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Old 07-16-2007, 02:32 AM   #26
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
If you want to know that your technique works - (and please, for the love of God, I hope this doesnt lead into a rabbit trail - from past post I can see how someone can miss the base point) - again, when someone does a move on you and the pain can be felt, you will tend to flow with that, and it wont be 'fake' (or resist it and try to break free...which will cause more damage, especially with tissues, joint manipultaion.) -

Thats it...all I wanted to say.
I put sankyo on a newbie (even newer than me) and nothing was felt, I did it differently and the pain was there like it was supposed to be, and they 'went with it' not to show off, but because they flow with whats happening. (and yes they can break out etc.)
Hi Dalen,
while it is running somewhat off topic as testing is not street testing:
I understand what you are saying and yes, verifying the effectiveness of techniques is valid training. Some dojo do it some do not, so discussion, if it is necessary might go on somewhere else.

You uke feels the pain it is not fake - agreed. And if uke does not move at all the technique is not effective enough.
But if uke does not feel any pain and does not know, why he felt, it does not need to be a fake. It might be just a good and effective technique.
And if a beginner uke moves according to the pain, the technique does not at all need to be effective. It might just say that the uke is foolish. An experienced uke could be resistent in an inteligent way, say just change a little bit in the kamae or twist the arm and nage is not able to do any harm on him. Or even better, instead of being resistent he could flow with nage's technique and just turn it into aa wonderful counter.

Peaceful regards

Dirk
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:14 AM   #27
Aristeia
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Ahmed, Dalen

You are both making the same basic mistake over and over:
the dojo is not the street

* In the dojo you learn, in the street you fight.
* In the dojo you are obliged to a Kata - specific situation and specific technical response, down to the variation. In the street you adjust the solution to the current situation and may change techniques in mid-stride. (the point I tried to explain before)
* In the dojo Uke knows the Kata in advance, and may prepare and deflect the technique before it even started. In the street the attacker is not supposed to know you practice M.A. at all, let alone expect your next move.

For these reasons, and quite a few others, a beginner Uke in the dojo should not try to imitate the supposed attacker response in the street (unless he is told otherwise).
This is particularly true for a student preparing to a test. In the test, sensei will examine the technique quality and not you. Therefore, while preparing to the exam, one wishes to polish his techniques to improve his current level.
At such a point, I often asked people to be as soft as following as possible - reflect my actions as a mirror would. This way, I will see what I am doing. If Uke starts to enter his own agenda, the mirror will be distorted and I will have to sort out my actions from his responses, a much more difficult task leading to less efficient polishing.

I know beginners often wish to see the "street effectiveness" of Aikido at every step. It is a great passion, but a wrong way to learn, at least by Aikido methodology. If you wish to feel the "street effectiveness", find a suitable Tori - Yundasha or so, ask him before hand, and then let him play with you

Amir
Post of the week imo.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:57 AM   #28
Nick P.
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Ahmed Altalib wrote: View Post

So what do you dudZ think about this?
So, based on your responses to those who have posted their thoughts, you are not so much looking for our thoughts on the topic, as much as you are looking for everyone to mirror your opinion.

Looks like you have a few that do, but most do not share your opinion.

Based on your logic, a fifth kyu (or whatever the lowest rank is at any particular dojo) should be able to throw someone who starte just the week before? I have seen many, many, many kyu tests by some very gifted and talented nages doing their first, second and third exams, and that scenario borders on impossible.

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Old 07-16-2007, 06:37 AM   #29
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

"So what do you dudZ think about this?"[/quote]

I would have sat you right down and called up another uke.

