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Old 07-27-2007, 05:22 PM   #1
"AnonAikidoka"
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Need some advice.

Okay whilst this is not strictly about Aikido itself, I feel it may potentially have an impact on what happens at the dojo when I see the guy again in training and indeed at Aikido socials etc.

Bare with me, this is going to take some explaining.

So I met this guy in training and throughout about six months I got to know him, I assumed fairly well. We fell into, what I assumed to be, in a kind of friendship of sorts, even though he is old enough to be my father (in fact he has a daughter my age.) Anyhow we swapped numbers in case one of us could not make it to training so we could pass on apologies to Sensei or needed a lift etc. I gets a phone call from him tonight under the guise of a group of us are going to the beach so I can get some wood for work, want to come along and help out. I agreed and he came and picked me up.

There was no group but that did not concern me at the time because I thought I could trust him. So we went and looked for wood an none suitable and It started to rain so we took shelter to wait it out. (Yes my Innocence and lack of common sense knows no boundary's, I realize that now. I am really inexperienced in well life in general. ) Where he pushed me to the ground and started to tickle me. I told him to stop as it made me uncomfortable , and he did, instead he started kissing me. This freaked me out, I told him so and he apologized, only for him to do it again, told him again , he told me it was only a bit of fun. Trust me, not my idea of fun in the least. Told him that and this happened again only it was rough french kissing got forced into my mouth despite me turning away and covering my mouth with my hand. The position he put me and the fact he overpowered me kind of made it impossible to fight him off and naturally no one else was around. (Again yes I am an idiot!) The rain stopped and so we walked back to his car and being in the middle of nowhere I had no choice but to let him drive me home, where he asked me to forgive him and that was just him having a bit of fun.

Awkward is not even covering how I think things are going to be at the dojo next session we attend together. I think it is going to be inevitable that we have to pair up for at least one thing due to how the classes are structured.

So I guess what I want advice about is should I privately mentioned what has happened to my Sensei (Who I do trust implicitly to treat this sensitively and the dojo is the best one for me) and ask not to be paired with the male in question , or is it a case of keep quiet because theres nothing he can do since it happened away from the dojo. Can Sensei even intervene in this situation? Or was I just a nieve girl who should just chalk it up to experience and learn from this.

I have been left reeling and a bit shaken from this and not certain how I am going to react to any of the males in the class, unfortunately at times I am the only female in training in training and I obviously do not want to miss training as its something I enjoy.

Thanks for any advice you can offer in advance.
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:37 PM   #2
BC
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Re: Need some advice.

Call the police and report him.

Robert Cronin
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:55 PM   #3
Marc Abrams
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Re: Need some advice.

You are a victim of a sexual assault. It is common for the victim to blame her/him - self for having been in the situation. That man is a predator. You were probably not the first victim, and if you want to stop this pattern from finding another victim then I think that you should give some serious consideration to options to prevent another person from being a victim. Reporting him to the police is a very effective option. If you choose this option, I would recommend that you work with a counselor experienced in this area, because of the many ramification involved. There are usually rape hotlines available in most areas where you can talk privately about your experience and work with somebody on a course of action for you to take.

For your healing sake: STOP BLAMING YOURSELF YOU ARE A VICTIM.

Marc Abrams
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:56 PM   #4
Larry Cuvin
 
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Re: Need some advice.

What happened was a sexual assault. Report to the authorities and mention to sensei.

Plus Ki
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:32 PM   #5
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
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Re: Need some advice.

Believe me, Sensei needs to know. The guy is a danger for the school. Yes, it happened away from the school, but exchanging phone numbers, e mails and arranging to give one another a lift or helping each other in any way is common in a dojo. You met this guy in the dojo. He can ruin the school's reputation, and cause female students to leave the school.
Do not leave because of him. He has no right to ruin your life. Look at him straight in the eyes when you see him. He should be ashamed of himself.
And talk to Sensei.
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Old 07-30-2007, 02:07 PM   #6
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Need some advice.

Sexual assault. Repeated unwanted advances after being told to stop. No excuse on his part.

What really worries me is he planned this out to take advantage of your inexperience. Luckily (I use this word advisedly) he did not push it further...you were in a very bad spot. Not your fault...just how it happened.

Please inform your instructor.

Please consider informing authorities.

If you are under the age of legal consent, Please inform both of the above and your parents.

It sucks, but it really is up to you in this life to defend yourself, and protect your boundries. That is not correct...but it is true. What is even worse is that there are scum out there who will abuse your trust. Try to not let this kind of isolated situation arise, and perhaps consider role playing what you can do in such a situation. Not to the point of paranoia, but just to the point of being prepared.

