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Old 06-21-2007, 04:35 AM   #26
Charles
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

This one is easy to solve; go train with your friend but don't tell your sensei. And you're not being dishonest you're being private.

If you want, you can post a Question Authority bumper sticker on your car.
 
Old 06-21-2007, 06:53 AM   #27
roadster
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Why is the student starting a club in the first place? Is it because he has a different way of training he can not use in your dojo? Is it scheduling issues?

I wonder why he couldn't just set up shop on certain times and days in your dojo. Many senior students in my dojo teach when the lead Sensei can not, and for us to learn different styles of teaching. (Which I think is a great idea)

I read this once on the forum. Perhaps he should just start a drinking club with an Aikido problem.
 
Old 06-21-2007, 09:31 AM   #28
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Robert John wrote: View Post
Dunno about you, but I train under a teacher in order to get the skill that they have. If that means putting up with their quirks, I'm willing to do so to a certain degree.
Ueshiba had this relationship with Takeda...Takeda was dead serious on putting the beatdown (and more) on Ueshiba for starting his own school, if the stories about what happened at the Asahi Newspaper joint are true.
Certainly Ueshiba put up with a lot of cr"$ from Takeda cuz he desperately wanted Takeda's "Aiki" skillset.

Do you want the skill or not?
If you were training under O-Sensei and he said something of the sort, if its his particular skillset you're seeking, I'd highly doubt you'd simply say, well fine I'll go somewhere else then. (Since the whole reason you came to learn from the teacher in the first place is that he has something that no one else has)

It all boils down to "what do you want" from the person in question

The way I see it there's two issues at hand here.
First a conflict of understanding.

This whole student-teacher relationship doesn't have much room for the "well I'm the customer" mentality some students have outside of Japan.

OTOH, that relationship derives from the fact that the teacher has a skillset that practically no one else has or can teach. (Something I doubt the instructor in question has, but I could be wrong)

Anyways, devoid of that skillset, the student-teacher relationship demands do break down.

Which comes back to the question...maybe that particular instructor isn't worth learning from in the first place
There are a couple of things to consider here. 1) One of the "skill sets" of Aikido is spiritual maturity. Technical skill, from an Aikido perspective, is not only meaningless without spiritual maturity but also impossible. To stay with an instructor that shows spiritual immaturity for the sake of gaining some sort of technical proficiency makes sense only from an extremely limited (and shortsighted) point of view - one not really of Aikido. 2) Part of Budo training is about gaining virtue. The idea of "selling your soul," or doing WHATEVER it takes to learn from someone is contrary to this underlying notion, as there is no virtue in someone that cannot and would not walk away easily from something that was requiring to be paid for by a lack of virtue.

For what it's worth, my experience with Japanese instructors in Japan was way different from what you are implying here. Outside of the Hombu dojo, most training was by my standards considered to be "hobby" training - noted by the fact that most places trained only two or three hours per week. For me, if an instructor can't offer at least three hours a day of training, and he/she starts talking about what Takeda and Ueshiba did, or about some "golden past," all in an effort to stop students from training somewhere else, we aren't looking at anything else but one huge and highly insecure ego. The question isn't then about learning a skill set, the question is whether one is weak and submissive enough in their nature to be the food for someone else's insecurities. That may be put a bit harshly, but if an instructor has his/her student's skill development in mind, he/she is going to also make sure that his students aren't becoming whimpering submissive dogs, people who are willing to do whatever it takes to get something they desire.

dmv

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
 
Old 06-21-2007, 11:37 AM   #29
G DiPierro
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Although spiritual maturity is certainly one of the criteria I evaluate in martial arts teachers, it is not the only or even primary one. I might be inclined to agree that technical skill is impossible without some level of spiritual maturity, but I would not equate the two. The highest levels of spiritual maturity I have found have been outside of martial arts from people with no technical skill at all (at least not in the sense of martial arts).

If I'm training in a martial art, it is to learn the skill that the teacher has. The question of spiritual maturity is only an issue in that some level is required in order for the teacher to be able to teach effectively. Unless a teacher is so skilled that I can't counter anything he does (and I don't think any such teacher exists), then the issue of how the teacher deals with his own weak spots is relevant as that determines how much room to grow the teacher will afford as the students develop.