Mary
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:13 AM   #30
Basia Halliop
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it if it's what your nage wants and finds helpful. If you find that useful yourself, and find that it provides a feedback that helps you, invite your ukes to do it when you're nage. But do try not to impose your own preferences or learning style on other people. It can be really frustrating if you're trying to work on a particular aspect of your training, and your partner keeps 'taking over' and trying to force you to work on something else that they are personally more interested in.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:15 AM   #31
PeterR
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

This was not only training - but a shinsa.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:51 AM   #32
Marc Abrams
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

I am very clear with my students that the role of the uke is teacher. The question arises as to what kind of teacher you become. Are you providing resistance to help that person succeed, or to demonstrate your superiority? What are you allowing the nage to learn? Amir clearly pointed out that the dojo is not the street, nor is an Aikido dojo and environment in which kumite should exist (which runs directly counter to the "heart of Aikido). The uke also has an important learning opportunity by serving in that role. At it's most basic level, the uke learns how to receive techniques safely. It never ceases to amaze me how some will try as hard as they can to "fail" somebody's technique. Typically, the power ends up hurting themselves when they do not have the sensitivity to realize the injury is about to occur. The alternate is how hard the receive technique that opens up by their unidirectional resistance. At a second level, the uke learns how to remain safe and protected when sent to the ground. At a third level, the uke can learn how to release locked muscles so as to be able to re-align the body so as to escape from the execution of a technique (this needs to be mutually agreed upon, conscious practice). Finally, the uke can learn how to reverse a technique as it is being executed (this also needs to to mutually agreed upon).

Testing time is not the time to let your ego influence the other person's testing experience. The teacher will be well aware of areas that the student needs to work on. We do not need the uke to try and show us what we can typically already see.

The Aikido environment requires implicit and explicit trust in our training partners so that we can mutually help each other's techniques improve. People who typically apply purposeless resistance usually get hurt when a person then applies technique or response to the situation in a manner that fully returns the resistance to the owner. This is what happens on the street, NOT IN THE DOJO.

marc abrams
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:03 AM   #33
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Ahmed Altalib wrote: View Post
maybe before analysing my pre determinations and attitudes you should read Dalen's words below to get my point:
Letter from my dojo if you trained with me:

Thank you for training with us for this short time.
Sensei Jen

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 07-16-2007 at 10:05 AM.

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Old 07-16-2007, 10:19 AM   #34
Qatana
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Clearly the beginners in this thread are far more knowledgeable about proper ukemi, and proper Test ukemi,than the several Sensei who have replied.
Of course, once they have to test with an uke twice their size giving "real" attacks thay might change their minds.

Q
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:28 AM   #35
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Another danger of insufficient randori/jiyuwaza/sparring in aikido -- people start doing silly pseudo-sparring in places where it doesn't particularly belong.

I'd say that not throwing yourself through the air is appropriate in a test -- that is, they should have to really do the technique. Then again, uke needs to supply the right energy (things like trying to always face nage, trying to regain balance, and so forth) as though it were being done "for real". This includes, in my opinion, not "cheating" by anticipating what technique they'll do.

Last edited by Paul Sanderson-Cimino : 07-16-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:53 PM   #36
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Dirk Hanss wrote: View Post
And if a beginner uke moves according to the pain, the technique does not at all need to be effective. It might just say that the uke is foolish. An experienced uke could be resistent in an inteligent way, say just change a little bit in the kamae or twist the arm and nage is not able to do any harm on him. Or even better, instead of being resistent he could flow with nage's technique and just turn it into aa wonderful counter.

Peaceful regards

Dirk
thanks drik very wisely put
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:08 AM   #37
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

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Nick Pittson wrote: View Post
Rock-on, Dude.
"Party on, Wayne."
"Party on, Garth."

Jennifer Paige Smith
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Old 07-22-2007, 08:24 PM   #38
Carlos Rivera
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Ahmed Altalib wrote: View Post
Hi All
Shouldn't the technique work if executed properly regardless of how coperative/uncoperative the opponent is because after all who is going to be submissive and cooperative in a real situation anyway!!!

and yes I do deliberately make it hard for the nage to put me down or move me because I would be cheating him/her if I back fall or fall on my knees every time they execute a technique for the sake of the technique instead of its effectiveness..

So what do you dudZ think about this?
Ahmed,

I do not know you personally, nor what rank or martial arts experience you have. But you still have a lot to learn about Aikido and martial arts. I can tell you that with that attitude or disposition the "welcome mat" would be taken off from under your feet in other places, and in very traditional dojos like in Iwama, Japan, you would hear a very loud "zenbu dame!" (huge and inexcusable mistake) and would be shown the way out- never to return again.

