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Old 07-20-2007, 01:02 PM   #1
arjandevries
Dojo: Ima Juku
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6th kyu

As I was browsing through the kyu grades on the Aikikai Hombu dojo I noticed that they do not have sixth kyu.

Are there any 'rules' on this? I have 6th kyu in my requirements.

What is your opinion about the 6th kyu?

Arjan
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Old 07-20-2007, 11:43 PM   #2
dalen7
 
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
Arjan de Vries wrote: View Post
As I was browsing through the kyu grades on the Aikikai Hombu dojo I noticed that they do not have sixth kyu.

Are there any 'rules' on this? I have 6th kyu in my requirements.

What is your opinion about the 6th kyu?

Arjan
Depends...some systems follow the u.s.a.f.'s route - which start at 5th. (well, they may or may not have a 6th...but it appears that it would be automatically given and not really a level per say that you test for.)

At my dojo we have 6 levels also. And as well we have a totally different system of requirements than the u.s.a.f.'s (which even the guy that showed his test from Morocco follows - again, not the sytstem I am in but the U.S.A.F. system)

I actually have taken the two system requirements and combined them together as they are vastly different.

Whats kind of strange to, from what I have seen, is how long it takes people to reach shodan. My instructor has been doing aikido about 10 years and is still 1kyu. I dont think its the system itself - but the lack of opportunity to fullfil the required practice days as hes not able to train regularly with a sensai. - but we have 2nd kyus that have trained about 7 years, etc. - so I guess I would be a grandpa by the time I grade in this system.

They are actually holding test today/tomorrow at our dojo (we had a 4 day seminar/camp, and I am sore eveywhere...guess it shows you how out of shape I am - but anyway.)

I would be intersted if your testing system is similar to mine.

For 6th Kyu we have to know the following:

Ai Hanmi Katate Tori: Irimi Nage, Shiho Nage, Kote GAeshi, Uchikaiten Nage
Gyaku Hanmi Katate Tori: Kokyuho

Shomenuchi: Irimi Nage

Katame Waza: Ai Hanmi Katate Tori: Ikkyo, Nikyo, Sankyo

As well as know the 4 principles from Koichi Tohei (we are not ki- aikido however)
Basic stances: Shizentai, Hidari Kama, Migi Kamae
Basic steps: Irimi, Tai Sabaki, Ushiro Tenkan, Kaiten Ashi
Ukemi: Ushiro Ukemi, Mae Uekemi

Well the best to you in your studies...

Peace

Dalen

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-20-2007 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 07-21-2007, 02:35 AM   #3
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
Arjan de Vries wrote: View Post
As I was browsing through the kyu grades on the Aikikai Hombu dojo I noticed that they do not have sixth kyu.

Are there any 'rules' on this? I have 6th kyu in my requirements.

What is your opinion about the 6th kyu?

Arjan
Hello Arjan,

I think the kyu grades are very much a matter of individual dojo and instructor. When I was in the UK, there were six kyu grades, but givng them was an intenral matter, without reference to the Aikikai.

Here in Japan, we are one of the few dojos to follow the Hombu's kyu system and have our dojo members become members of the Aikikai on obtaining 5th kyu. However, the examination and syllabus is a matter for each dojo to decide, but it is assumed that we will follow the Aikikai's guidelines as a bare minimum.

In Europe there is a tradition of having 6 kyu ranks, but there is also a tradition of seeing shodan as a kind of halfway point, which comes at the end of a laborious descent of the kyu grades. So at shodan and even 1st kyu, you can begin to teach. I have never come across kyu grades and shodan yudansha teaching in Japan, except in very special circumstances. In Japan shodan is where you really start and so it is comparatively easier to obtain.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 07-21-2007, 05:53 AM   #4
arjandevries
Dojo: Ima Juku
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Re: 6th kyu

Hi Peter Sensei,

The last sentence explains a lot about the hours students have to practise to obtain Shodan level.

I was revewing the requirements of my own dojo. They more or less are what I was doing in my former dojo.

I believe now there is a time to seriously look at the requirements.

So I looked around and noticed a lot of dojo's don't have 6th kyu.

Thanks for shining the light on this and I will see you soon in Holland.

Arjan
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Old 07-21-2007, 06:28 AM   #5
Mark Uttech
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Re: 6th kyu

6th kyu is a good beginning. Shodan is another beginning on another level. All of the levels are actually good.

In gassho

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 07-21-2007, 02:02 PM   #6
dalen7
 
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote: View Post
6th kyu is a good beginning. Shodan is another beginning on another level. All of the levels are actually good.

In gassho

Mark
From what I have seen at 2nd kyu is where I notice a difference, and of course 1kyu. (my instructor is 1kyu and we have another 1kyu and about three 2kyus on the verge of moving up...)

Those at 4th kyu are good, also,etc.
The main difference is that, of course, there is more of a confidence of what has been learned in the basic level. (referring to 2nd kyu)

Just got finished (well tomorrow morning will finish a 4 day seminar)

We had a 4th dan there, who you could tell was on a level above the 1st kyu (the 1st kyu' s have trained 7 - 10 years...as one poster said, it does seem to be a long process in europe - albeit, we only train twice a week...anyway...just variances in doing the same thing)

But the point is, the 4th dan, you could feel he was not only fluid..but had total confidence...and able to quickly adapt.

It was kind of fun, as he came up and did iriminage...using a pressure point...with his pinky he had me on the ground.

I saw two 1kyu on their own practicing pressure points...and they were good...but it took them time to get the location exact...not much...but to much in a real situation.

Sensei Imre (4th dan) came up, and with no effort of 'searching' for a point, had me down.