I hope you stay safe, and live well.
Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 07-30-2007 at 02:09 PM. Reason: fyi...rating this thread higly because it is a very important issue.

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 07-30-2007, 03:24 PM   #7
James Davis
 
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Re: Need some advice.

All of the above posters rock, and you should listen to them.

If one of my students were attacked like this by another of my students, I would hope that they would tell me for the sake of the rest of my students.

After I got to know them well, quite a few female friends of mine told me that they had been assaulted in the past. I don't know why so many chose to confide in me, but it was really heart wrending to hear it. Hearing even one person tell me this was enough to be pissed off about, but when I kept hearing it over and over, well, you can probably imagine what the father, brother, and just plain crazy redneck in me started to think.

I pity the poor kid who dates my daughter...

He thinks that you're too embarassed to talk to your sensei.

He thinks that you're too scared to talk to the police.

He thinks that he's going to get away with this, and probably a bunch of other stuff he's done.

I hope you'll prove him wrong. God bless you.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 07-30-2007, 03:26 PM   #8
Janet Rosen
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Re: Need some advice.

I agree with the advice you have already gotten
1. he is a predator who pre-selected you KNOWING that if you didn't cooperate at least you'd be unlikely to "make a fuss."
2. your instructor has a right to know and you have an obligation to report him.
Then I will go further and suggest that in addition to training in aikido you seek out a "model mugging" or rape prevention class, because from how you tell the story it seems you don't have the belief that it is ok to make a fuss...when in fact being rude and loud and making a fuss is exactly what you need to learn to do!
Having said this: it was NOT your fault. Many people, especially many young women, are raised to "be nice" and not offend people, and this man KNEW it, he read it in you but that is HIS fault.

Janet Rosen
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Old 07-30-2007, 03:41 PM   #9
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Re: Need some advice.

Just a point to note, and I appologize here if I sound insensitive- believe me thats not the case.

On a thought,
I just wanted to point out 2 days prior to this post a thread was started at bullshido
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57848
ressurecting a post from aikiweb http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/archiv...php/t-875.html which was back from 2001.

The bullshido post basically attempts to suggest Aikido as a MA draws a lot of pedophiles and sexual deviants.
Quote:
So I do a search on Aikido instructors dating students, and I find this long thread. Apparantly many people have problems with their Aikido instructors dating and hazing sex with students, among other things...
Are aikido instructors just a bunch of perverts, criminals, pedophiles, cult leaders, etc destroying our communities?
The name of the origional poster from 2001 was "Anonanon".

Please don't take offence 'AnonAikidoka', I just felt this post 2 days after the ongoing one from bullshido was interesting.
Good luck with your situation.

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

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Old 07-30-2007, 05:54 PM   #10
SeiserL
 
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Re: Need some advice.

As a professional in the field, please listen to what people are telling.
You did nothing wrong, he did.
You are within your right to press charges.
You are within your right to talk with your Sensei, because sexual predators have no place in the safety of the training hall. He may be asked to leave with good and just cause.
You may want to talk with some one to deprocess or debrief your reaction to the unwanted advances.
Take a deep breath, bow in, stand tall, and train with everyone but him. You have the right not to train with him ever again.
If anyone in your dojo, including Sensei or this individual, have any questions please feel free to give them my contact information. I would consider it an honor.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:41 PM   #11
Qatana
 
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Re: Need some advice.

Not only tell your sensei, tell every other woman who trains in your dojo
You have Nothing to be ashamed of.

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:20 PM   #12
Eric Webber
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Re: Need some advice.

Agree with all above, please call the authorities and report as soon as possible. As well, if you are under age please call your county Children and Youth Services agency as well as Child Line to report the incident. They will help conduct an investigation and hopefully help keep this dude under wrap.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:19 PM   #13
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Re: Need some advice.

First let me say, this guy is a bit off. He is not very sensitive, and could very well be malicious. But he could also just be completely stupid or momentaraly over run by emotion.

I would tell him personally in no uncertain terms that what he did was wrong. That you told him you were not interested and that he forced himself on you. I would also tell him that you no longer feel comfortable around him, and that you will not be doing anything with him again.

If after you talk to him, he tries to contact you in anyway, or he tries to interact with you, then you should tell your sensei that this is happening, and that you no longer wish to train with him. If anything beyond this happens I would get a restraining order. If anything further happens then you can take legal action.