In terms of restricting training elsewhere, the main issue is context. The only way I can see such a restriction as being acceptable is if the teacher is clear about the restriction as a matter of policy and the restriction is primarily technical rather than personal, meaning that it applies to entire styles (obviously outside of one's own organization) rather than specific people or dojos. Even in that case, I would evaluate the other groups for myself and make my own decision about whether I felt the restriction was warranted.
 
Old 06-21-2007, 01:23 PM   #30
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Well here is my thinking…

I do not mean to equate the two, but Budo, as all the do arts do, requires by definition that the two be simultaneously present. Moreover, in Budo, as in all the do arts do, it is assumed that the simultaneity of the two comes to influence each aspect in such a way that one ends up with something unique enough to stand as different from each aspect when it is not related to the other aspect. That is to say, for example, a technical skill that is not simultaneously exiting with or through a spiritual aspect is not all the same kind of technical skill that simultaneously exists with or through a spiritual aspect.

The fact that we do not see many Budoka operating at this level, or that we see more spiritually mature folks outside of Budo, does not mean that this tenet is not valid. It merely points out the difficulty in achievement, and that Budo has no monopoly on spiritual maturity. Regardless, mushin, a Budo principle, for example, is a state of spiritual maturity, as at its core it is supported by a reconciliation of the ailments of the ego, and it is highly relevant to technical proficiency, particularly within live training environments and/or real-life encounters. To feel or experience a technique that is applied from mushin, vs. one that is not, is to feel or experience a world of difference – where the latter will feel crude, elementary, or even ignorant. For me, any teacher that cannot find a way but through proscription to have enlightened relationships with others, is a teacher that has not reconciled his ego-ailments, is a teacher has not cultivated mushin, is a teacher that can only have “technical skill” under the most pristine (i.e. proscribed) conditions (e.g. kihon waza).

The problem here for most folks, in my opinion, is that kihon waza has become the end-all. As such, the higher states of both technical and spiritual maturity have become either something extra or something not at all that worthy of consideration. As such, it is now possible to speak of “technical skill” outside of things like mushin. This was once ridiculous and should be so again. This is a hugely a matter of settling for less. More than that, this is just plain crazy. Students should instead come to every teacher and first and foremost determine if this person can do this stuff for real – under non-proscribed conditions. Can they have aiki with their kids? With their wife? With their friends? With their students? Can they have it on the street? Within an arrest? Etc. They should be asking, “Are you for real?” or “Are you artificial?”

dmv

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 01:11 AM   #31
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
David Valadez wrote: View Post
There are a couple of things to consider here. 1) One of the "skill sets" of Aikido is spiritual maturity. Technical skill, from an Aikido perspective, is not only meaningless without spiritual maturity but also impossible. To stay with an instructor that shows spiritual immaturity for the sake of gaining some sort of technical proficiency makes sense only from an extremely limited (and shortsighted) point of view - one not really of Aikido. 2) Part of Budo training is about gaining virtue. The idea of "selling your soul," or doing WHATEVER it takes to learn from someone is contrary to this underlying notion, as there is no virtue in someone that cannot and would not walk away easily from something that was requiring to be paid for by a lack of virtue.
<snip>

dmv
I think what you've presented is a much idealized western view of Eastern Martial Arts. The reality is much more simple.

To be honest, by all accounts, Takeda was a dick to most people and probably not very spiritually "refined" by your definition. So why did Ueshiba pay so much money, set up his dojo, maybe even wash his ass? (Im actually serious on that count). Cuz he was desperate to get that skill.
The spiritual component can come as a result of gaining the skill. But its not necessarily the goal. I highly doubt it was the goal that Ueshiba initially set out to do, it just kind of morphed into that aspect.

