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Old 08-03-2007, 07:05 PM   #26
Joseph Madden
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

The average 8 year old can be taught how to use an AK47 in about 2 minutes. The average intelligent person can learn how to master a gun on their own with no training in about 10 minutes. Your boot camp analogy doesn't wash. That's why some of the greatest "trained" forces on the planet are getting their A#$es handed to them on a platter. And as far as training goes Roman, thank you for being honest. And proving to me that you are a child.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:31 PM   #27
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Sorry, just no room for ye old raving geezers.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:32 PM   #28
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
The average 8 year old can be taught how to use an AK47 in about 2 minutes. The average intelligent person can learn how to master a gun on their own with no training in about 10 minutes. Your boot camp analogy doesn't wash. That's why some of the greatest "trained" forces on the planet are getting their A#$es handed to them on a platter. And as far as training goes Roman, thank you for being honest. And proving to me that you are a child.
Look Joe With all due respect.... The greatest trained forces on the planet have yet to lose a "fight on the street" and the loss ratio is right around 150 "untrained AK 47 Shooters" for every Soldier.All if this has to do with thier training...In Fact No trained soldier has ever lost a single "stand up fight" engagement be it hand to hand or small arms since this BS began... War... like life is more than a stand up fight with a clear winner and loser and everytime you post you just display your ignorance of this simple point.

"If you want to run with the big dogs You had better learn to pee on the big trees or else you better get back up on the porch with the other puppies."

This means you Joe.

With all due apologies and copious expletives removed... 1st Sgt George C Conrad... Ranger... Warrior... Mentor... and The best Damn Irish Brawler I ever
saw.

William Hazen

Hint: Col Harry Summers USA: "You never beat us on the battlefield." Lt Col Phu NVA "This is true... But it is also irrelevent" From the book "On Strategy" By Col Harry Summers.
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:41 PM   #29
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
The average 8 year old can be taught how to use an AK47 in about 2 minutes. The average intelligent person can learn how to master a gun on their own with no training in about 10 minutes. Your boot camp analogy doesn't wash.
Seriously, such a waste of time. Man, when will we learn.

My rebuttal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQQo0gfBHq0

It's not relevant at all, but your posts make so little sense that I think we're about even for total argumentative impact. And mine's cuter.
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Old 08-03-2007, 08:32 PM   #30
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Leave him alone guys, he's the next Fidel Castro.

"Training? We don't need no training!!"

Last edited by Roman Kremianski : 08-03-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:33 PM   #31
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Joseph Madden wrote: View Post
The average intelligent person can learn how to MASTER a gun on their own with no training in about 10 minutes.
I don't think you know anything about firearms.

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Old 08-04-2007, 02:01 AM   #32
darin
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
I DID NOT SAY watch the bad Aikido Randori Videos on You Tube Just the good ones. I assumed since you come across as an experianced Aikidoka you know the difference.

My Background in the Martial Arts spans 30 years and several arts.. Karate, Judo, Ju-Jitsu and MMA and I myself am looking for a good Systema Class to enhance my understanding of our Aikido which Shoji Nishio stated MUST measure itself against other arts in order to be Budo aka A Real Martial Art.

All of our Aikido is based on Striking (Atemi). Nuff Said.

I respecfully disagree with your suggestion that Aikido doesn't work with mulitple attackers. If practiced properly it is possible to handle a few folks (aka More than two) having been in a few "street fights" it has served me well I don't proclaim myself to be anything other than a survivor and I give the Martial Awareness I learned through the years all the credit along with a large amount of good luck

If your Aikido is done with the rythem and flow of Atemi (Striking) then why do you have to digress to Karate??? I mean no disrepect by asking this question but I can't find where Mochizuki Shihan whom I hold in high regard actually said this.

My original suggestion to the young man still stands. Good Aikido EMPHASIZES Atemi so find a practice whose Sensei understands this.

Also find out what Atemi really means... It is has to do with much more than just socking someone in the face. HA HA HA HA

Now I will leave the rest of you to argue about "Street Fighting and other BS"

Yaaaaawn. Been There Done That.

William Hazen
Some nice comments there William. I checked out Nishio Sensei on youtube and yes he's emphasis is on effective aikido! Very nice techniques.