My advice is that Aikido is not a "rock star" style or a "hey, let me show you what a bad_ss I am." The street is the street, and the dojo is for practice- I can tell you that from experience. If you want to test drive your Aikido on the street, then you are not practicing true Aikido nor true Budo. Maybe you need to check other styles that suit your personality or expectations.

Being a good uke means you provide honest atemi, honest grabs, and not trying to showboat at the expense of whoever is testing- that's really bad martial arts etiquette. By honest, I mean there should be a certain degree of resistance but not to the point where a brawl breaks out. By the same token, you are not expected to fall like a house of cards. But being stubborn like a mule may lead to injury or maybe no one will want to train with you. Eventually, you could get a) a "reputation" or b) a "reputation" and no training partners or even worse, a dojo to train at.

Learn from your sempai (your senior students), and ask your Sensei. Read the advice from Sensei (like Jennifer Paige Smith Sensei, Lynn Seiser Sensei and others) that routinely post on Aikiweb. You would also benefit from some reading; pick up Progressive Aikido (Ueshiba Doshu), Aikido and the New Warrior (Strozzi Sensei) or Aikido for Life (Homma Sensei). Get on the mat, and practice until you don't remember anything but the technique, your breathing and proper execution. Leave your issues out by the door. You can be humble without being weak, and you can be assertive without screaming at the top of your lungs.

I can tell you that anyone can win a brawl with whatever tool they use (knife, gun, taser, tac baton, shank, etc.) but to use Aikido in its highest state is a whole different ballgame where you walk away unscathed without even getting into a fight. You live another day, and save your energy for what really matters.

Get on the mat. Practice true Aikido.

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Old 07-22-2007, 11:00 PM   #39
dalen7
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Carlos Rivera wrote: View Post

My advice is that Aikido is not a "rock star" style or a "hey, let me show you what a bad_ss I am." The street is the street, and the dojo is for practice- I can tell you that from experience. If you want to test drive your Aikido on the street, then you are not practicing true Aikido nor true Budo. Maybe you need to check other styles that suit your personality or expectations.

Being a good uke means you provide honest atemi, honest grabs, and not trying to showboat at the expense of whoever is testing- that's really bad martial arts etiquette. By honest, I mean there should be a certain degree of resistance but not to the point where a brawl breaks out. By the same token, you are not expected to fall like a house of cards. But being stubborn like a mule may lead to injury or maybe no one will want to train with you. Eventually, you could get a) a "reputation" or b) a "reputation" and no training partners or even worse, a dojo to train at.
Reading through all the post, as well as the above 2 paragraphs, Im beginning to think that perhaps there is a degree of misunderstanding going on between people participating in this thread. - again, the misunderstanding may be solely on my part.

but...if Im correct, I dont believe that the original poster was implying at all he wanted to show boat. And again, Im only saying that based on how I understood what he said, based on the perspective of my own (short) experience with Aikido.

i.e.
I just came back from a 4 day training camp.
I have bruises, etc., as well as a 2nd kyu that I know has hurt his foot as well as obtained bruises. - I happen to know that the 2nd kyu is trying to make sure of the effectiveness of the technique, and he is bigger and does not want people to have a false sence of belief that they can just toss him. (which is extremely good, and I know, as a smaller guy, I appreciate it. If I had delusions of grandeur I could get hurt worse if something actually truly happened in the street.)

Another example to back up the last sentence.
We did sumo/groundfight at the end for fun. Well I by nature am more for naturally wanting to hit and kick, etc. - but I went and tried (while both of us were on our knees) to apply some aikido techniques that I learned in the past 20 something days. Well the dude was a bit stronger than me and he got the knife from me and that was that. True I could have ended it fast as I had the knife, but I was more concerned - not with just poking the knife at him to claim victory, but to get the feel of iriminage or nikkyo, etc. working. I couldnt get any to work - doesnt mean they arent effective, but it shows me that I still have a ways to go in being fluent in how to make the techniques to work in the right situation. And again, this exercise was meant to use strength...and of course I went away with some marks on my body from some accidents like nail and clothes burn.

Also, the 1st kyus I practiced with from various cities were rough...the guys from my dojo are relatively safe to practice with, and I do appreciate that - there does seem to be a line of pain where you see it is effective vs. receiving bruises left from bad technique.

