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Old 07-27-2007, 07:08 AM   #51
Hogan
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Ryan Sanford wrote: View Post
S.. Bet you can't wait for us all to grow up and take over Congress, eh?
God help us.
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:10 AM   #52
Hogan
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote: View Post
...

Tho it makes for stringy and unappetizing fare, I'm sure...
When dealing with you, it is much more like a 10-course meal, actually.
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:13 PM   #53
Neil Mick
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Dead Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
John Hogan wrote: View Post
When dealing with you, it is much more like a 10-course meal, actually.
Thus proving the adage: "One man's food, is another forum's poison"

Last edited by Neil Mick : 07-27-2007 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:23 PM   #54
Michael Varin
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
Trade deficit.
China is kicking our asses, and most people aren't even aware of it. It can't be all bad if it gets some chinese people out of poverty, though.
First off, the trade deficit is often misunderstood and actually, not that important. Do you know when the US had its largest trade surplus? If I remember correctly, it was during the Great Depression! A real economic problem is inflation. Watch the video linked in my sig line Money, Banking, and the Fed.

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
What, then, do you believe conservatives are conserving?
A welfare-warfare state. The problem is that most believe they are conserving limited government, individual liberty, and free-markets, but it is simply not the case.

These are actually radical ideas. They were when this country was founded and they still are today.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 07-28-2007, 01:08 PM   #55
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: A President's Thought

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John Hogan wrote: View Post
God help us.
God help them.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-30-2007, 03:20 PM   #56
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Re: A President's Thought

Hey Neil!
Where ya been hanging out!

You guys don't have much in the line of good choices for next prez huh.

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

You don't own what you can't defend
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:00 PM   #57
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Re: A President's Thought

the word "terrorist" is thrown around too loosely, and has become hard to define. also, the Middle East is a 3-D rubix cube, not a 2-d melodrama of good vs. evil.

i defer to the Art of War when criticizing Bush's strategy:

1) Know yourself, know your enemy.

2) Force should always be a last resort. we just kinda waltzed right in.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:21 PM   #58
Michael Varin
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
You guys don't have much in the line of good choices for next prez huh.
Actually, we have an excellent candidate. His name is Ron Paul. He's vying for the Republican nomination. Electing him would be the first step in making a REAL change in a positive direction. It's just a matter of the people educating themselves, and not blindly voting for the names they hear repeated on TV.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:37 AM   #59
Hogan
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Actually, we have an excellent candidate. His name is Ron Paul. He's vying for the Republican nomination. Electing him would be the first step in making a REAL change in a positive direction. It's just a matter of the people educating themselves, and not blindly voting for the names they hear repeated on TV.
He has as much chance of winning as Zsa Zsa Gabor.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:25 AM   #60
James Davis
 
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Actually, we have an excellent candidate. His name is Ron Paul. He's vying for the Republican nomination. Electing him would be the first step in making a REAL change in a positive direction. It's just a matter of the people educating themselves, and not blindly voting for the names they hear repeated on TV.
I like Mike Huckabee, myself. Is there anything in particular that Ron Paul has said that struck a chord for you?

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:21 PM   #61
dps
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Re: A President's Thought

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Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
One man's terrorist is another man's patriot.
And the terrorists in Iraq are patriots for whom?

David
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Old 07-31-2007, 01:42 PM   #62
David Orange
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Re: A President's Thought

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Grant Wagar wrote: View Post
You guys don't have much in the line of good choices for next prez huh.
A monkey will be twice as good as we have now, so I think we can make do with any of the top three dems.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 07-31-2007, 01:44 PM   #63
David Orange
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Re: A President's Thought

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
And the terrorists in Iraq are patriots for whom?
The worldwide caliphate of Islam.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 07-31-2007, 02:20 PM   #64
dps
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
The worldwide caliphate of Islam.

David
This one?

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2798

David
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:36 PM   #65
Neil Mick
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote: View Post
Hey Neil!
Where ya been hanging out!

You guys don't have much in the line of good choices for next prez huh.
I've been avoiding the fora. I'm pretty peeved about the changes in moderation. But oh well..

And what do you mean?? I LOVE Hillary!! Just listening to her talk amongst that field of US and Israeli flags at the last AIPAC fundraiser gives me GREAT CONFIDENCE about the future of peace btw the Palestinians and Israeli's.

And the Republican nominees fill me with even MORE...um...confidence! Why, just knowing that THREE of them don't believe in evolution, want to use torture more, and ONE of them wants to expand Guantanamo fills me with shudders of....

oh, ok, you get the idea. No, no confidence in all the "big candidates." But, I'm a 3rd party man till the end, so all the early-bird posturing (with the mainstream media's horserace bleating) interests me very little.