It was actually my teacher Unno Sensei who said that karate is more pratical against multiple opponents than aikido. His reason behind this was that aikido is essentially a grappling art. Traditional Yoseikan aikido emphasizes judo/jujitsu techniques over traditional aikido ones in randori therefore using sutemi, chokes and ground fighting will obviously limit your range in combat. Unno Sensei generally preferred karate when he fought. He told me he rarely had to use aikido because he'd just knock his opponent's out.

Minoru Mochizuki was basically a MMA pioneer however he was biased to judo as seen in his aikido. I don't really know what his theory on multiple opponents was. I have his book but haven't got around to reading the section on ninindori.

My reason for having a go at youtube is that those videos are basically rigged. Most of them are instructional or designed to show off a style.

Anyway I hoipe this doesn't turn out to be an argument. You have more experience than me and I see what your were trying to say. I agree with your point on atemi.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:56 AM   #33
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Please feel free to check out the "style" of Aikido called Nihon Goshen Aikido, we "spar" almost every class. I statrted out in a Hombu "style" and have transitioned to NGA very smoothly. I will return to Hombu once I have a solid base(my black belt, I hope) to start over. 9 plus years exprience here between the two "styles", and the stuff I do now, NGA, has been most helpful in forcing me to think on my feet. http://aikidoinc.comif you are interested, our headquarters happens to be in NJ.
Have a peek.

"of all the things I've lost, I ,miss my mind the most..."-mushin-
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:06 AM   #34
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Wow. I'd never really watched video of Nishio-sensei before, which was silly given how many good things I'd heard about him. I was very impressed. He had a sort of energetic, smooth movement that strikes me (accidental pun) as really unique. And yes, his use of atemi was noticeable. Nice to see someone actually implementing the "Aikido is (insert large number here)% aikido" idea.
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Old 08-04-2007, 12:18 PM   #35
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Darin Hyde wrote: View Post
Some nice comments there William. I checked out Nishio Sensei on youtube and yes he's emphasis is on effective aikido! Very nice techniques.

It was actually my teacher Unno Sensei who said that karate is more pratical against multiple opponents than aikido. His reason behind this was that aikido is essentially a grappling art. Traditional Yoseikan aikido emphasizes judo/jujitsu techniques over traditional aikido ones in randori therefore using sutemi, chokes and ground fighting will obviously limit your range in combat. Unno Sensei generally preferred karate when he fought. He told me he rarely had to use aikido because he'd just knock his opponent's out.

Minoru Mochizuki was basically a MMA pioneer however he was biased to judo as seen in his aikido. I don't really know what his theory on multiple opponents was. I have his book but haven't got around to reading the section on ninindori.

My reason for having a go at youtube is that those videos are basically rigged. Most of them are instructional or designed to show off a style.

Anyway I hoipe this doesn't turn out to be an argument. You have more experience than me and I see what your were trying to say. I agree with your point on atemi.
No Worries Darin. I am glad you and Paul have discovered Nishio Shihan. I understand why Unno Sensei would want to use Karate in a dangerous encounter. Everyone has thier "Money Punch" aka "Knockout Blow"... A Favorite Technique they can execute without thought from muscle memory under duress. It's still Aikido as knocking someone out prevents them from further harm.

Nishio Shihan understood the practical nature of Budo very well... Which is why all our techniques start with a "Knockout Blow" so to speak. He used to say "In Aikido The fight is over at the moment of first contact." This "Knockout blow" is exactly what he meant. Nage should "accept (enter/Irimi) and influance (Atemi)" Uke to achieve harmony with him/Her "right off the bat" to end the conflict before it escalates into a Technique.

Nishio Sensei understood with O'Sensei blessing that Aikido must both survive and evolve as a Martial Art. His Aikido when applied as a Martial Art is very effective When combined with the Spirit of Aikido it becomes a tool in which a person can change from a Fighter to a Person of Peace.

I hope that last line makes sense. It is sometimes hard to articulate my feelings correctly.

William Hazen
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Old 08-04-2007, 12:29 PM   #36
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

I've never watched Nishio sensei much. He really is smooth. His ideas about Aikido seem sound, and practical. Does he ever train beyond theory though?

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Old 08-04-2007, 12:34 PM   #37
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
No Worries Darin. I am glad you and Paul have discovered Nishio Shihan. I understand why Unno Sensei would want to use Karate in a dangerous encounter. Everyone has thier "Money Punch" aka "Knockout Blow"... A Favorite Technique they can execute without thought from muscle memory under duress. It's still Aikido as knocking someone out prevents them from further harm.