Point and case, my 4th dan and 3rd dan, when doing an example of taking a knife away (well actually a couple of them were like this...) I felt a quick sense of pain which forced me to drop it.
When I was doing it to someone esle, but making sure it was more the motion and not quick and hard to actually make the knife go - as it hurts, I was told to practice it correctly - this was not told to me harshly, but it was more out of concern to ensure that we would truly know and feel its effectiveness in the event that it actually happens.

So, again, there are levels...those that practice hard and cause 'injuries' because of bad technique...and those that practice more gently but build up so as not to cause injury.

At the end of the day it comes down to you and your uke communicating and understanding each others end goal - as well as the direction form your senseis.

Again, Im quite satisfied with my aikido training thus far.
I sit back and read of all the people saying that aikido is fake or rather is not effective until 100 years after taking lessons (not from here necessarily) and I have to sit back and wonder if its not due to how they are being instructed. - again, nothing wrong with it.

And I do realize the goal of Aikdio is not to go out and hurt someone as my senseis realize this also.

There goal isnt to hurt anyone either...but to ensure that we effectively know what it is we are beign taught.

Fact is, if you were to meet them on the street, they would appear genuinely happy, friendly, confident, and relaxed...just as in the dojo...and I guarantee you that true aikido would be reflected by them, as I doubt a fight would even start. - on the spiritual side of aikido, they tend to project from their attitude - not violence - but peace. And like draws like.

Have you ever watched that people that tend to get into fights or accidents have what eckhart tolle would describe as a similar degree of 'pain body'.

So again, Im trying to clarify, (and I know it depends on the individual), but there seems to be a clear difference in which someone can indeed go about learning aikido through 'feeling' the actual effectiveness of the moves, and at the same time build up the confidence and inner peace inside, which will result in resolving the fight before it happens.

Now, not sure how I did at explaining this, because I know it can be easy to go with one point here and have it taking out of its fuller context...which is what Im not sure I was able to adequately deliver.

But the general gist of this post was my response in saying that I do think that there is a misunderstanding in general happening when people talk of training 'hard'...its not about show boating, but just a difference in mindset, and overall perspective of milieu.

So, to finish up one other thought - at the end of the day, where I am training at - Im sure a shodan, etc. could walk away from a fight without ever needing to fight...but in a hypothetical situation where someone did decide to fight, I am pretty sure that the attacker would effectively be put down, unlike some of the comments that say aikdio is not effective. - One thing I know about Hungarians, when they set there mind to it, they are good at stuff. Check out some of the leading inventors, scientist, sports artist, musicians, etc. and you will see that Hungary has contributed a lot in all areas. - probably because of what I described above...their sense of diving into something fully.

I was reading an english article from Yugoslovia, which held a world event sometime ago for aikido...only 89 people showed up, including guest from other countries - which was a disappointment to them (marketing,) - but they commented that Sensei Imre from Hungary and his 'hungarian' team were the most effective and fluent in the aikido demonstrations they had.

- no, this isnt a plug for hungary - most of you know, i cant even speak the language...well im at the level of a 3 year old...
This is a plug for saying, that Aikido seems to have more potential perhaps than what most realize.

But at the end of the day, its about what you need to take from it.
Not what I feel, or what someone else feels. You are training where you are at, because you are getting something that you want out of it...

Peace

Dalen

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-22-2007 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:49 PM   #40
Tijani1150
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
Reading through all the post, as well as the above 2 paragraphs, Im beginning to think that perhaps there is a degree of misunderstanding going on between people participating in this thread. - again, the misunderstanding may be solely on my part.

but...if Im correct, I dont believe that the original poster was implying at all he wanted to show boat. And again, Im only saying that based on how I understood what he said, based on the perspective of my own (short) experience with Aikido.
not just a misunderstanding, some comments are sarcastic and prvocative and reflect the true nature of the writer but hey I won't let these so called Sensi's drag me to where their egostic selfs would like me at nor will I defend my self or explain what I meant just because some people lack common sense and a degree of intelligence and I rest my case here.