Still, there are a few good ones around the edges...Ron Paul, certainly (I actually met him back in the 80's, when he was running as a Libertarian); Mike Gravell, certainly Dennis Kucinich...

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
And the terrorists in Iraq are patriots for whom?

David
It all depends upon the clothes they wear, the ideologies they follow, and where they came from.

Some of them are patriots against the war against Islam, in from other countries (over half of them from Saudi Arabia).

Some of them are patriots for their Sunni brotherhood/neighborhood, fighting the Shia.

Some of them are patriots for their Shiite brotherhood, fighting the Sunni.

Some of them are Kurds, fighting the Turks.

Some of them are patriots for their particular clan, their families, or patriots for no one...just trying to but food on the table.

Some of the terrorists are patriots walking around in US (and private contractor) uniforms for folks back here, cheering on a war founded by lies, fed and hyped by the mainstream corporate media.

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Ah...Daniel Pipes. Boy, you sure do know how to pick 'em.

Quote:
wikipedia wrote:
Pipes expressed his support of "the internment of Japanese Americans in World War II because...given what was known and not known at the time...the U.S. government made the correct and sensible decisions."[24] (See also his article Japanese Internment: Why It Was a Good Idea--And the Lessons It Offers Today.[25]) Pipes does not "advocate the internment of anyone today."[26]
Boy...THAT's a relief!

Pipes the Propagandist: Bush's nominee doesn't belong at the U.S. Institute for Peace.

Quote:
Christopher Hitchens wrote:
I am not myself a pacifist, and I believe that Islamic nihilism has to be combated with every weapon, intellectual and moral as well as military, which we possess or can acquire. But that is a position shared by a very wide spectrum of people. Pipes, however, uses this consensus to take a position somewhat to the right of Ariel Sharon, concerning a matter (the Israel-Palestine dispute) that actually can be settled by negotiation. And he employs the fears and insecurities created by Islamic extremism to slander or misrepresent those who disagree with him.

Then, I heard recently, Pipes has maintained that professor Edward Said of Columbia University is not really a Palestinian and never lost his family home in Jerusalem in the fighting of 1947-48. I have my own disagreements with Said, but this is a much-discredited libel that undermines the credibility of anybody circulating it. Professor Said is deservedly respected for his long advocacy of mutual recognition between Israelis and Palestinians; yet, once again, Pipes spits and curses at anything short of his own highly emotional agenda. In the February 2003 issue of Commentary magazine, he wrote an attack on the "road map" proposals, which included the words "the so-called Palestinian refugees," and which by other crude tricks of language insinuated that there had been no Palestinian dispossession in the first place. In which case, there is obviously nothing to negotiate about, is there? It's one thing to argue, as many Palestinians are prepared to do, that not every refugee can expect "the right of return." It's quite another to deny history and to assert that there is no refugee problem to begin with.

On more than one occasion, Pipes has called for the extension of Israel's already ruthless policy of collective punishment, arguing that leveling Palestinian villages is justifiable if attacks are launched from among their inhabitants. It seems to me from observing his style that he came to this conclusion with rather more relish than regret. And, invited recently to comment on the wartime internment of the Japanese—as a comparison case to his own call for the profiling and surveillance of Muslim and Arab-Americans—he declined on the grounds that he didn't know enough about the subject. One isn't necessarily obliged to know the history of discrimination as it has been applied to American security policy—unless, that is, one is proposing a new form of it. To be uninformed at that point is to disqualify oneself, as the Senate should disqualify Pipes.
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:54 PM   #66
dps
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Re: A President's Thought

Neil, is there a plan for a worldwide caliphate of Islam by the terrorist?

David
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:33 PM   #67
David Orange
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Neil, is there a plan for a worldwide caliphate of Islam by the terrorist?
I didn't realize that you had specified "in Iraq" in your earlier post. I'd say people like bin Laden are fighting for a worldwide caliphate of Islam--Islam governing the entire world.

In Iraq, I'd have to say that Neil painted a pretty accurate picture--though I like Pipes pretty well and I have to agree that internment of the Japanese in WWII was sensible. And I speak about 70% Japanese at home every day.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:33 PM   #68
Neil Mick
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Neil, is there a plan for a worldwide caliphate of Islam by the terrorist?

David
I dunno...do you?

And, since I just pointed out that "terrorist" is a highly relative term, relative to who we are discussing (and whom is doing the labelling): I'd say that I'm far more worried about a plan for a worldwide Empire of US imperialism by the US terrorists, than I am about some fantastical "worldwide caliphate of Islam." The US terrorists possess the deadlier weapons, and are SUPPOSED to be the moral standard of the world.