As far as 2) is concerned.
You need definitely dont know what the mentality was like. You wanted to learn from Takeda you paid up. And if you really wanted him to teach you, you set up his house, fed him, clothed him, washed his ass etc. Not that this kind of relationship doesnt exist anymore... you see something similar in the Sumo Stables these days.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 03:10 AM   #32
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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The reality is much more simple.
The reality is much more simple but not because of what is right, only because of what is common. However, virtue has never been a thing of the masses, of what is common. Nor has it been a thing of the novice. Whatever Ueshiba did when he was younger, and no matter how many folks today are willing to swallow some bitters for the sweets, is no sign of what is right. It is just what is common - as common as a lack of virtue is in the entire world, as common as novices are to the ranks of any endeavor. Serious folks, who are rare by default, look to what is right and aim in that direction. They do not join the masses and see only the "idealized," so they can dismiss it and continue on in common with the hordes of mediocrity. They see what is right, and look at it as an ideal - which is never thought to be a "dirty" word - an ideal which they constantly measure themselves by, all the while looking for greater and greater proximity to it.

As I said, my experience of training in Japan is obviously different from yours. You seem to look at the way training in Japan is today and then look at the way folks train outside of Japan (in the West) and say, "You guys don't understand Japanese martial arts/practice" - because it's not like what you are currently experiencing. I looked at training in the Japan and thought, "Man, have you guys given up a lot," as my experience had already been shaped by training with Japanese Budoka outside of Japan. My comments then, it has to be understood, is not really meant for folks that train in Japan the way I experienced it (which itself may be a totally different experience from yours - for example, perhaps you train somewhere that trains every day, several hours a day, and perhaps every where you look you see the same thing). What I say makes no sense for someone that trains a few hours per week, until they are married, while they are at the university, when work allows, etc. - which is what I experienced but for at the hombu dojos. For that level of training, yeah, sure, take the bitters for the sweet. It's more economical considering the likely cost/reward dynamic. Still, that don't make it right. That only makes it convenient.

For me, it's a dangerous game to look at something that is such an integral part and call it "idealized." Call it rare, call it difficult to achieve, call it even "nearly impossible," but we shouldn't end up talking like knowing nothing of it, or acting like we need nothing of it, makes us the sensible ones.

dmv

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 03:43 AM   #33
Upyu
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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<snip>.

As I said, my experience of training in Japan is obviously different from yours. You seem to look at the way training in Japan is today and then look at the way folks train outside of Japan (in the West) and say, "You guys don't understand Japanese martial arts/practice" - because it's not like what you are currently experiencing.
<snip>
Actually I don't disagree with you on that point at all.
The quality of MA practice in Japan has declined considerably.

What I'm saying is that, even back in the day, no one really joined up because they were shooting for ideals of virtue etc.
They simply wanted what they thought was a top notch skill.
And they wanted it badly enough that they'd put up with a lot of crap to get it.

It really is as simple as that.
When you talk to an 80+ year old guy, you're talking to the end result. Not the training maniac that was obsessed with getting better 40 years prior.

All I can say is, look at Sagawa, look at Takeda (as far as Aiki related linneages go), and you wont find budo virtue etc.
Both of those guys were probably as serious as you can get as far as their training mentality and skill went.
Determination, fortitude, kokoro no ketsui, etc etc. All of that happens as a result of serious practice, nothing more, nothing less.

As an end note...
Anyone that has to train in the "dojo" in order to train is missing the point I think.
But that opens the whole "solo training" aspect which has already been covered so I wont go there.

Last edited by Upyu : 06-22-2007 at 03:47 AM.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 04:15 AM   #34
"anon student"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Just to give you all an update on the meeting last night at the dojo. Well, it wasn't a meeting, the head of the association read out a statement containing a number of errors and left the mat. The students are now angrier and more upset with the whole situation especially as she has tried again to paint a very negative picture of the student who's started his own dojo. The student would have been there himself however he was given a hand delivered letter stating that he is no longer welcome and anyone wishing to support him will have to leave. They did not even have the common decency to explain any of this to him face to face.