Last edited by Tijani1150 : 07-22-2007 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 07-23-2007, 01:08 AM   #41
dalen7
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Ahmed Altalib wrote: View Post
not just a misunderstanding, some comments are sarcastic and prvocative and reflect the true nature of the writer but hey I won't let these so called Sensi's drag me to where their egostic selfs would like me at nor will I defend my self or explain what I meant just because some people lack common sense and a degree of intelligence and I rest my case here.
Hmmm...I am confused now...as to who you are referring to?
I for sure wasnt trying to be sarcastic...but anyway

peace

dalen

- never mind, I think I understand your post better now.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:40 AM   #42
Amir Krause
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
I sit back and read of all the people saying that aikido is fake or rather is not effective until 100 years after taking lessons (not from here necessarily) and I have to sit back and wonder if its not due to how they are being instructed. - again, nothing wrong with it.
I think you continously misunderstand the point most people here tried to explain:
A technique should be effective - yes, definitly.

But, it is not the job of a beginner Uke to examine the effectives of a technique applied by another beginner. Simply because this would lead to a wrong learning process.
Advanced students acting as Uke may be expected to correct the technique (in one of multiple ways, depending on teacher \ Dojo and sometimes Tori ).
Advanced students acting as Tori should have effective techniques! but the Aikido methodology to get those techniques to be effective is of multiple repetitions in preset situations - Kata. A beginner whom starts to resist normally deviates from the Kata, and thus disrupts his friend the Tori from learning the intended lesson.

You think you are helping Tori in your resistance, letting him correct his technique and find the right way of implementation versus resistance. But in fact, you are hindering his progress, since the Aikido common spirit is to find the path of non-resistance. In that particular instance, the strategy selecting the technique \ variation \ movement which would flow with Uke power and throw him “softly” on his head. Getting Tori into the habit of overpowering Uke, would teach him the wrong lesson, and might make his progress slower.

This does not mean one should not learn within Aikido how to over-come resistance, or how to circumvent it. But those lessons should be given with intent and a directing hand, to a student capable of learning them and knowing the purpose of study.

We do not advocate in-effective techniques in the Dojo I practice. And having Israeli students, the advanced students techniques are often put under test. I do not have a problem with that (an advanced student should overcome the resistance and then ask his Uke to return to practicing the Kata, and as I admitted, I actually enjoy this). The problem is with two beginners going at it without knowing the implications of their actions. The way to hell is full of good intentions.

Amir
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:46 AM   #43
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
I think you continously misunderstand the point most people here tried to explain:
A technique should be effective - yes, definitly.

But, it is not the job of a beginner Uke to examine the effectives of a technique applied by another beginner.
Amir
edited post: for the sake of clarification and brevity.

I was referring to Nage not Uke

Peace

Dalen

Last edited by dalen7 : 07-23-2007 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:54 AM   #44
dalen7
 
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
I
You think you are helping Tori in your resistance, letting him correct his technique and find the right way of implementation versus resistance.
Actually, its my sempai and senseis who resist to show me if its effective - and this I appreciate...
Here in lies our misunderstanding, but now I think we are clear.

Peace, and thanks for your post Amir

Dalen
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:32 AM   #45
Amir Krause
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
Actually, its my sempai and senseis who resist to show me if its effective - and this I appreciate...
Here in lies our misunderstanding, but now I think we are clear.

Peace, and thanks for your post Amir

Dalen
Dalen

Sempai has a different role than a beginner Uke. It is part of his role to teach you, and should thus adjust his behavior in accordance to your actions.

As a Sempai, I do assist my teacher in guiding the beginners. This has many different aspects:
- Making the technique while being Uke, on myself. Guiding tori hands and body via my own movements.
- Resisting when incorrect movement is attempted while going easy on correct actions.
- Flowing with every minor movement, letting Tori be aware of every direction of force he applies.
- Giving clear and concise directions of my own force.
- Making Tori very aware of mistakes and openings (showing them mistakes have consequences and allow a reversal and or atemi).

Giving the right feedback, or the right combination of feedbacks, is an art form by itself. Different people should get different treatment, depending on their previous experiences (also outside the Dojo) and personality. Thus, the difference between beginner and Sempai (veteran) in the limits of legitimate actions as Uke and my critique on Ahmed and your own previous statements.