Nishio Shihan understood the practical nature of Budo very well... Which is why all our techniques start with a "Knockout Blow" so to speak. He used to say "In Aikido The fight is over at the moment of first contact." This "Knockout blow" is exactly what he meant. Nage should "accept (enter/Irimi) and influance (Atemi)" Uke to achieve harmony with him/Her "right off the bat" to end the conflict before it escalates into a Technique.

Nishio Sensei understood with O'Sensei blessing that Aikido must both survive and evolve as a Martial Art. His Aikido when applied as a Martial Art is very effective When combined with the Spirit of Aikido it becomes a tool in which a person can change from a Fighter to a Person of Peace.

I hope that last line makes sense. It is sometimes hard to articulate my feelings correctly.

William Hazen
Especially after munching a handful of those funny mushrooms they were handing out at the last rainbow gathering.

No-No, just kidding.

You articulated a sometimes difficult equation to map, which for me could boil down to "Peace is power used pacificly". Discover true power through excellent training and continue on your way.

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 08-04-2007 at 12:36 PM.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:03 PM   #38
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I've never watched Nishio sensei much. He really is smooth. His ideas about Aikido seem sound, and practical. Does he ever train beyond theory though?
What kind of question is that? With all due respect Chris it's a silly question.

Show up at the next seminar with Yoshida Shihan and find out for yourself.

We've converted quite a few Theorists over the years. LOL

William Hazen
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:05 PM   #39
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Especially after munching a handful of those funny mushrooms they were handing out at the last rainbow gathering.

No-No, just kidding.

You articulated a sometimes difficult equation to map, which for me could boil down to "Peace is power used pacificly". Discover true power through excellent training and continue on your way.
I hope to see you at the next rainbow gathering.

William Hazen
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:47 PM   #40
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
I hope to see you at the next rainbow gathering.

William Hazen
Or perhaps at the next seminar your dojo hosts (hint-hint). I'll provide the rainbows.

I hope to train with many of you in the years to come.

Back to my cave,now.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:24 PM   #41
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Or perhaps at the next seminar your dojo hosts (hint-hint). I'll provide the rainbows.

I hope to train with many of you in the years to come.

Back to my cave,now.
What else do you think I meant by "Rainbow Gathering" LOL I mean this is Malibu.

Surfs fun right now and I am outta here!

William Hazen
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:33 PM   #42
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
What kind of question is that? With all due respect Chris it's a silly question.

Show up at the next seminar with Yoshida Shihan and find out for yourself.

We've converted quite a few Theorists over the years. LOL

William Hazen
Funny thing I find about people who just do theory is that they don't know that they just do theory. I have not seen any video of him doing actual application, only theory.

I think your answer is more silly then my question. Most Aikidoka only do theory. Actually, from what I know save tomiki guys and Mits Yamashita, all teachers just do theory.

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Old 08-04-2007, 09:03 PM   #43
CNYMike
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Shayaan Faruqi wrote: View Post
..... Why is it that no Aikido schools teach contact sparring?
Mostly because that diverges from the founder's vision of Aikido. He didn't like the idea of a scenario where one person can "win" and another can "lose." Since sparring can lead to contests with winners and losers, no sparring.

You have to remember a martial art is not just a collection of techniques but a snapshot of whatever its founder was thinking. It doesn't matter which art you're doing; that's true of all of them. You're always getting the techniques and the founder's thinking, because if you become a teacher in that art, that's what you have to communicate.

Now, if you really want to spar more than anything, either (A) don't do Aikido and find another system more to your liking; or (B) train in both Aikido and another system at the same time. If you have the time, can afford it, and your instructors don't have a problem with it, do it if you want to.

Don't take Aikido and whine about not sparring; you won't be doing yourself any favors and you'll just be a pain to everyone who hears it.

Good luck!
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Old 08-04-2007, 09:03 PM   #44
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Show up at the next seminar with Yoshida Shihan and find out for yourself.
Are there any place online to see videos of previous Yoshida Shihan seminars?
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:00 PM   #45
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Funny thing I find about people who just do theory is that they don't know that they just do theory. I have not seen any video of him doing actual application, only theory.

