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Old 06-02-2007, 09:55 AM   #1
sting0109
Dojo: Kyu Shin Kan, Leicester
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England
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Aiki Jutsu?

Hello everybody,

I'm new here and thought I'd introduce myself first.

I started practicing Aikido about a year and a half ago at Kyu Shin Kan Leicester Aikido, every Friday. I attended a few sessions and enjoyed the experience immensely. Unfortunately, I was having a few difficulties at the time and a nervous breakdown ensured I was effectively cut off from the world, including my Aikido practice, for a period of around 18 months.

Now I've recovered and wish to approach martial arts with increased vigour. Tommorrow, I'm heading down to the Dojo to sign on once again at Kyu Shin Kan and intend to attend Aikido dojos at least four times weekly. I've also been in contact with a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner as I've been advised that developing Chi/Ki is an excellent side study to complement practically any martial art.

However, still not having what I consider to be a full plate, I also wish to study Aiki Jutsu as I believe it would be interesting to compare the differences between Aikido and it's much older base form.

What I wanted to ask is: Does anybody know of any good Aiki Jutsu dojo's in the east midlands? I've had trouble locating one and also, I don't know if there are any good ones. The unfortunate truth in today's world is that there are a lot of dud schools in martial arts that really don't have any benefits to them at all.

Thank you all for your time.

CH.
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:50 AM   #2
A.J. Bryant
Dojo: Denbukan Dojo, Indianapolis
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

You might look into the Dentokan schools. Dentokan Jujutsu/Aikijutsu is essentially Hakko-ryu renamed for various political reasons.

Dentokan/Hakko-ryu is firmly based in Daito-ryu aikijujutsu. The founder condensed the curriculum into what he believed were its essential techniques/principles. The omote waza (shodan-yondan) are drawn directly from Daito-ryu Jujutsu, while the okuden (shihan) and kaiden techniques are based in the Aiki-no-jutsu, Goshin'yo-no-te and other aikijujutsu of Daito-ryu.

Hope this helps.

- Andy Bryant
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:53 AM   #3
jyoung
 
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Dojo: Aikibujutsu Keikokai
Location: Fayetteville, AR
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Carl,

I would highly recommend choosing one dojo and training there rather than attempting to train at 2 different dojos and actually make comparisons. I agree that it would be interesting to understand the different approaches to techniques. However, you would do yourself a better service by training at one of them and gaining a good foundation and general understanding of principles before attempting to make comparisons. I've always been taught and whole-heartedly agree that the actual "techniques" are easy to learn...it's understanding HOW they work and the ideas of body movements behind it that takes time. After you've trained for some time, then the instructor of whatever dojo you choose to start your training should be helpful in helping you to continue with your training and or comparisons.

How can you expect to move the other guy when you can't move yourself?
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:06 PM   #4
sting0109
Dojo: Kyu Shin Kan, Leicester
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Thanks for taking the time to reply with your thoughs guys.

I returned from the dojo a few hours ago. Whew! I'd forgotten how tiring it can be. It was hot and humid here when I got down to the dojo, and after an hour of practicing I really felt it!

Also, I really didn't think I would be so rusty having not practiced for 18 months or so, but it would seem that I was mistaken. So yes, Jeremy, it might be worthwhile sticking with this for awhile until I re-find my feet. There is probably someone at the dojo praciticing Aiki Jutsu anyway as the two are very closely tied.

Thanks A. J. for directing me to the Dentokan web site. I took a look but it would seem the site is currently being updated so I couldn't get a great deal of info from it. Maybe I'll take a look in a month or so and see if I can get anything more from it then. As I said though, I believe Jeremy's advice is sound for the time being so I will probably practice Aikido for a year or so before venturing forth.

Thanks again.

CH.
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:31 PM   #5
wxyzabc
Location: Japan
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Hya Carl

Usually I dont post much and maybe am unqualified to offer advice...however considering your previous problem I would highly recommend a softer form of aikido than Aiki Jutsu. Of course every dojo is different but in my experience aikijutsu is usually just learnig technique with perhaps limited understanding of aiki. For something that can benefit mind and body and considering your location, perhaps the Ki society might be more beneficial. Although I dont practise "ki aikido" soft rules...!!
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:27 PM   #6
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Quote:
Lee Price wrote: View Post
Hya Carl

Usually I dont post much and maybe am unqualified to offer advice...however considering your previous problem I would highly recommend a softer form of aikido than Aiki Jutsu. Of course every dojo is different but in my experience aikijutsu is usually just learnig technique with perhaps limited understanding of aiki. For something that can benefit mind and body and considering your location, perhaps the Ki society might be more beneficial. Although I dont practise "ki aikido" soft rules...!!
The aiki of aiki jujutsu is far...far softer than aikido. It's why it feels so "hard. The highest level of aiki I have seen was not in Aikido. It was in Aikijujutsu and Taiji.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:07 AM   #7
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
The aiki of aiki jujutsu is far...far softer than aikido. It's why it feels so "hard. The highest level of aiki I have seen was not in Aikido. It was in Aikijujutsu and Taiji.
I was recently training with a taiji teacher and five minutes with him was enough to lead me to think that this is what aikido should be and all too often isn't. On the other hand, I've met a couple of aikido teachers who have a bit of the same "feeling"--uprooting or grounding you effortlessly at the very first contact.
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:02 PM   #8
wxyzabc
Location: Japan
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Hya Dan,

