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Old 11-20-2001, 10:47 AM   #26
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Smile

O-sensi said that if you can master Shionage then thats all you will need. it works for everyody the big stiff guys the small flexable people. shionage works in ushiro waza, swari waza , katae mochi, face punch you name it shionage workes. I think it may be the most effective throw ( my opinion...)

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 11-20-2001, 11:00 AM   #27
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
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I've heard Ueshiba M. quoted the same way for what Aikikai people call Ikkyo, others say Ueshiba only had one technique while holding up tegatana.

Can you give the source of the quote.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolateuke
O-sensi said that if you can master Shionage then thats all you will need. it works for everyody the big stiff guys the small flexable people. shionage works in ushiro waza, swari waza , katae mochi, face punch you name it shionage workes. I think it may be the most effective throw ( my opinion...)

Last edited by PeterR : 11-20-2001 at 12:17 PM.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 11-20-2001, 12:06 PM   #28
Erik
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeterR
Where shihonage fails is not at the end but at the beginning. Unless balance is taken before turning under the arm - it is very easy to counter the technique. Once that balance is taken - it does not matter how you finish the technique.
Yep!

Although, you do have to make sure you don't give it back. Not terribly unusual to have a good beginning, bad middle and a surprise ending.
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Old 11-20-2001, 01:44 PM   #29
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolateuke
O-sensi said that if you can master Shionage then thats all you will need. it works for everyody the big stiff guys the small flexable people. shionage works in ushiro waza, swari waza , katae mochi, face punch you name it shionage workes. I think it may be the most effective throw ( my opinion...)
Have you ever tried shihonage vs. a real punch ? You're funny, but not in a funny way.
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Old 11-20-2001, 07:58 PM   #30
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
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The book "Moving Towards Stillness" mentions of a karate master whom after 7 decades of practice finally comments that he has just understood the outer forearm block. Here we are after several years, or maybe a few more than that, practice commenting as if we know shihonage as it was meant to be. No disrespect, I'm just thinking out loud here.

Anyway, I guess we should not blame the tools here if our shihonage fails. A tool is after all only as good as its handler. Thus, a good technique will fail miserably if used by an unskilled person. Of course the skill intended is subjective and does not represent a generalised mastery level of all your techniques. (you may be bad at shihonage, but you may be a master of ikkyo for example).

Peter... I agree with your comments on balance breaking (although us aikikai ppl do it a bit differently then the yoshinkan ppl, but hey if it works...). And Erik is spot on about the bad middle. I've been to iron out that wrinkle for ages now. I think I just lack basic kaiten practice. I'm top heavy and lose touch of my center everynow and then.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 11-21-2001, 05:32 AM   #31
ian
 
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Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
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quick post:

A friend of mine in the police used shiho-nage at a riot - worked very well. Also Gozo Shioda was very keen on it and used it in real life as well (once on a boxer).

As said before, these doubts are healthy (don't let any one bullshit you). Ask your sensei about it, think about it yourself or change clubs.

Ian
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