I think your answer is more silly then my question. Most Aikidoka only do theory. Actually, from what I know save tomiki guys and Mits Yamashita, all teachers just do theory.
Must be tough to be a big fish in a small pond...

Like I said before... I welcome the opportunity for you to show up at the next seminar with an open mind.Nishio Shihan only had 50+years of Aikido Judo Karate Iaido and Jodo Practice and was awarded Japan's highest civilian honor for his developments in Aikido before he passed away...

Jury's still out on your legacy...Practice Hard.

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 08-04-2007 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:23 PM   #46
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Are there any place online to see videos of previous Yoshida Shihan seminars?
Not that I know of. Yoshida Shihan is really busy teaching in Europe Russia and The United States and I am sure he's being filmed all over the place now.

I think the Aikido Journal may have a few clips of him at a demonstration but as a rule Senior Yudansha of Nishio Shihan have not been into being filmed all that much. Shoji Nishio himself was very reluctant to expose too much because he was always refining his technique to match advancements in other Martial Arts and he felt the viewer would not appreciate or mistake what he/she saw as "The way we do it." Stan (Pranin) Finally convinced him to write something down before he passed, and the result was "Yurusu Budo" ("The Budo of Acceptance." Our Aikido)

Koji Yoshida lived with Nishio Shihan fulltime for over ten years as Uchi Deshi and has practiced andtaught Aikido for over 35 years. We were very lucky that Nishio Shihan appointed him US Represenative before he passed. He will eventually get more exposure here in the US we hope... As our Aikido as an organization is very small, and consists of a half a dozen dojos. In Europe and Japan our Aikido is huge but here we got a late state (Nishio Shihan first visited the States in the early 80's).

Sorry if this is TMI but I will provide stuff from Yoshida Shihan as it becomes availible to me.

William Hazen
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:10 AM   #47
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Must be tough to be a big fish in a small pond...

Like I said before... I welcome the opportunity for you to show up at the next seminar with an open mind.Nishio Shihan only had 50+years of Aikido Judo Karate Iaido and Jodo Practice and was awarded Japan's highest civilian honor for his developments in Aikido before he passed away...

Jury's still out on your legacy...Practice Hard.

William Hazen
William, do you always take everything as an attack?

I'm not saying he's bad, or that I'm good. I'm not saying if he doesn't do application he sucks. I'm not saying that he doesn't know anything. I'm just asking if he does application. If so, is there a video I can watch, because that would be cool.

I'd love to train at his seminar. When is the next one, how much does it cost...

I'm not asking you to prove anything, but a little more info would be cool.

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Old 08-05-2007, 12:12 AM   #48
G DiPierro
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote: View Post
Mostly because that diverges from the founder's vision of Aikido. He didn't like the idea of a scenario where one person can "win" and another can "lose." Since sparring can lead to contests with winners and losers, no sparring.
I've seen this rationale before and it makes no sense. How can you have any kind of two-person martial arts training without one person eventually winning and the other person losing? Certainly you have this in every aikido technique: the nage wins and the uke loses.

The reasons why there are no sparring in most styles of aikido originally were historical, but recently they have become mainly political. If you introduced realistic resistance training at this point in any of the major organizations that do not have it, a lot of people in powerful places would be shocked to find out how badly their techniques work against resistance (or at least their students who have been deifying them all these years would be).
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:43 AM   #49
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Not that I know of. Yoshida Shihan is really busy teaching in Europe Russia and The United States and I am sure he's being filmed all over the place now.
I would be interested in training with him, but I can't financially and geographically. I think in the day of YouTube and Aikido forums asking for a video of one's teaching isn't such a big deal, so I don't see why it has to be a rule not to.
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:20 AM   #50
Aikibu
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Re: Sparring in Aikido?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
William, do you always take everything as an attack?

I'm not saying he's bad, or that I'm good. I'm not saying if he doesn't do application he sucks. I'm not saying that he doesn't know anything. I'm just asking if he does application. If so, is there a video I can watch, because that would be cool.

I'd love to train at his seminar. When is the next one, how much does it cost...

I'm not asking you to prove anything, but a little more info would be cool.
No Worries Chris...Just a bit of verbal Irimi... Perhaps you want to revisit your "Theory versus Application" statement I don't think it comes across too well but perhaps it's just a question of semantics?

I'll pass on Seminar Info as soon as I get it.

William Hazen
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