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Old 06-23-2007, 06:43 AM   #51
dalen7
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello,

This often happens in Japan, so I wonder where you are and how closely connected is your Dojo Head to Japan.

In Japan, this is one interpretation of the vertical Master-Student relationship. If you have chosen a Master, it makes no sense to go somewhere else, unless that is part of the Master's way of teaching. So this is a consequence of the original choice. My own teacher does not like students going to break-away dojos and so I have never done so.

However, as I stated, this is one interpretation of the Master-Student relationship as it is understood here. Friends and friendships do not really affect core issue. I know very well that some foreigners find this particularly hard to accept.
Nice to see your comment.
It does help to add perspective, as it is and was very easy for me to label the guy as having 'ego' problems. But again, its all about perspective.

But as you pointed out, since we are not from Japan and have a different 'mentality' from the milieu we are raised in - it does seem to raise more issues then if the instructor would leave it be.

As an example...an exclusive right to train at only one dojo?
What of Bruce Lees concept of Jeet Kun Do? and what many people are doing? I for sure will train where I see fit and mix what I feel I need to. Is this pride? No...doesnt mean it will be a success - but what is success? Is it not our own personal journey?

Personally, I probably would go to the friends - but it would depend on a couple of things. How good was this friend...do you feel you could learn enough from him to get you where you want to go?
Or is it better to stay put? Or better yet...just go? I mean, your milieu in America is that of freedom of choice where you go in life.
Im saying this not out of pride...but its something pretty deep in people. Again, at the end of the day, its your choice what you do.

The best to you.

Dalen

- well, read the rest of the thread, so not sure this post is of much use - or relevant.

Peace

Last edited by dalen7 : 06-23-2007 at 06:55 AM.
 
Old 06-23-2007, 10:57 AM   #52
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Good reason or bad, all of that is gossip
But when does talking stop & gossip start ?

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
This is fact - I was there.

A teacher was arrested for something on the club premises. This was something happening inside and outside of the club. The person who has left to start his own thing stood up to say how wrong it was that the senior teachers were still happy to have this person teach especially when the incident involved another student. They asked him to lie about the reason for this persons arrest. He refused. He now finds himself the one out of the club and no one allowed to train with him. Most of the students are blissfully unaware that the first part of what I have said even happened. All they hear is that a certain ex-student is being vindictive.
Juicy!!!!!!!! lol

Seriously though if this is true, "Anon" needs to decide if the friend was in the right or not & then act accordingly. (Tarik If it had been the otherway around, i.e. sour grapes on the Sensei's part, then I would have had no hesitation of saying going with the friend.)

Of course there is another option, perhaps more in the spirit of Aikido. That would be to join a completely different club & association all together (fortunately in the uk there are plenty to choose from). After a little time "Anon" could go back to the old club and train as a guest/non grading student, but also "Anon" wouldn't be bound by Sensei's rules of not training at the friends club. And they all lived happily ever after...........
 
Old 06-23-2007, 01:00 PM   #53
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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to join a completely different club & association all together (fortunately in the uk there are plenty to choose from). After a little time "Anon" could go back to the old club and train as a guest/non grading student, but also "Anon" wouldn't be bound by Sensei's rules of not training at the friends club. And they all lived happily ever after...........
LOL, love the idea but from what they have said then once you've left, if you go and train and the other club then you're not welcome back - it's the same as going and training if you've not left - you're not welcome back either.

Interestingly this ban is association wide according to what was said so no one who is part of this association in any part of the country is allowed to go! Not just people from the one dojo. Talk about a power trip.
 
Old 06-23-2007, 03:27 PM   #54
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

If a teacher really cares about their student they will want them to be where they want to be. Even if you think they are making a mistake you've got to let them go and find out for themselves. Also, as a Sensei if you are confident in what you are doing you don't need to threaten people to get them to stay. Sometimes people need to explore a bit and find what kind of training or teacher they want. The hard thing is situations like the one above are rarely ever black or white. There is most always a gray area.
 
