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Old 06-12-2007, 07:00 AM   #1
roadster
 
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Dead Ouch! My kidney



I think I am getting lazy with my roll falls. Over the past month my kidneys have taken a real beating almost to the point of me going home.

Before anybody asks, I have an appointment already set with my doctor. I don't think I have stones, infection, or bleeding because they only hurt after practice when I move. But they really hurt.

I think I am just impacting right on the kidney area on both full forward rolls and slap stops. I need to distribute my weight evenly along my arms and side because it seems I am only using my arms for aim. Lately I have been the Uke for a few students who are testing soon so I have taken a real beating during my rolls.

Anybody ever have this problem?
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:03 PM   #2
HarlieG
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

I have...and right now I have a student who is killing his hips because of a similar problem.

I don't know that I have a silver bullet answer, but for myself, I went back to basics....really small rolls, practicing them to be very quiet (quiet, to me, means that I am rounding my body and not hitting any one thing too hard), and then building them back to larger rolls and then to 'break falls'.

I had (or have) gained some weight, which I am working to take off...I've removed about 10 lbs of the unwanted stuff, and suddenly my rolls feel a lot better, too (not implying in any way, that this is your problem :~) ).

My student is also trying to 'reformat' his rolls, and he said it is working, but we both could still use some work (as with all things aikido :~) )

HarlieG
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Old 06-12-2007, 01:17 PM   #3
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

could be kidney or could be the skeletal muscles that surround them...either way, STOP and besides checking w/ md, have your instructor really watch and analyze what you are doing. Could be you've got some bad habits developing.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-12-2007, 04:41 PM   #4
Luc X Saroufim
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

suck it up. be a man. no pain, no gain! just kidding.

if it only hurts after class, it might be your technique. take Janet's advice and ask your Sensei if you're doing something wrong.
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:34 AM   #5
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

I have an appointment with my MD today. I go to the dojo 3-4 times a week and it really only seems to hurt most after practice for about a day and then it is just sore.

I don't want to miss any time at the dojo. I work very hard to make it at least three times a week Unless my MD says otherwise, I am going to have the instructor take a good look at my rolls. They feel right to me and I land them just fine I suppose but it can't hurt to have them look at it. Maybe I'll just take light duty for now.

Kinda sucks though. Donovan Waite is comming next weekend. I want to be in good enough shape for the seminar.
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Old 06-13-2007, 04:07 AM   #6
Mark Uttech
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Donovan Waite sensei is someone you really want to get an opinion from about this, and if you do get the opinion, please share it with the rest of us here on aikiweb.

In gassho,

Mark
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Old 06-13-2007, 04:12 AM   #7
Aristeia
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

What Mark said. If you're going to have a problem with ukemi, have it just before a seminar with Donovan Waite imo.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:17 AM   #8
Nafis Zahir
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote: View Post
Donovan Waite sensei is someone you really want to get an opinion from about this, and if you do get the opinion, please share it with the rest of us here on aikiweb.

In gassho,

Mark
I also highly recommend that you get his ukemi DVD's. They would be very beneficial. His ukemi is very easy on the body.

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Old 06-14-2007, 01:40 AM   #9
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Well, the MD found small amounts of blood in my urine. No Ukemi till further notice. I have blood work scheduled for today. I will go from there.

BTW, turns out my doctor practices Judo so he understands my need to keep going to the Dojo. I went today and just pretended to roll. As long as I learn something and break a sweat I guess it's worth going.

I really really hope that if I take it easy till next weekend that I will have the chance to participate in the Donovan Waite seminar. I don't think I would be much good to anybody if I can't ukemi. The thought of me on the sideline really...

I am kind of stuck right now as I can't even demonstrate my ukemi to a senior student, instructor, or even Donovan Waite Sensei for review. I am 90% sure I am doing it right because over the years past, and the four months recent nobody has commented.
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Old 06-14-2007, 03:56 AM   #10
Mark Uttech
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Onegaishimasu. Just like finding the 'safe place' when uke attacks, we also need to find the safe place when unexpected events in life come upon us. The sidelines is not a bad place, it is a place to practice observation practice. You may find it very helpful to talk to Donovan Waite sensei about this without actually doing physical practice. Good luck with everything.

