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Old 06-06-2007, 01:47 PM   #1
antonis paps
 
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Talking Surprise!

mm..
Is the element of surprise,
dangerous,?
for an instructor to use in training?
Meaning,
to surprise his uke into..
for instance a powerful breakfall.

Thank you,
Antonis Papas.

Τὰ πάντα ῥεῖ , What Flows, Is.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:23 PM   #2
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
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Re: Surprise!

Depends. Its it controlled or dangerous. Ukes should not anticipate but instructors should not injure by being out of control.
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:10 PM   #3
justin
Location: swansea wales
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Re: Surprise!

as long as the instructor picks a senior student who he knows can take good ukemi then surprise is good for response, i also think it has a lot to do with the personalilty of the student some would appreciate it whilst others might not, a good judgement call is required here.
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:34 PM   #4
MikeLogan
 
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Re: Surprise!

It is the role of the instructor to have a sense of their student's individual aptitudes, and for them to nurture/develop those aptitudes in a manner deemed by the instructor to be within the realm achievable by the student.

If a student is surprised by the outcome, well then yippee-kayay. (of course this assumes a preferable outcome) New knowledge should be a surprise.

michael.

If way to the better there be, it exacts a full look at the worst.

- Thomas Hardy
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:51 PM   #5
Janet Rosen
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Re: Surprise!

When I was 4th and 3rd kyu and starting to learn front breakfalls (as from koshinage), once my body had some familiarity with the landing position, the best breakfalls I had were from senior students or instructor giving me NO CHOICE, just throwing me into them. I was much more prone to mess up, mistime, or land badly with less secure nages "trying to take care of me" and in the process making ME partly jump into the fall.
There are other similar examples in my training that lead me to say that in the hands of a highly competent partner you trust, and who knows your capabilities, suprise is actually a GOOD thing for realizing what you can actually do!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-06-2007, 09:01 PM   #6
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
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Re: Surprise!

Why
do you
always
type like
this?

Or is something screwed up with your type in your browser?
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Old 06-06-2007, 09:37 PM   #7
xuzen
 
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Re: Surprise!

Quote:
Antonis Paps wrote: View Post
mm..
Is the element of surprise,
dangerous,?
for an instructor to use in training?
Meaning,
to surprise his uke into..
for instance a powerful breakfall.

Thank you,
Antonis Papas.
In Kata practice it is a big NO. Simple reason being that we do not want to cause unnecessary injuries.

However, in RAN-DORI, element of surprise is a part and parcel of trying to get the IPPON (winning point)!

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 06-07-2007, 12:35 PM   #8
ramenboy
Dojo: midwest aikido center
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Re: Surprise!

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Why
do you
always
type like
this?
hahahahahahahahahahaha

anyways,

antonis, in answer to your question, maybe. if the instructor is trying to prove a point, like pointing out a good time for atemi, or for an opening to counter if the technique is sloppy. maybe. and if the uke is more experienced. maybe.

but in regular practice, no. in any of the stuff we practice, uke has a roll and nage has a roll. we both know exactly what the technique is gonna be. the instructor tells us. so in the practice, uke works on his ukemi , giving an honest, sincere attack, and nage works on his technique.
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:18 PM   #9
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
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Re: Surprise!

Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote: View Post
In Kata practice it is a big NO. Simple reason being that we do not want to cause unnecessary injuries.

However, in RAN-DORI, element of surprise is a part and parcel of trying to get the IPPON (winning point)!

Boon.
Agreed.

William Hazen
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Old 06-07-2007, 02:22 PM   #10
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
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Re: Surprise!

The instructor is responsible for the safety of his/her students. My teacher does not tell us what technique he is going to demonstrate on us and to what level of intensity it will be applied. He is acutely aware of not only the overall ability of the chosen uke, but what that uke is capable of receiving at that moment. This real connection has meant that NONE of his ukes have ever been injured by his demonstrating a technique on that person.

If teaching is done in this manner, then the level of "surprise" should be managed in a safe and controlled environment.

marc abrams
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Old 06-07-2007, 02:59 PM   #11
antonis paps
 
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Re: Surprise!

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
Why
do you
always
type like
this?

Or is something screwed up with your type in your browser?
nihil
ad
rem

I
like
it.

Τὰ πάντα ῥεῖ , What Flows, Is.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:25 AM   #12
xuzen
 
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Re: Surprise!

Speaking of surprises...

I was doing JIYU-WAZA with a lowly shodan yesterday in aikido class and somehow he came in and clinched (ala bear hug manner). Lowly shodan is a young lad... full of muscle but not so full of experience.

I manage to pull of a unconspicious Kosoto Gake (Small outside hook) and floored lowly sho-dan. He sprained his ankle and had to sit out the remaining class. He was full of surprise because I never telegraph at all what I was going to do next.

Surprises HURTS.. that is why I hate surprises.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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