Old 06-25-2007, 09:11 AM   #55
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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David Valadez wrote: View Post
I understand that the notion of "sensei's dojo, sensei's rules" is relevant here. At the same time however, your "sensei" has already tipped his hands regarding his capacity to step outside of himself (i.e. "it's personal"), and, in my opinion, no matter how Japanese he is, no matter what his rank is, no matter what his title is, no matter how many years he's trained for, no matter how spiritual he may seem to be, no matter how powerful and martial his technique appears, his Aikido can only be of a limited (lesser) quality. He may be the best bet in town, the best you've seen, so you may have to add that into your decision-making process, but you certainly shouldn't be thinking like you are at great risk of losing something special, rare, or truly advanced.

For me, a great teacher has no rules about training elsewhere, as he/she requires no rules to keep students true to themselves and to the teachings. Sure, there may have been a time when technical information was a sensitive material, but that time is long gone now. Anyone that clings to that facade now, even for cultural reasons, is merely a person trapped by their ego and/or their attachment to their self-identity. This has to be especially true places that aren't even training daily in the first place. Rules, prohibitions such as these, like all departures from the Tao, if you will, tell you that disease is already present and that your best bet is to move on to healthier ground.

The question then isn't whether you will confront your teacher or whether you should be allowed to train at both places. The question is, "The Way is set before you. Will you walk on its path or will you follow those that have strayed from it? Will you follow the masses and seek your comfort and legitimacy in their numbers or will you seek comfort and legitimacy within yourself? Will you do what is easy or will you do what is right?"

Here's another angle:

Look and see how many students will stay right where they are, how in time the sensei's "rule" will be overlooked and ignored and how training will in time continue much as it always has. Now look at that number (in comparison to those that cannot or will not have training go on as it always has). Now look at the character and spiritual quality of these folks. What do you see? Do you see the strong, the one's capable of great integrity, or do you just see the masses, the way the masses always are - more marked by ease, fear, and convenience than by anything else? Before anyone talks about warriorhood, I think these things should be observed and reflected upon. In my experience, no "warrior" I ever wanted to support me when things turn life and death has ever been found in those masses that are more than willing to have training continue as if nothing happened, as if nothing was revealed.

fwiw,
dmv
This is also my exact position on the issue.

Jennifer Paige Smith
Confluence Aikido Systems
 
Old 06-25-2007, 10:29 AM   #56
tarik
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
But when does talking stop & gossip start ?
It's not a matter of when it starts; aspects of this were gossip from the beginning. Hint: gossip is not automatically pejorative or inappropriate and nothing is 'factual' unless it can be confirmed.

The anonymous forum is here to allow us talk about difficult or uncomfortable situations without being as concerned repercussions; however, when the rest of us who are offering suggestions start drawing conclusions based SOLELY on non-factual information, we are on shaky ground.

That said, offering advice based on proffered information is entirely reasonable. I just tend to err of the side of knowing that we don't really have the full story. Why speculate on aspects of the story for which no information was offered?

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Of course there is another option, perhaps more in the spirit of Aikido. That would be to join a completely different club & association all together
That may indeed be the best 'solution', for reasons not yet considered. However I'd argue that avoiding conflict is hardly in the spirit of Aikido. Aikido, to me, is about learning and practicing conflict resolution, not conflict avoidance.

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
The question then isn't whether you will confront your teacher or whether you should be allowed to train at both places. The question is, "The Way is set before you. Will you walk on its path or will you follow those that have strayed from it? Will you follow the masses and seek your comfort and legitimacy in their numbers or will you seek comfort and legitimacy within yourself? Will you do what is easy or will you do what is right?"
I quite agree with this.

