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Old 06-21-2007, 08:36 PM   #101
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Re: Aiki and cross training

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
And you know ... I always felt like that was the mantra of aikido, too.
yep. seeing say a bjj armlock and thinking that is the technque is akin to seeing uke do top ukemi and thinking that's the important bit - without realising the cool stuff came much earlier with the ma ai, entering, turning blending, off balancing etc etc.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:33 PM   #102
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
Dojo: Yoshokai; looking into judo
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Re: Aiki and cross training

It's one of those things that I heard about and sort of studied in aikido, but in many ways am really getting into in BJJ. A fresh angle, at least.

Other such ideas would include, for instance, the saying "The enemy does not know how he is killed" -- not being so obvious with "NOW I WILL AMERICANA YOU" or "NOW I'M GOING TO TWIST YOUR ARM INTO SHIHONAGE". Easier said than done. And perhaps also easier to play at in kata practice than really accomplish in live rolling.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:30 PM   #103
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
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Re: Aiki and cross training

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
..... I mean, it's good to understand they're the same anatomical manipulation, and maybe sometimes they even use the same principles...
It's more than "good;" understanding thos things is what allows you to come up with your own stuff! Having a catelogue of techniques in your head is a good start, but IMO, if you don't move past that to the concepts and principles, you haven't moved anywhere.

It goes back to that old saw: If you teach a man to fish, he can feed himself for life. Learning the concepts and principles is learning how to fish. Then you can invent your own stuff, and understand how the stuff you have works.
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Old 06-22-2007, 07:43 AM   #104
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
Dojo: Yoshokai; looking into judo
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Re: Aiki and cross training

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote: View Post
seeing say a bjj armlock and thinking that is the technque is akin to seeing uke do top ukemi and thinking that's the important bit
That's a great analogy. In fact, I think a lot of people early on in their study of aikido have exactly that mindset. We're all focused on "making uke fall down". We're so gleeful about doing some cool movement and watching uke smack the mat that we get a distorted sense of what's important.

It eventually started occurring to me that often the very first movement is the most important. This was a crucial break, I think, from the attitude of "Okay, there's some pivoting and turning, and then some footwork...and then the technique happens!"
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Old 06-22-2007, 08:00 AM   #105
Budd
 
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Re: Aiki and cross training

I think I'm in agreement with what some others are saying when I state that I think one of the best benefits in cross-training is being able to see how people are training the same or similar core body principles (posture, relaxed power, controlling distance, receiving external input, connecting with the other guy, manipulating that connection by moving yourself, etc.) vis a vis another type of practice and how it manifests in the techniques, kata, sparring, etc.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:21 PM   #106
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
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Re: Aiki and cross training

Quote:
Paul Sanderson-Cimino wrote: View Post
.... It eventually started occurring to me that often the very first movement is the most important. This was a crucial break, I think, from the attitude of "Okay, there's some pivoting and turning, and then some footwork...and then the technique happens!"
To each his own. Personally, I'm practicin the pivoting and turning via irimi tenkan exercises every morning because they seem to form the building blocks of the techniques; some are a direct application of them. You can an alphabet of movements, and the techaniques come out of putting them togehter.

How this plays within the larger context of empty hand technaiquwe, I don't know. And after 22 years of training, it will be almost impossible to discern Aikido's influence when I spar. But I'm still looking at how the art is put together and I'll take it from there.
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