It’s a bad situation you are in. However my personal philosophy is to handle things myself. Telling him what he did clearly, separate from the emotions of the situation should be a nice wake up call for him. If he goes beyond this then either he is truly malicious, or beyond reasoning. Getting a restraining order will notify others of your fear of this man, and make taking legal action easy and straight forward.

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Old 07-30-2007, 11:42 PM   #14
Michael Hackett
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Re: Need some advice.

Based on over thirty years in law enforcement, several of which were as a sexual assault investigator, I echo loudly the advice to call the local authorities. This was criminal behavior and will only escalate unless it is stopped. Report this character as quickly as you can and then report the incident to your sensei. He has a duty to your fellow students to protect them from harm as well. It is also very worthwhile to seek out help from your local rape crisis center. You may not need anything at all and can put it in a healthy perspective, but then again, having someone knowledgeable to talk it out with can be very healthy and helpful.

You gotta be scared to death - I don't blame you. Glad you're alright.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:54 AM   #15
Marc Abrams
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Re: Need some advice.

Chris:

I respectfully STRONGLY disagree with your advice. I, like Dr. Seiser am a practicing psychologist, and have worked with other victims of crimes. This person is FAR beyond the point of needing to talk directly to that predator. That predator knew exactly what he was doing. His actions are usually called "grooming behaviors" setting a person up to be a victim.

This person needs to face the consequences of his actions at a far greater level than face-to-face talking. The victim also needs to be helped to process the trauma and learn to become empowered in a manner that is safe and personal-growth enhancing.

Marc Abrams
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:48 AM   #16
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Re: Need some advice.

I often disagree with what "modern psychology" has to say about things. I believe the most powerful thing anyone can do is directly face that which threatens them.

Directly telling this creep what he has done, and why you will not be associating with him is the most "empowering" thing you can do. Calling the cops and hoping others will take care of things for you and make you feel better about the situations is, the opposite of empowerment.

It's scary no doubt, but going in head first will make you feel wonders better about yourself. Now the question of if she's in any real danger, yes, quite possibly. So if the jerk doesn't stop, I would notify others (restraining order), and arm myself.

What that person did was wrong and violent. This act of violence was perpetrated directly on her. Getting others involved doesn't give her more power, but takes away from her self image. Puts a little note in her mind that says “if someone's not there to help us, we’re not going to be able to take care of it”.

This is also a good time to start learning about why people carry pepper spray, stun guns, and learn to fight for real.

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Old 07-31-2007, 09:13 AM   #17
Marc Abrams
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Re: Need some advice.

Chris:

By "modern psychology" you are referring to what? How many victims of crimes have you actually work with in helping them to empower themselves? You speak from a place of too little experience and knowledge, which can be dangerous.

I do not necessarily disagree with your idea of how people can empower themselves. In this type of situation, your advice might be well-intended, but is simply ill-guided and inappropriate. You might want to re-read this person's initial post and try and gain some real awareness as to where this person is at.

Let's review some of the previous posters. So far, we have two psychologists' posts, and post from a law enforcement officer with direct experience in these types of matters. They, and it seems, everybody else make recommendations that are quite different from yours. Do you think that maybe you want to reconsider your proposal? Might you want to consider that people with real experience in helping people in similar positions have a better sense of what might help?

Marc Abrams
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:35 AM   #18
Michael Hackett
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Re: Need some advice.

She can gain the empowerment Chris suggests when she gives her victim impact statement in court during sentencing.

Michael
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:58 AM   #19
Jerry Miller
 
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Re: Need some advice.

This person is behaving like a predator and trying to see how far he can push his boundaries. If you were the sensei or an instructor and a student came to you with this what would you do? What are the options that you would consider? How would you make the person feel safe in the dojo? This person lost a great deal of innocence and may not trust anyone because of this.

Last edited by Jerry Miller : 07-31-2007 at 09:59 AM. Reason: grammar

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Old 07-31-2007, 10:07 AM   #20
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Need some advice.

If I were the chief instructor he would be out.

Period.

With the same advice I gave above.

Best,
Ron

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Old 07-31-2007, 11:37 AM   #21
Janet Rosen
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Re: Need some advice.

Chris, while I understand the sentiment behind your posts, the reason I posted as I did was that I believe the very reason she was targeted is that she does not inherently have the capability to stand up on her own...or she would have to start with...which is why I suggested supplementing aikido w/ courses that more directly teach assertive behavior, including "simply" practicing saying NO and meaning it.
Telling a person to be strong doesn't teach her how if she's never modeled the behavior before.