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
 
Old 06-25-2007, 12:51 PM   #57
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
David Valadez wrote: View Post
For me, a great teacher has no rules about training elsewhere, as he/she requires no rules to keep students true to themselves and to the teachings. Sure, there may have been a time when technical information was a sensitive material, but that time is long gone now. Anyone that clings to that facade now, even for cultural reasons, is merely a person trapped by their ego and/or their attachment to their self-identity. This has to be especially true places that aren't even training daily in the first place. Rules, prohibitions such as these, like all departures from the Tao, if you will, tell you that disease is already present and that your best bet is to move on to healthier ground.
Just an add-on to the above:
1. I've heard this analogy used more than once but am not sure if it's standard cliche: a child doesn't know how wonderful his/her own parents are, instead seeing other people/parents as wonderful or novel.
This has to do with motivation for seeking outside influences in the first place. But because of the bias of seeing your own 'parent' teacher as mundane, even if he/she is great, a person may not be getting the most out of every influence, near or far.
2. If a teacher is certain/confident about what they're doing (and seeing themselves accurately), then, "Go out and see other influences" could imply "Go out and see how bad it is everywhere else" or "Explore whether you're really getting what you want/need here with me".
Another possibility is, instead of "See how bad it is out there" is "Go get some perspective". E.g., if I am tired of how persistent my teacher is about which foot goes where and being organized, perhaps by going out and encountering people who have no emphasis on organization, I will come to appreciate what such an emphasis means, what a lack of such an emphasis will get me, etc.
3. Finally, for the teachers themselves I think it's easier to go to sleep at night, so to speak, if they are not attached to possible/imaginary future actions of their students. People who practice for the self-development, virtue, etc. aspects are likely more inclined to really look at what matters in their lives and how they spend their limited amounts of time, energy, and opportunities on this earth.
 
Old 06-25-2007, 05:21 PM   #58
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

I have been watching this unholy mess escalate for some time now.
It is really upsetting watching your friends being treated very badly.
And it has now become equally upsetting being told by someone what you can and cannot do and what you can and cannot think.
I have chosen my path.
 
Old 06-25-2007, 06:42 PM   #59
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Is someone being treated badly here or there? Not sure of the context of this last post. Could you elaborate a bit more - please/thanks.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
 
Old 06-26-2007, 03:35 AM   #60
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Tarik Ghbeish wrote: View Post

However I'd argue that avoiding conflict is hardly in the spirit of Aikido. Aikido, to me, is about learning and practicing conflict resolution, not conflict avoidance.

Regards,
I would say that the opposite is true, How many times in the past has your sensei told you to "get off the line"?. Avoidance is a essential part of the Irimi & Tenken movements, without it you are going to get hit.

Perhaps you should think of this suggestion more in terms of crossing the road to avoid a gang of troublesome youths or maybe in terms of Randori when the uke's are attacking hard, fast & together, often there is no time for techniques & all one can do is get out of the way.
 
Old 06-26-2007, 03:59 AM   #61
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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Interestingly this ban is association wide according to what was said so no one who is part of this association in any part of the country is allowed to go! Not just people from the one dojo. Talk about a power trip.
Ok we know it was a strong disagreement & yes maybe she felt that the banning of the ex student was the right thing to do. But this is serious overkill & is no better than kids in the play ground saying "you can't play with us because you played with so & so & we don't like them". One good thing about this thread is that the head of the association is probably aware of it as well, and may realise that she has gone to far & change the decision about banning the students from training with the ex-student. I think it would be start in gaining back some of the respect lost by the students If she put up her hand and admitted that she went too far.
 
Old 06-26-2007, 06:10 AM   #62
"student 4 or 5"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

I have been a member of the assotion from where the student who stood up for what was right has been banned from.
And yes it is like being back at school with the whole 'you can't be in my gang' thing. Only its like listening to your head master saying it!
 
Old 06-26-2007, 08:28 AM   #63
Hanna B
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
One good thing about this thread is that the head of the association is probably aware of it as well, and may realise that she has gone to far & change the decision about banning the students from training with the ex-student. I think it would be start in gaining back some of the respect lost by the students If she put up her hand and admitted that she went too far.
Or, this thread might make it impossible for her to back out due to loss of face. Seriously... it is not like the more you guys post here, the more likely she is going to change her mind.
 
Old 06-26-2007, 09:03 AM   #64
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Hi folks,

I just wanted to step in at this point to remind people to please keep from using specific information that may undermine the anonymous nature of the threads in the Anonymous forum.

In this thread, for example, please refrain from posting information that may identify the organization, the dojo, or the individual who posted the original thread -- especially if you are an anonymous user. Doing so would compromise the purpose of the anonymous forum -- to allow people who have sensitive issues about aikido to post here without feeling their identity may be revealed. If you wish to discuss specific issues about specific situations, please do so using a registered account outside of the Anonymous forum.

The original "purpose" of the Anonymous forum may be found here.