Amir
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:02 AM   #46
jennifer paige smith
 
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Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Dalen

Sempai has a different role than a beginner Uke. It is part of his role to teach you, and should thus adjust his behavior in accordance to your actions.

As a Sempai, I do assist my teacher in guiding the beginners. This has many different aspects:
- Making the technique while being Uke, on myself. Guiding tori hands and body via my own movements.
- Resisting when incorrect movement is attempted while going easy on correct actions.
- Flowing with every minor movement, letting Tori be aware of every direction of force he applies.
- Giving clear and concise directions of my own force.
- Making Tori very aware of mistakes and openings (showing them mistakes have consequences and allow a reversal and or atemi).

Giving the right feedback, or the right combination of feedbacks, is an art form by itself. Different people should get different treatment, depending on their previous experiences (also outside the Dojo) and personality. Thus, the difference between beginner and Sempai (veteran) in the limits of legitimate actions as Uke and my critique on Ahmed and your own previous statements.

Amir
Very practical and well stated. What is being described by Amir is a developed attitude toward healthy practice as outlined in basic dojo behavior (ASU has a good handbook with this included).

There should be no attitude distinction in the mind of the practicioner between the role uke and nage (in my words). A beginner is a beginner at both. etc. and you don't get points by showing how much your 'outside' knowledge could help out in a test. It is time to clear the mind and to approach practice as a child again. The ego is a fussy old geezer and probably will put up a hell of a fight on this account.(can you hear it?) The masters I have been with are marked by the distinctin of having little ego. They are also, as I have become, aware of the devices the ego uses to maintain itself.
So as I said above, as have others who have traveled the long road, get to learning and leave the criticisms to the teachers. Otherwise, get a broom and clean the temple.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:47 PM   #47
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

"and when cleaning the temple, don't stop to read old newspapers..."

In gassho,

Mark

- Right combination works wonders -
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:21 PM   #48
Ryan Sanford
Dojo: Northwest Aikido
Location: Oregon
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Ahmed Altalib wrote: View Post
not just a misunderstanding, some comments are sarcastic and prvocative and reflect the true nature of the writer but hey I won't let these so called Sensi's drag me to where their egostic selfs would like me at nor will I defend my self or explain what I meant just because some people lack common sense and a degree of intelligence and I rest my case here.
With all due respect, I'm going to ask you to quiet yourself. You've just discredited some of the most developed and well-respected (rightfully so) Aikidoka on this web site. I'm not going to "enter and blend" with your comments, because he just referred to those people (with Mr. Seiser among them, whom I very much respect for his writing) as egotistic, and it's really infuriating. I'm only an 8th kyu for goodness sake, but even I can see how wrong you are. Not only have you just said that you're not going to back up your position, you've said that you won't even listen to them. Please be a little more humble next time, sheesh...

And with that, I'm off to read something by someone who knows what they're talking about.

(edited slightly to seem less angry. o_o)

Last edited by Ryan Sanford : 07-23-2007 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:19 PM   #49
David Paul
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 28
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Wow- a darn good question. Hard to say if there is a right answer to this. Part of me thinks that if nage is executing the technique properly--then it should work right? If it doesn't -then is this stuff real?
BUT--I then also have to agree with someone who said that if uke is resisting said technique-nage (in a randori setting perhaps) could do something different. However if nage is committed to doing a specific technique--like irimi nage (one of my worst techniques) and uke is resisting in a testing situation--nage is kinda screwed. In a real world situation-nage could just punch uke in the face or try something diffrent.

I'd also add that part of the training is the ability to take the ukemi--we learn how to fall to protect ourselves right?

Anyways-a good question-my answer is that there has to be a happy medium in there. As uke it is easy to anticipate a technique and either take the front roll or break fall regardless of the effectiveness of the technique or to resist it. It is much harder to just try and flow with the technique and see where it takes you. I am guilty of both as uke--although in a testing situation--unless the technique was totally awful-I'd go with it. Especially if the person testing was going for 4th or 3rd kyu.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:31 PM   #50
David Paul
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: The bad uke that I am... BUT??

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Letter from my dojo if you trained with me:

Thank you for training with us for this short time.
Sensei Jen
by the way--this is a great response.
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