Janet Rosen
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:42 AM   #22
Michael Hackett
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Re: Need some advice.

I agree with Ron - he'd be out the door. By her description of the events, this guy is a sexual predator and they simply don't change their behavior. I suppose there are cases where extensive therapy has controlled the predatory behavior, but I personally have never seen one. From my experience, they simply escalate until something intervenes and stops them. The literature abounds that the conduct increases in frequency and levels of violence. Most of the FBI studies done by the Behavioral Science Unit have shown most sexual serial killers have travelled across a continuum from bedwetting and animal cruelty to conduct like AnonAkidoka described to rape and then murder. Obviously that may not be the case here, but this guy needs to be stopped immediately so we never have to find out for sure.

I believe that a sensei has an obligation to protect his students from dangerous people in and from the dojo, thus leading me to my opinion that this guy should be dismissed.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:58 AM   #23
Marc Abrams
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Re: Need some advice.

Reporting the incident to the police and pressing charges would result in that predator being arrested. If that person would be allowed out on bail, a condition of that bail would be that he would not be allowed anywhere near the victim. The incident would be published in the media. The sensei would find out and should then ban the person from the dojo and arrange to have the person expelled from any larger organization. I think that simply reporting the incident to the sensei is not enough "justice" for this predator. This was not simply a case of a mistaken intention. If that were so, then the predator would have stopped as soon as the message that his advances were not welcomed were given to him. This predator continued on, indicating to me at least, that this was not an innocent, one-time accident. This predator needs to face his actions in a legal arena.

If the predator was found guilty in a court of law, he would be put in a place where inmates hold a special place in their hearts for sexual predators.

Marc Abrams
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Old 07-31-2007, 01:44 PM   #24
Kevin Wilbanks
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Re: Need some advice.

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Reporting the incident to the police and pressing charges would result in that predator being arrested. If that person would be allowed out on bail, a condition of that bail would be that he would not be allowed anywhere near the victim. The incident would be published in the media. The sensei would find out and should then ban the person from the dojo and arrange to have the person expelled from any larger organization. I think that simply reporting the incident to the sensei is not enough "justice" for this predator. This was not simply a case of a mistaken intention. If that were so, then the predator would have stopped as soon as the message that his advances were not welcomed were given to him. This predator continued on, indicating to me at least, that this was not an innocent, one-time accident. This predator needs to face his actions in a legal arena.

If the predator was found guilty in a court of law, he would be put in a place where inmates hold a special place in their hearts for sexual predators.

Marc Abrams
I think you are getting a little carried away. It sounds highly doubtful to me, based on the description of the incident, that reporting it to the police is going to result in all this. First of all, where is the evidence? It will just be one party's word vs. another. Second, is this really the kind of sexual assault that gets someone thrown in maximum security prison? A forced "french kiss" on a consensual outing, followed by an apology and a ride home?

I think it is irresponsible to tell her to expect such consequences from reporting it to the police. I doubt that he would even be arrested. Likely the adverse consequences for the guy will max out at court hassles and expenses, a police record, and possibly a small penalty of some kind. Minimum would be that the case doesn't have enough merit to pursue and a report is filed. Still, I think it is a good idea to notify the police and try to press charges, as a duty to future potential victims. Even just a report on record will make it harder for him to do it again.

***

I also think Chris H's advice is not so bad, just impractical. Doing what he says would probably be the best thing anyone could do for themselves in a situation like this in the long run. However, as someone else pointed out, the whole reason this victim was probably singled out is because of the fact that she is not the kind of person who is capable of it.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 07-31-2007 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 07-31-2007, 03:25 PM   #25
James Davis
 
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Re: Need some advice.

Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote: View Post
I think you are getting a little carried away. It sounds highly doubtful to me, based on the description of the incident, that reporting it to the police is going to result in all this. First of all, where is the evidence? It will just be one party's word vs. another. Second, is this really the kind of sexual assault that gets someone thrown in maximum security prison? A forced "french kiss" on a consensual outing, followed by an apology and a ride home?

I think it is irresponsible to tell her to expect such consequences from reporting it to the police. I doubt that he would even be arrested. Likely the adverse consequences for the guy will max out at court hassles and expenses, a police record, and possibly a small penalty of some kind. Minimum would be that the case doesn't have enough merit to pursue and a report is filed. Still, I think it is a good idea to notify the police and try to press charges, as a duty to future potential victims. Even just a report on record will make it harder for him to do it again.
What happens to him is dependent on what her age is and whether he's been picked up for this type of thing before.

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