In gassho,

Mark
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:18 AM   #11
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote: View Post
Onegaishimasu. Just like finding the 'safe place' when uke attacks, we also need to find the safe place when unexpected events in life come upon us. The sidelines is not a bad place, it is a place to practice observation practice. You may find it very helpful to talk to Donovan Waite sensei about this without actually doing physical practice. Good luck with everything.

In gassho,

Mark
You're right. Part of not wanting to be on the sidelines is that I want hands on training, and part of it is ego. I should focus on learning, and remaining intact to train again another day.
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:43 AM   #12
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Ellis Armdur's (spelling?) "ukemi from the ground up" has been, for me, a useful aide.

I am pish at ukemi; I have a lot of fear that i am trying to overcome. Fear: 19 stone coming down on my shoulder!

Think forward!


peace and love

Jo
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Old 06-14-2007, 10:32 AM   #13
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Erik, I'm sorry you have a medical problem and that it will put a crimp in your training, but IMMENSELY relieved that you have attended to it so promptly. You will surely enjoy and gain something from the Donovan Waite seminar, whether you can actively roll or just watch and take notes.
Best of luck with what is hopefully a minor problem and please keep us posted.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:57 AM   #14
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Form what I read I dont think its something to worry about, but It was the best decition to go to the doctor. I know there are some athletes/sports that have a normal bening hematuria like for example marathonist, because of the constant up and down. So my guess is your problem is because overtraining and constant hits to the area. But your doctor have the best perspective and opinion.
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:18 AM   #15
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Well, my MD said it was an impact injury. Said all blood work came back fine. It has to be my Ukemi then. I swear they feel fine but I guess I need to have my rolls really looked at. (my other rolls)

I am on light (no rolls) duty for another week or until they stop hurting. I am going to go to the seminar this weekend but only for the Sunday session. I'll let you guys know what Donovan Waite has to say if I get the chance to 1 on 1 him. ( that's a scary thought lol)
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:41 AM   #16
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Quote:
Erik Jacobson wrote: View Post
I'll let you guys know what Donovan Waite has to say if I get the chance to 1 on 1 him. ( that's a scary thought lol)
Actually not scary at all. The one time I was able to attend a seminar w/ him, he was unfailingly patient and kind and tried to give individual attention to each student - he was particularly great with one of the hosting dojo's students from kids' class who was attending.
Be good to your bod - its the only one you have!

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:08 AM   #17
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

I took a week off to heal. My Sensei (Chris Wong) called me up today to see how I was doing. She certainly takes care of her students. (Insert shameless plug for my Dojo AIKIDO of Santa Barbara )

My Sensei dedicated a portion of the class today to proper Ukemi. After examination of a few slow rolls, it was determined that I am not tucking my arm (reaching for the wall behind you) enough. They are not spread apart enough to really distribute my weight evenly from arm down during any type of forward fall.

Although I did land them and recover quickly, doing it in slow motion shows my flaws. As a result, forward and backward rolls impacted more on my side then anywhere else.

Examination of some other class members showed a slight trend to do the same as I in some. Myself being the extreme case. So I am glad that others learned from my mistakes before they hurt themselves. From my days past in the dojo to now, I guess I rushed into things thinking it would all come back to me naturally. The brain is willing but the motor functions didn't quite put two and two together just right. lol.

Thursday's class involves Donovan Waite testing some students for 3rd and 4th kyu. Other than that it will be laid back so I may have the chance to squeeze his brain for some information juice.

Arms aren't just for Ukemi aiming. Lesson learned.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:30 PM   #18
Karen Wolek
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Quote:
Erik Jacobson wrote: View Post
I took a week off to heal. My Sensei (Chris Wong) called me up today to see how I was doing. She certainly takes care of her students. (Insert shameless plug for my Dojo AIKIDO of Santa Barbara )
Your sensei is really great; I have gotten to train with her and hang out with her on several occasions. She is really fun and watched out for me last year when I had a broken toe and we all walked FOREVER to dinner after a seminar in NYC. Tell her Karen from Kingston/Woodstock says hi?

Anyway, I'm glad you seem to have found the reason for your injury. My issue with forward rolls was my left shoulder, but with a lot of practice and help from my sensei, I have really nice rolls now. Or so they say!

Now to get my breakfalls to look so nice.....

Karen
"Try not. Do...or do not. There is no try." - Master Yoda
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Old 06-24-2007, 08:37 PM   #19
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Chris remembered you and the walk from hell right away Karen. She says hello.