The senior instructors are turning everything he does around trying to make him look bad at every opportunity, thankfully enough of us know him and know the real story behind this. One of the things they have said is that he decided to come to the dojo whenever he wanted and was confusing us students because we didn't understand why we couldn't go to his dojo. He had asked to train mainly with one teacher from the old dojo on one night per week, this particular teacher should have been taking another class that week and so he came over that night to train with him however the teacher wasn't there as his brother was very ill so another teacher took the class. He came not knowing this as did all the other students - expecting one teacher to be there but another had stepped in. He was not coming to confuse anyone yet they have tried to turn this around and call him a trouble maker.

To clear some other questions up - we're not in Japan and have no links to anyone in Japan. This is a UK club. His reasons for starting his own club are very genuine and he had no other choice. Yes, his dojo is part of another association however his old one has now effectively banned every club / dojo from training with him and not his one local old club.

This is plain wrong. People will vote with their feet and I think it's starting already.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 04:59 AM   #35
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Yes, his dojo is part of another association however his old one has now effectively banned every club / dojo from training with him and not his one local old club.
This is not very clear care to clarify?
 
Old 06-22-2007, 05:09 AM   #36
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Anon, the situation sounds very familiar in terms of it's effects to one I experienced (must make a "I was expelled from aikido" T-shirt, it seems common enough to sell well) .

My advice to you is simply wait for now as you're not one of the main principles involved and your input, however well expressed or well meaning will not be appreciated by either party. Give it a month or so, let egos and ruffled feathers settle down and review the situation at that point. The only action you need to take as far as I can see is to decide which dojo do you wish to train at.

Use whatever basis feels correct for you, but look at both dojos as dispassionately as you can and evaluate them in terms of
a) what can they can teach me
b) what can I learn from them

Aikido, despite what some people seem to claim, isn't holy orders, so the decision you make doesn't have to be "for life" and after a few years nothing looks the same anyway. You may move next week because of a new job/home and have to find a new dojo or association and this becomes a moot point. So, don't jump into anything guns blazing and remember the main thing, you're there to enjoy and learn aikido - ignore the rest of the bollocks as best you can.

PS Apologies if anything written here comes across at all as condescending advice from an old git who doesn't understand - and you're correct, I can't understand the situation fully as I'm not in it, but I have been through similar rubbish and do remember how high everyones feelings were running at the time.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 06:03 AM   #37
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Any school that treats you like subordinates and not as friends or at least customers worthy of talking to is not a school I would want to train at. The act of reading a statement and not a discourse would be enough to make me leave. Bad talking a friend of mine would be the icing on the cake.

Hopefully this instructor gets a lesson that her students are people and deserve the same respect she thinks she should get.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
 
Old 06-22-2007, 06:11 AM   #38
"anon student"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
This is not very clear care to clarify?
Sure thing - his old association (association xyz) has stated that no one from any club in association xyz is allowed to train with him. His new association is association 123 and presumably the only club or dojo in association 123 this ban exists for is his particular club. In other words, anyone from association xyz can train anywhere in the UK with anyone with the exception of this one dojo or club. Of course, only after asking permission first. And if it's a course then you have to put a list up for others to attend or else you will get royally told off!

Happysod (love the name!) he know's this thread exists and he's happy to be able to see that he's not on his own in thinking this is all so very wrong.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 06:34 AM   #39
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Sure thing - his old association (association xyz) has stated that no one from any club in association xyz is allowed to train with him. His new association is association 123 and presumably the only club or dojo in association 123 this ban exists for is his particular club. In other words, anyone from association xyz can train anywhere in the UK with anyone with the exception of this one dojo or club. Of course, only after asking permission first. And if it's a course then you have to put a list up for others to attend or else you will get royally told off!

Happysod (love the name!) he know's this thread exists and he's happy to be able to see that he's not on his own in thinking this is all so very wrong.
I don't wish to comment much, I'm just curious as to what the circumstances leading to this fall out were. Seeing as we haven't heard much about it and every argument has two sides.