Thank you.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
 
Old 06-26-2007, 01:06 PM   #65
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
Or, this thread might make it impossible for her to back out due to loss of face. Seriously... it is not like the more you guys post here, the more likely she is going to change her mind.
As the old saying goes:- It's a women's prerogative to change her mind

The loss of face has already been done & the reputation of the association is tarnished; the mere existence of this thread is a testament to that. The danger is that it will only get worse, as more people in the real world find out about it. I sure I'm not the only person who will admit that they would think twice about training with such a group (i.e. if we knew their identity & they continued with this policy of stopping students training at other people dojo's ).

To me it is a much more admirable/courageous quality to admit to making mistake & trying to rectify it, rather than sticking to one's guns because of "lose of face" over such an obviously poor decision. If such a thing happened it would certainly go some way in limiting the damage that has already been caused to the leader's & the association's reputation.
 
Old 06-26-2007, 03:02 PM   #66
James Davis
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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To me it is a much more admirable/courageous quality to admit to making mistake & trying to rectify it, rather than sticking to one's guns because of "lose of face" over such an obviously poor decision.
I agree. People seriously underestimate what a heartfelt apology and some forgiveness can fix.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
 
Old 06-26-2007, 03:29 PM   #67
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Perhaps further posts on this offshoot should go into a new thread.

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
I would say that the opposite is true,
We have a different understanding then.

I think you are mistaking the tactic of avoidance with the overall strategy of conflict resolution. Avoidance is only a single tactic in my aikido.

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
How many times in the past has your sensei told you to "get off the line"?.
Getting off the line is far too unspecific. Change the line, or control the line, or own the line, are more in line with my experience. Sometimes that is accomplished by 'getting off the line', sometimes it is not.

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Avoidance is a essential part of the Irimi & Tenken movements, without it you are going to get hit.
First, avoiding a strike is not avoiding conflict. Second, if you are counting on not getting hit, you're in for a huge surprise if you ever need to apply your learning in real life. It's much more important that any strikes that do connect are doing so in such a way that they cannot do much harm, despite connecting.

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Perhaps you should think of this suggestion more in terms of crossing the road to avoid a gang of troublesome youths or maybe in terms of Randori when the uke's are attacking hard, fast & together, often there is no time for techniques & all one can do is get out of the way.
Again, nope. I think it's just common sense. I learned that in Shotokan Karate. Hell, I think I learned that in grammar school from my teachers!

Crossing the road prevents conflict from starting. That isn't resolving conflict, it's avoiding it. It might be aikido, but it's not something I spend time trying to learn on the mat. After all, I can already do that.

Now, what if that gang of troublesome youths is harassing an innocent, perhaps an innocent that you care about, are you going to cross the road and avoid the conflict?

That isn't in the spirit of my aikido and it resolves nothing.

You see, conflict resolution and conflict avoidance are two different things. IMO, the real aikido lies in conflict resolution. If you avoid resolving conflict, all you do is put off solving the problem, perhaps forever.

To put this on topic; I expect that most people in the situation described will take the avoidance path simply because it is the easiest path rather than because it's the 'right path'. It may be, but I don't know enough to say that it is. I do know, however, from my life experience that avoidance is seldom the problem solving path.

So the initial question each participant has to ask themselves are, "Am I a part of this conflict or not?"

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
 
Old 06-26-2007, 05:14 PM   #68
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
As the old saying goes:- It's a women's prerogative to change her mind
I don't understand why you (or your dojo mate) mentioned her gender in the first place.. and by this, you lost my respect. Smiley or not. I am based in Europe. Still my thought when hearing "she" is "is there any other female heads of orgs in the US than (name omitted). Please tell me. Was this what you wanted me to think, or not?

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
To me it is a much more admirable/courageous quality to admit to making mistake & trying to rectify it, rather than sticking to one's guns because of "lose of face" over such an obviously poor decision.
You expect people to be admirable/courageous? OMG you will be disappointed. You will be disappointed even if you expect people to be admirable/courageous in other situations than under stress, which your dojo-cho obviously is. You belive you can put her under press with this thread and gain something. You are most probably wrong. It may be right or wrong morally but humans avoid being defeated in public, or looking as if they were.

Last edited by Hanna B : 06-26-2007 at 05:25 PM.
 
Old 06-26-2007, 05:20 PM   #69
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote: View Post
I agree. People seriously underestimate what a heartfelt apology and some forgiveness can fix.
So what is the way to get a heartfelt apology and some forgiveness? Is bashing somebody on an internet forum the right way? I very much doubt that.
 