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
I have to agree that internment of the Japanese in WWII was sensible.

David
It was many things...racist, based upon fear...but "sensible??"

Hardly.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 07-31-2007 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:12 PM   #69
Neil Mick
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
I didn't realize that you had specified "in Iraq" in your earlier post. I'd say people like bin Laden are fighting for a worldwide caliphate of Islam--Islam governing the entire world.

David
OK, I'm going to stop posting for awhile. But I have to respectfully note that I think you have it backwards. Ppl like OBL are NOT fighting for a "worldwide caliphate of Islam..."

Quote:
wikipedia wrote:
bin Laden issued two fatwas—in 1996 and then again in 1998—that Muslims should kill civilians and military personnel from the United States and allied countries until they withdraw support for Israel and withdraw military forces from Islamic countries.[3][4]
It's all about military occupation of Islamic countries and holy sites, tha is drawing the faithful to fight in jihad.

It makes sense...if you consider the motivating factors of entering into a jihad...do you think that people would be MORE movitated by:

1. Calls for a "Caliphate of Islam" (and determining just whom would end up as caliph would certainly make for a violent exchange, I'm sure); or
2. Calls to end the military occupation of Palestine and other Islamic holy sites?

I don't know about you, but I'd be far more motivated by #2 (were I in that situation...). The victim mentality is far more effective a motivator than a "Caliph and Empire" battlecry...esp when said caliph isn't even specifically named.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:28 AM   #70
Michael Varin
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
I have to agree that internment of the Japanese in WWII was sensible.
That's appalling, David, but now I see why you don't have a problem with the "top three Dems." And I don't know about you, but I don't want to just "make do" anymore.

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
I like Mike Huckabee, myself. Is there anything in particular that Ron Paul has said that struck a chord for you?
Here you pick. http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/
In a word, freedom. I highly recommend looking more closely at him.

I vote for smaller, less intrusive government. Huckabee isn't really committed to that as a goal. Just off the top of my head he is pro-subsidies, his foreign policy is no change from what we've had for the last 60 years, and he wants a revenue neutral "Fair Tax."

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:05 AM   #71
dps
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Re: A President's Thought

ooops

Last edited by dps : 08-01-2007 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:08 AM   #72
dps
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote: View Post
The victim mentality is far more effective a motivator than a "Caliph and Empire" battlecry...
Exactly, use the more effective motivator to achieve thier( terrorist's ) goal of a Worldwide Caliphate of Islam.

David
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:32 AM   #73
Fred Little
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Re: A President's Thought

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Exactly, use the more effective motivator to achieve thier( terrorist's ) goal of a Worldwide Caliphate of Islam.

David
Fundamentalism in all of its forms can be more than a bit problematic when joined with political or military power.

A bit closer to home, some of us are equally concerned about the goals of some US nationals, which have been described as "Christian Dominionism."

Of particular concern is a strain of Christian Zionism, the best known proponent of which is Rev. John Hagee, which actively advocates the reconstruction of a Third Temple in Jerusalem, specifically so that biblical prophecies regarding the end times can be fulfilled and Armageddon can be hastened.

Allowing the terms of discourse to be defined by battling religious fundamentalisms, particularly when one has no allegiance to any of the three primary fundamentalisms in question, does not strike me as a particularly sane or safe course of action.

Best,

FL
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:33 AM   #74
Neil Mick
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Exactly, use the more effective motivator to achieve thier( terrorist's ) goal of a Worldwide Caliphate of Islam.

David
Which, of course, you (and the other ppl who write about it) know is their goal, so much better than all the other followers, because.....

If you're sensible...you don't plan on making castles in the sky and future plans for caliphates that haven't a prayer's chance of succeeding, when you're fighting an occupier.

The idea of an "Islamic threat" sounds more like a motivator for scaring people here rather than a plan for world domination. More in line (and mechanics) with the "Communist threat" scares back home, c 1950's.

Quote:
Fred Little wrote: View Post
A bit closer to home, some of us are equally concerned about the goals of some US nationals, which have been described as "Christian Dominionism."

Best,

FL
Hey Fred,

Long time no see. Yes, Christian Dominionism is a big concern. Just watch "Jesus Camp" if you don't believe me.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 08-01-2007 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 12:35 PM   #75
dps
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Re: A President's Thought

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote: View Post
Yes, Christian Dominionism is a big concern. Just watch "Jesus Camp" if you don't believe me.
Then watch any of the videos on the web that show Islamic terroists beheading thier prisoners and then decide whom you should be concerned about.

David
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