While I sympathise with the guy being ostracised, I've also seen situations where it has been perfectly proper to say that someone should be asked leave and to ask (not order) other people to kindly avoid training with them. These tend to be rare situations often involving someone who was rather unpleasant and/or abusive and/or harbouring conceited delusions of grandeur etc etc

Not saying this is the case, but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
 
Old 06-22-2007, 07:18 AM   #40
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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Mike Haft wrote: View Post
I don't wish to comment much, I'm just curious as to what the circumstances leading to this fall out were.
I really can't expand upon this as it involves others not mentioned here. Suffice to say it was very serious and the teachers have tried to cover this up and bury what happened. I think even this is saying too much but I don't want anyone to think this is a simple disagreement between two people that's simply gotten out of hand.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 07:48 AM   #41
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Anon,

It sounds like you've made up your mind. If the teachers are "trying to cover up" what happened, and you don't like that, then go to the new dojo.

I like Ian's advice though.

While I haven't had to deal with a split in my dojo, in the seven + years I've been training, there have been a few times when my relationships with my instructor or other students have become frustrating or things at the dojo haven't gone the way I'd like them to. (And, of course, my instructor has no obligation to run things the way I'd like. )

It's at those times when I remind myself that detachment can be a good thing -- that I don't have to care so dang much, and I can just show up and train. This restores a healthy perspective and keeps little problems from becoming big problems. It also helps me deal more constructively with problems. With detachment, figuring out how much of a problem is my responsibility, how much is in my control, and how I can deal with it is easier.

Maintaining some detachment does not mean ignoring problems, it just means dealing with them more rationally.

Good luck,

Last edited by jxa127 : 06-22-2007 at 07:52 AM.

----
-Drew Ames
 
Old 06-22-2007, 08:44 AM   #42
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
I really can't expand upon this as it involves others not mentioned here. Suffice to say it was very serious and the teachers have tried to cover this up and bury what happened. I think even this is saying too much but I don't want anyone to think this is a simple disagreement between two people that's simply gotten out of hand
Did this falling out lead him to set up the new club under the other association or did his setting up the new club lead to the falling out ?
 
Old 06-22-2007, 09:27 AM   #43
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
Robert John wrote: View Post
What I'm saying is that, even back in the day, no one really joined up because they were shooting for ideals of virtue etc.
They simply wanted what they thought was a top notch skill.
And they wanted it badly enough that they'd put up with a lot of crap to get it...
Like I said, the very thing I'm suggesting is that we should not take the advice of novices, of folks that haven't yet figured it out, or follow the crowd in what they most often do (a reference to my earliest posts in this thread), or follow folks that will follow convenience and personal ego-based commonalities in their training. Wisdom, and the right course of action then, is never found in such a way. To the point: Anonymous here should very well expect most in his group to just swallow the bitters for the sweet here. Folks will not leave en masse - no matter how up in arms they seem now. Folks, the masses, will do exactly as you said. They will be willing to stay, no matter how far they will have to stray from the tenets of Aikido, virtue, and spiritual maturity. They will all do this for but the littlest of things: rank, recognition, travel times to the dojo, etc., and it will all be masked by contradictions meant to cover up the true straying away from things like integrity, courage, compassion, self-respect, etc. These cover-ups or masks will be things like "instructor loyalty," "dedication to the dojo," "love of the art," "never really all that bothered," etc.

I would agree that there are a lot of things that come as almost a side-effect of training (here I'm talking about decades of training, training that is very intense, and training that is daily) but virtue and/or spiritual maturity is not one of them. These things belong to that part of training that only cultivates things by purposeful or mindful (i.e. directed) training. In other words, if you do not aim for these things, or worse if you build up a practice where you aim more away from them, there's no way you are going to get them. For example, when you use, "instructor loyalty" to cover up your lack of integrity, you are not going to have integrity at the end of that process. You will only have what you always had: a lack of integrity. Virtue does not grow out of thin air - from nothing. Virtue grows from a repeated choosing of the path of virtue over the path of non-virtue.