Now that is the level that I would call master.
I mean, at this level one can defend themself instantly without much thought. Of course, only God knows how many years or how much practice he put in...also, i was told he is black belt in Kendo, battodo, aikido, and something else to do with jo (Im not sure of the list - so there is some cross training in there obviously.

Anyway, to the original poster...dont worry to much about the details of levels...what are you getting out of it?
Levels dont matter in and of themself. We have a 1st kyu level who still is white belt...hasnt tested in 5 years...hes not into testing, but is extremely effective and a security officer...suppose someone else is impressed with his skills.

Later

Peace

Dalen

7th kyu (if they had such a thing - lol )

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-21-2007 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 07-22-2007, 07:34 AM   #7
RoyK
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post

Those at 4th kyu are good, also,etc.
The main difference is that, of course, there is more of a confidence of what has been learned in the basic level. (referring to 2nd kyu)
I'm more accustomed to grading that is related both to the amount of time one practices and to the improvement each person gains in relation to him/herself.

Therefore, I've seen so much variation among people with the same grade that I'd never generalize and say "those at 4th kyu are this and that". However, I would like to be able to say that "those at 4th kyu should be able to do this and that". But even that I unfortunately can't say, from what I've seen so far.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:57 AM   #8
arjandevries
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Re: 6th kyu

Hi Roy,

I agree that grading is a difficult thing and is very subjective...

I agree that you have to look at technical progression and classattendence.

This does not garantee a simular level for all the people. (Lack of) Talent is what makes the difference.

Greetings,

Arjan
(ps greetings to Eli Lerman, a personal friend of mine!)
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:53 AM   #9
Erik Calderon
 
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Re: 6th kyu

Each dojo, or shihan assembles his or her own testing requirements.

Honbu dojo in Japan, starts at 5th kyu and in 1 year and a half you can get shodan.

http://www.shinkikan.com

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Old 07-24-2007, 12:44 PM   #10
dalen7
 
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
Erik Calderon wrote: View Post
Each dojo, or shihan assembles his or her own testing requirements.

Honbu dojo in Japan, starts at 5th kyu and in 1 year and a half you can get shodan.
Hmmm, but they train more than twice a week for sure.

Peace
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:07 AM   #11
jimscape
 
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Re: 6th kyu

My dojo also uses six kyus.

I'm testing for my 6th kyu in about five weeks and am apprehensive

as I'd like to get on the board so to speak.

I'm fortunate to belong to a dojo with plenty of yudansha and high ranking mudansha that can help me with training.

I've been practicing aikido for eight months and only now feel oriented and kind of feel like I know my way around the mat just a little bit.

Aikido is like anything else, the more one learns, the deeper aspects of the art become apparent and sometimes I feel out of my depth when doing the more advanced techniques. I feel like a babe learning to walk all over again.

Hopefully on Sept 10, I'll no longer be "kyuless"
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:14 PM   #12
dalen7
 
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
James Sherlock wrote: View Post
Hopefully on Sept 10, I'll no longer be "kyuless"
cool - I was just old today that I can test in Dec (I was hoping a bit earlier, but thats fine.) - as of now I to am kyuless

dalen

- hey, what are your requirements for 6th kyu test?
curious, as it does vary from place to place...
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:15 PM   #13
odudog
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
Hmmm, but they train more than twice a week for sure.

Peace
Honbu is open everyday of the week for a lot of hours of each day. However, the requirements for each rank is not as extensive as other dojos in foreign countries. So a blackbelt or any kyu rank in a foreign country could actually know a lot more than his/her Japanese counterpart.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:48 PM   #14
Anja Lampert
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Re: 6th kyu

We also have 6th kyu in our dojo and I just passed my test today! Didn't mean to test, but my Sensei told me to go for it, and actually you can't say no, if your Sensei asks you for something, can you?! But although me being quite confused while testing I received my 6th kuy today!
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:09 PM   #15
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: 6th kyu

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
However, the requirements for each rank is not as extensive as other dojos in foreign countries. So a blackbelt or any kyu rank in a foreign country could actually know a lot more than his/her Japanese counterpart.
Are we equating extensiveness with the number of minimum techniques tested? A black belt could have only a superficial knowledge of a vast array of techniques, while completely failing to meet the requirements for the ones outlined in the minimum standards of the founder's organisation. You could make the Aikikai shodan syllabus the 10th kyu requirements for your local dojo in order to claim you have "more extensive requirements" than the Japanese. However, if you expect that 10th kyu to be able to do those techniques at the same standard as the shodan, that person is probably going to have to put in the same amount of mat time and effort (you might also want to introduce a few kyus prior to 10th in this case and don't go complaining if you never have any shihan).

I've only trained at the Hombu a few times, but every time, without fail, I have met talented foreigners funnily enough. The counterparts you refer to are not only Japanese. Those that are Japanese get to train with foreigners regularly, under some of Osensei's direct students, several times a day. I'd say the teachers are more important than the tools they use to measure progress. The ranks are just way-markers and every teacher will have different ways of applying and extending their testing criteria.

What do you think the minimum requirements should be for the many nationalities and thousands of teachers that train under the Aikikai umbrella?

Quote:
Anja Lampert wrote: View Post
We also have 6th kyu in our dojo and I just passed my test today! Didn't mean to test, but my Sensei told me to go for it, and actually you can't say no, if your Sensei asks you for something, can you?! But although me being quite confused while testing I received my 6th kuy today!
If he asks you for your PIN number or something I'd say no, but if he thought you were ready to grade, it probably means a lot. I remember going to a seminar once and getting a grading sprung on me out of the blue. I'm sure they accounted for any confusion, both in my case and yours, since you don't have as much time to prepare when you don't think you're going to test. Well done!

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Old 04-11-2008, 01:11 AM   #16
Anja Lampert
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Re: 6th kyu

Well, yes, I agree on the PIN number thing
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