countered. If it cannot be ignored or countered, it must not be incorrect.
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Old 12-15-2001, 08:54 AM   #60
Johan Tibell
Dojo: Aikido Dojo Gamlestaden
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Quote:
Originally posted by [Censored]
If it is incorrect, it can be ignored or countered. If it cannot be ignored or countered, it must not be incorrect.
Well, it's not always that simple. One technique can be correct at a certain level but at a higher it's not good enough. There arevery few techniques that a good instructor can't counter.

Regards,

Johan Tibell
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Old 12-17-2001, 01:02 PM   #61
Arianah
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Many have said in this thread that they become annoyed when a student attempts to teach them. I've been thinking about this topic quite a bit lately. In a previous post on this thread, I related my experience with a fellow student attempting to teach me, and my annoyance at this. I began to wonder why it was that when he told me things that would help my technique (which were very good points now that I think about it, and have made my throws more effective when I incorporate them) that I became irritated with him, while others may teach me on the mat and I accept their advice with interest and gratitude. I think now that it is intention behind the comments that may make students teaching other students a good or bad experience. In the case of this particular student, he gave me tips not to help me become better at technique, but used them as an opportunity to point out what was wrong with my technique and to prove that he knew more than I. If the intention of on-mat student-to-student teaching is to help and improve, I think that it can be very beneficial (even if their comments are "wrong," if said with good intention, it is much less irritating than if they had said it to prove that they were smart), but there are "helpful" students who are just trying to feed their ego. While I am rather glad that he pointed these things out to me now, I can also see how this kind of attitude could ruin otherwise helpful advice.

Arianah
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Old 12-17-2001, 02:17 PM   #62
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Well, it's not always that simple. One technique can be correct at a certain level but at a higher it's not good enough. There arevery few techniques that a good instructor can't counter.

Right. Point is, if YOU cannot counter or ignore it, YOU are not currently qualified to deem it incorrect. This is far more valuable information than the achievements of your predecessors.

...If the intention of on-mat student-to-student teaching is to help and improve, I think that it can be very beneficial (even if their comments are "wrong," if said with good intention, it is much less irritating than if they had said it to prove that they were smart), but there are "helpful" students who are just trying to feed their ego.

If you want to learn how to deal with uncooperative and selfish people, you must practice with those people. Or with people playing that role sincerely.
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