Old 06-27-2007, 12:31 AM   #70
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
I don't understand why you (or your dojo mate) mentioned her gender in the first place.. and by this, you lost my respect. Smiley or not. I am based in Europe. Still my thought when hearing "she" is "is there any other female heads of orgs in the US than (name omitted). Please tell me. Was this what you wanted me to think, or not?
- It seems this person was/is in the U.K. (from what I gathered, not the U.S.)

- I thought the same when they said 'she', as it would seem rather easy (especially given my first point) to deduce who they were referring to.

- but as Jun said, we are not here to point out who it is.
I think it simply slipped. After all in normal conversation we typically say 'he' and 'she' so it can be awkward to always refer to the instructor without saying 'it.'. But who knows, it may have been intentional, not that it helps either way.

You know of interest is how much attention that the user is paying to this.
Here is what I mean. Is there a problem? A real problem?
Then the answer is clear - leave.

Otherwise you are 'feeding' a 'story' and a drama that the 'ego' loves to swim in and get others to 'feed' on.

The fact is that we all perceive things and events from certain perspectives. Non 'right' or 'wrong' - but it is colored by our experience on life and events in life.

Why the instructor did what they did really is not the point.
They may be totally justified from their viewpoint, and unless you walked in their shoe, you may not understand completely.

So the point is simply this. If its causing you unease, and disturbance in your soul...its a clear sign you should leave.
Someone else may not have an issue...and for them it would be right to stay.

Again, the way Im looking at Aikido, it seems this type of 'drama' is what you hope to 'eradicate' as you progress. You learn to defeat the enemy by realizing you dont have an enemy and you 'dance' around them and their energy goes wherever it was intended.
If harm, it will harm them, if for blessing you will be blessed.

Do to others as you would do to them, etc. is the concept of the above, and like draws like. That which we dont like in others, is there something in us that reminds us of this? Often the case with me.

Again, not sure that coming to an anonymous forum without saying right out what the problem is helps. We are making guesses based on limited info and taking sides and opinions on a lady we dont even know. I wouldnt want that to happen to me.

And also, even if we all gave an opinion based on the exact facts, it would still vary. Some would agree with the instructor as you konw to be true, as some are still there now. (regardless of what they know or dont know of the 'story')

If something really bad is happening, it will come out and they to will leave. But now you must deal with yourself first, as it seems you are trying to do.

As of now, if you have these types of feelings, it seems that it is creating an extra negative vibe at the place that is not only not beneficial for those who choose to stay and train, but not good for yourself as you are spending time concentrating on the problem and not your training.

You can try the other guy out, but see what its like.
Will it be a group of 'egos' then 'feeding' on 'we are right' - a new 'story', or will training continue?

Peace to you

Dalen
 
Old 06-27-2007, 03:19 AM   #71
Mark Uttech
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Training at more than one dojo on a regular basis is a normal 'sticky' situation. We human beings can't help but make comparisons, and when we do, we want to always go further and share those comparisons with others. The best way to be with such a situation is already evident in seminar events that are held with an open invitation to other dojos to participate. To develop a regular practice, one needs to make a choice on a regular practice place.

In gassho,

Mark
 
Old 06-27-2007, 03:55 AM   #72
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
I don't understand why you (or your dojo mate) mentioned her gender in the first place.. and by this, you lost my respect. Smiley or not. I am based in Europe. Still my thought when hearing "she" is "is there any other female heads of orgs in the US than (name omitted). Please tell me. Was this what you wanted me to think, or not?

You expect people to be admirable/courageous? OMG you will be disappointed. You will be disappointed even if you expect people to be admirable/courageous in other situations than under stress, which your dojo-cho obviously is. You belive you can put her under press with this thread and gain something. You are most probably wrong. It may be right or wrong morally but humans avoid being defeated in public, or looking as if they were.
Actually I only made reference to a "she", because "Anon Student" did in one of the earlier posts. Let me assure you (& everybody else) I am in no way connected to this situation at all. You may question my motives & why I keep posting, in truth I was just passing by & it serves as a bit of distraction as I have plenty of free time on my hands at the moment. But you are right; I am deliberately putting pressure on the head association to make her change her decision. Why? Because it's obviously such a wrong one. To ban the ex student is one thing, but to impose a ban on students training at different dojo is childish, unfair & just plain ridiculous. Somebody needs to stand up for the students point of view & it seems to me that it is better coming from an anonymous person outside the circle of events who has nothing to lose, rather than an anonymous person inside the events, who may end up receiving reprisals.
 