Of course it depends on the level of the practioner..at the highest level then naturally aiki will figure in perhaps any of the arts...however how many folks are at that kind of level?...not many ...Ive been to quite a few aiki jujutsu dojos and forced technique or skilled technique was apparent but ki flow etc were perhaps lacking at all levels within the organisation...mmm...of course I could be wrong...but having been on the receiving end of quite a few 6-8th dans I can feel the difference

Kindest regards

Lee
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:32 AM   #9
aikishrine
Dojo: aikido of central new york
Location: syracuse,ny
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Hey there,
I have studied many martial arts over the years, i started with Aikido about 14 years ago and have trained in it ever since, though on and off. I have tried Judo, Karate, Tai Chi, Wing Chun, Chin Na, Arnis(Kali), Brazillian Jiujitsu, Aiki Jutsu, as well as a couple of others. My purpose in all of this was that i thought Aikido was missing something Martial, i was wrong. What i have learned is that all arts have very similar techniques and movement, when allowed to act freely. Yes some arts are harder and more offense oriented than others, but as i tried the other arts i found several places where Aikido techniques fit in perfectly with what the other art was doing. I do not train in any other arts now except for Kali, and even in this art i have found many many instances where Aikido fits in. So my emphasis is on training in Aikido and Kali, I look towards Aikido as my spiritual practice and Kali as my martial oriented practice, i do get the spiritual and martial from both sides though.

I do however believe that all should experiment with other arts for at least a few weeks or so just to get a little idea of where other arts emphasis lie, it is good to find out where they are coming from. IMHO, sincerly Brian
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:29 AM   #10
salim
Location: Greensboro North Carolina
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

The early methodology of Aikido, also known as Aikibudo was combat oriented, designed to kill or cause bodily harm. Ueshiba became profoundly influenced by spiritual leader Onisaburo Deguchi, leader of the neo-Shinto movement of Omoto -kyo in Ayabe, Japan. One of the primary features of Ōmoto-kyō is its emphasis on the attainment of utopia during one's life. This was a great influence on Ueshiba's martial arts philosophy of extending love and compassion, especially to those who seek to harm others. Ueshiba distance himself overtime from the combative nature of Aikibudo and more to religious adequate of Omoto-kyo religion.

The essence of Aikido today is not of martial arts, or combat. Those concepts contradict the teaching of peace and harmony, which were advocated by Ueshiba. Aikdio as taught today is not for fighting, or combat to a greater degree and to a lessor degree self defense. The original Aikibudo (Aikido) was for marital arts or pure self defense. This methodology of combativeness is not taught from the Aikido dojos as we know it today. You will not find very many dojo's that will advocate the Aikibudo methodology as a result. Although there are some, I would not be surprised if they are frowned upon for there advocation of perceived violence and not practicing Aikido according to the Omoto-kyo philosophy.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:31 AM   #11
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Hi Lee,

For me to really understand your post I would need to know what the history is of the "aiki-jutsu" you experienced. There are groups that SAY they do all kinds of things...but when you look under the hood, you find that it ain't quite what it seems.

Having had some small experience in legitimate Daito ryu, I'd say that your post raises some red flags. But hey, to each his or her own.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:34 AM   #12
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

And uh, lumping all Aikido into one category probably isn't very wise either. I've seen very martial aikikai dojo, and even yoshinkan dojo where I would probably prefer not to train (read not quite as much of an edge as I would like). Things vary from place to place, and overall generalizations become quite difficult.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:32 PM   #13
sting0109
Dojo: Kyu Shin Kan, Leicester
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Hiya all,

From my previous experience and the fact that I've now attended two seperate dojo's with different Sensei's (all part of the same club: Kyu Shin Kan Aikido, in Leicester, a UKA club) I can say with iron certainty that the style of Aikido you learn pretty much depends on the Sensei you train with. Even within the same club, the styles can be very different.

The main Sensei at my club is Peter Brown and his style is very much harder than that of the Sensei I trained with yesterday. This probably has something to do with the fact that in 1966 when he started his Aikido training, he was taught by Chiba Sensei, who, I have been told, has a slightly harder style than other practitioners.

At the end of the day, I don't think it matters what style you learn if you don't throw yourself into the whole spirit and philosophy of the art. You can practice all you like; if you never stop to consider what actually happened when you performed sankyo on the mat the other day, your Aikido will never be truly effective. On the other hand, if you do understand the philosophy, you can make it as hard or as soft as you please at will, down to personal preference.

CH.
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:55 AM   #14
wxyzabc
Location: Japan
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Hya Ron

Well I dont want to say too much about specific places....just that in both the UK and Japan perhaps the quality of training and understanding of aiki seems to vary tremendously. My own knowledge is limited but I have seen and felt what goes way beyond the norm..especially in Japan. What I mean to say is that often many "aikido" dojos only concentrate on teaching techniques (of course we need to learn this) but then progression stops there...perhaps many high ranking teachers have been doing the same thing for the last forty years and haven`t progressed so much in their understanding of aiki..perhaps they are limited by their students and what they have to teach..I dont know. My own experience seems to indicate that the Aiki justu guys recognise this and hence do not follow or wish to follow the "do" perhaps only the way of "Waza" which they know and feel cpmfortable with. Only my thoughts and perhaps of no use to anyone else really ; )
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Old 06-06-2007, 06:01 AM   #15
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

CH: You are on the right track - just go for it :-)

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Old 06-21-2007, 06:51 PM   #16
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=454
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:00 AM   #17
wxyzabc
Location: Japan
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Re: Aiki Jutsu?

Hya Ricky

Nice article...

Lee

Last edited by wxyzabc : 06-22-2007 at 12:02 AM.
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