The seminar was awesome! I met a lot of people from other states as well as some people from other counties that came.

I did however screw up my kidney again. Most of the seminar I was without Ukemi which I had to inform each Nage one at a time. Next thing I know, Donovan comes in before I can let him know, bam! I landed it right but for some reason I am back to square one. And to top that off, I think I may have sprained my wrist as well. I suck at being uke.

Hakama and sweat were flying. Feet were stinking. Nothing like a good old fasioned seminar. Only one student got a head kick. Only a few more smacked knees and heels.

Got an deserved ear full from my Sensei too. (no yelling involved)

All in all, I need to get back to the doctor. I don't think that this is normal. My MD told me I can ukemi after the pain goes away and as of this morning it was gone. One forward roll and I am back to square one times 10. I could hardly move after the seminar. I had to call it quits two hous in and ended up taking pictures the last hour.

Donovan Waite is a great teacher. He really understands the different thought patterns when someone is doing something wrong and as such knows how to easily explain it.

I am going to go back to my doctor on Monday for some internal scans. This just isn't right. I can't just walk this off. I'll keep the forum informed so nobody makes the same mistakes I did.

Last edited by roadster : 06-24-2007 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:08 AM   #20
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Erik, you'll be in my thoughts. May this be just a small temporary glitch in your training and in your overall good health.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:18 AM   #21
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

I thought I had it bad with my one sided ukemi!

I really hope that your ukemi is bad and that it is not your internal organs!

Ganbatte dude.

Peace and love

Jo
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:16 PM   #22
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Thank you all for your warm regards and positive thoughts. AIKIDO is truely a community based way of life.

Well the doctor said that all of the lab work was fine. He thinks that I either have kidney stones that have not passed yet and rolling on them is causing the pain or that I just made an impact injury worse.

He said NO rolls for six weeks and if I do a few rolls and have the same problem after that then he will do a CAT scan.

He did suggest some hardcore Yoga to keep myself in the game. Fine by me. We already use Yoga during warm up so this will give me a chance to really focus on my breathing.

I'm going to limp to bed now.
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:11 PM   #23
Karen Wolek
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

Quote:
Erik Jacobson wrote: View Post
Chris remembered you and the walk from hell right away Karen. She says hello.

.
Thanks for saying hi for me, Erik.

I'm sorry you are still in pain. I sure hope you find what is causing it.

Karen
"Try not. Do...or do not. There is no try." - Master Yoda
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:03 PM   #24
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Smile Re: Ouch! My kidney

Erik,

I've been there before. I had 4 seperate rounds of kidney stones over a 5 year period and they're no fun. The first set was the worse and my MD gave me the same advice: avoid stuff that makes them want to pass such as excercise. I followed his sage advice for 4 weeks and the stones remained, the blood remained and the pain remained. At my recheck I asked, "what would happen if I did exercise?" and he said, "Well, the stones would be more like to pass and cause pain and blood." Well as they say, no pain, no gain. So the next day I ran 5 miles and went back to ukemi. Peed blood for a day and passed the stone. Pain gone. Good luck with yours.

Derek Duval
Yondan
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Old 06-26-2007, 08:07 PM   #25
roadster
 
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Re: Ouch! My kidney

My MD kind of blew me off when I saw him. He really didn't want to do anything at all.

The past two days have been hell. It has taken me thirty minutes to get out of bed. Driving, walking, and any other movement has been like hot pokers on my side. I had kidney stones before, and as you know that kind of pain is dull and constent. THis is movement related so it may very well be a stone that has yet to get lodged in the track.

Either way, no matter what my doctor says if the pain does not subside by the end of the week I am asking for a CT scan to determine the real problem and find a real sollution. IF I stay on this teack, it doesn't matter if I wait six weeks or six months the problem will still return when I start rolling again.

This thread has gone on and on about my stupid kidney pain. It really upsets me that when I really push and make the time to go three to four times a week and really get into my training this problem shows up to slow me down. Could be a good thing. Could be a way for my body to tell me that I am pushing too hard but I don't think so.

Derek, I wish I could just push forward and it would solve itself. But this is a bit much. Like I said above, one roll and it was back to square one times ten.

Thanks again everyone for your kind words and advice. I am going to take a week off Aikido and try the Yoga course my dojo offers so that I am not completly on the sidelines.

I so badly want this crap solved so that I can get back on track.
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