For me, if one want to just train in techniques, if one feels that things like mushin are not at all related to technical proficiencies, fine. From my point of view, this would be wrong - common but wrong. However, while I can say "fine," I still would want to say that folks should be mindful of how much effort, effort away from training in technique, they put toward only measuring things in such a way that the ignorance of this view can be maintained. For example, and pretty obviously, they work very hard to NOT train in areas where mushin is truly seen for what it is and for why it is. They train solely or mostly in pre-arranged forms training and/or in drills, and they look to measure progress by these things alone. They will also expend a great deal of energy looking away from anything that measures their progress off of the mat, outside of technique - as in the case with the drama going on at Anon's dojo now. Whenever one looks to train in "just technique," one is doing a lot more than that, as one has to go to great effort to make this artificial construct seem reasonable and acceptable. The hard part is this: training can only lead to where most of your energy is placed.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 09:32 AM   #44
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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Did this falling out lead him to set up the new club under the other association or did his setting up the new club lead to the falling out ?
That part is just gossip, isn't it? It doesn't really matter how it happened, just that it did happen (sadly).

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
 
Old 06-22-2007, 12:45 PM   #45
"jeep"
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

Quote:
That part is just gossip, isn't it? It doesn't really matter how it happened, just that it did happen (sadly).
maybe, but then perhaps not

There maybe a very good reason why the Sensei acted like he did for example, hypothically lets say that the Sensei had discovered something about the former student. Maybe he was having an affair with a wife of another student. Sensei may have asked him to stop & he refused. Sensei may have felt that he had no other option but to expel the student, of course he wouldn't be able to tell the class the real reason as it would be unfair on the other student.

Obviously its a sensitive subject & "Anon" can't really go into details & maybe "Anon" doesn't know all the details, but its very difficult for any of us to make a proper call without more facts.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 03:25 PM   #46
senshincenter
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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maybe, but then perhaps not

There maybe a very good reason why the Sensei acted like he did for example, hypothically lets say that the Sensei had discovered something about the former student. Maybe he was having an affair with a wife of another student. Sensei may have asked him to stop & he refused. Sensei may have felt that he had no other option but to expel the student, of course he wouldn't be able to tell the class the real reason as it would be unfair on the other student.

Obviously its a sensitive subject & "Anon" can't really go into details & maybe "Anon" doesn't know all the details, but its very difficult for any of us to make a proper call without more facts.
But then there's still the jump to "and you can't train with him." Outside of communicative diseases, what possibly good reason for this could there be? Hypothetically...?

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
 
Old 06-22-2007, 06:26 PM   #47
tarik
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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maybe, but then perhaps not

There maybe a very good reason why the Sensei acted like he did for example, hypothically lets say that the Sensei had discovered something about the former student. Maybe he was having an affair with a wife of another student. Sensei may have asked him to stop & he refused. Sensei may have felt that he had no other option but to expel the student, of course he wouldn't be able to tell the class the real reason as it would be unfair on the other student.
Good reason or bad, all of that is gossip. Without the individuals directly involved coming forward, it's all idle talk and not able to be factually verified.

Quote:
Obviously its a sensitive subject & "Anon" can't really go into details & maybe "Anon" doesn't know all the details, but its very difficult for any of us to make a proper call without more facts.
The call is simple (perhaps not easy). "Anon" has to choose. We certainly don't. In fact, I am amused by how so many people were compelled to opine what they would do. I see my reflection.

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
 
Old 06-22-2007, 08:04 PM   #48
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

I suppose we all could just say "Well that sucks, good luck!". I try to be helpful when I can.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
 
Old 06-23-2007, 12:14 AM   #49
tarik
 
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

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I suppose we all could just say "Well that sucks, good luck!". I try to be helpful when I can.
So do I.

Regards,

Tarik Ghbeish
MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
 
Old 06-23-2007, 03:08 AM   #50
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Re: dojo head bans students from training with another teacher (ex student)

This is fact - I was there.

A teacher was arrested for something on the club premises. This was something happening inside and outside of the club. The person who has left to start his own thing stood up to say how wrong it was that the senior teachers were still happy to have this person teach especially when the incident involved another student. They asked him to lie about the reason for this persons arrest. He refused. He now finds himself the one out of the club and no one allowed to train with him. Most of the students are blissfully unaware that the first part of what I have said even happened. All they hear is that a certain ex-student is being vindictive.
 

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