Old 06-27-2007, 03:59 AM   #73
dalen7
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
To ban the ex student is one thing, but to impose a ban on students training at different dojo is childish, unfair & just plain ridiculous. Somebody needs to stand up for the students point of view & it seems to me that it is better coming from an anonymous person outside the circle of events who has nothing to lose, rather than an anonymous person inside the events, who may end up receiving reprisals.
But if this is so bad, then why bother with it at all?
Why not just walk away from it and wash your hands clean?

As long as people are fine with it, then they have made the choice and that is that really.

Everything else is 'drama' and really not creating a solution.

Peace

Dalen

- yet another pointer.
Suppose I have a club that creates peanut butter and jelly sandwiches - and I insist that all people that put jelly on the sandwich must be banned from my club.

Pretty silly indeed and quite futile to have a club with such absurd rules and bans those who actually are 'right'. But see, what would be the purpose of wanting to stay anyway. (forget the ban) Who would want to stay if their viewpoint is so different? (unless its one ego trying to overpower another ego and inforce their sense of right upon others...upon which oneday they to will be challenged in how they make the sandwich - i.e. you dont use rye bread.)

What you resist persist...what you fight strengthens.
Aikido is about relaxing...internal. The spirit of Aikido is individual which then reaches out to influence its surroundings.
Dont resist the teacher, just leave. Why change someone? You cant.
But you can start your own thing or go elsewhere. As long as you are in someone else realm you are in their center point, and all fighting will be futile...and in service of strengthening the ego, and the sense of identity that we seek.

- one more pointer...
"someone needs to stand up for the students view point?" Is that so?
Why do they need anyone to do anything for them? They have legs to walk away if they dont like it. Again, its free choice...if its truly bad, everyone will leave and then the teacher will get the point that change is needed. This is the clearest I can get.

Well, peace

DAlen

Last edited by dalen7 : 06-27-2007 at 04:13 AM.
 
Old 06-27-2007, 06:51 AM   #74
"anon student"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

This thread was created to find out what people would do in this situation *if* you found yourself in a similar situation and not to persecute the people involved. I mentioned she was not a male simply as suggested because she is in fact female and I wouldn't refer to them as he. As the UK has many Aikido associations it's possible there are others, I have no idea!

I think that the majority of people on here would walk away from the club and that's exactly what I have done. But, the problem is, all of our friends still at the dojo are (at this monent in time) banned from training with us as well so the decision is not just about who to support or join, it goes a lot further than that IMHO - you stay and you can train with all your dojo friends, you leave because of all the bad feeling and wrong doing and you cannot interact on the mat with these friends again. I wonder if we are also banned from going to any other club in this association now. Again, this has not been made clear. What about on courses? What if we organise a course - this was apparently ok when the student left to start his own thing but I'm sure the goal posts have been moved here too.

Maybe a 'wanted' poster will come out with all of our mug shots on !! Warning, if you see any of these faces approaching then batten the hatches and lock up the women and children!

Sorry, couldn't resist but since leaving I feel like a huge weight has been lifted and I can now relax and enjoy my aikido once again.
 
Old 06-27-2007, 11:03 AM   #75
James Davis
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
So what is the way to get a heartfelt apology and some forgiveness?
A. Apologize, and ask to be forgiven.
B. Just forgive them and get on with your life, whether they apologize or not.

When I admit when I'm wrong, I feel better about it. If someone wants to not accept my apology and continue holding a grudge, so be it. At least the attempt was made on my part. Life's too short to stay mad about things you could try to fix instead.
Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
Is bashing somebody on an internet forum the right way?
No.

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
I very much doubt that.
Me too. I think that the reason that so many people have posted here is not necessarily to bash someone, but because someone had a problem and asked for help.
Personally, if I have a problem with someone in particular, I'll generally try to have a quiet word with them about it. How reasonable their reaction is helps me to decide whether I will stay or go.

P.S. You have a great name! I like Bjork's music, and my daughter's name is Hannah.

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