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Old 12-13-2004, 02:11 PM   #1
Michael Neal
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If you could make one change in Aikido

If you could make one change in Aikido, what would it be? Of course this question will not to apply to anyone who thinks Aikido needs no change at all in any area.
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Old 12-13-2004, 02:32 PM   #2
Greg Jennings
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

I have control of my own, personal, aikido and, strictly within that context, I do as I please. So, no changes.

Best,

Greg Jennings
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:22 PM   #3
disabledaccount
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

More emphasis on atemi waza. I'd like to see thorough pressure point/cavity press information, not just "Okay, here's Yonkyo". I'd also like to see makiwara and tameshiwara taught at your average dojo. I was reading an interview of Mark Murishige Sensei where he said that they used to have makiwara in the garden at Hombu dojo, and that all of the uchideshi were required to train thier atemi waza on them every day. I'd like to see a return to this standard. As it is, I must train these things on my own.
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Old 12-13-2004, 03:38 PM   #4
bob_stra
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
If you could make one change in Aikido, what would it be? Of course this question will not to apply to anyone who thinks Aikido needs no change at all in any area.

Just one?

In so much that it reflects my personal biases -

I would make cross training once a week / fortnight / month mandatory.

Preferably in judo :-) Or bare knuckle boxing.

Go the aikiOrcs !!

Last edited by bob_stra : 12-13-2004 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 12-13-2004, 06:13 PM   #5
saltlakeaiki
 
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

I realize this may be a bit controversial... but in the best of all possible worlds I'd like to have a more objective (empirical?) way of ... how to put this ... determining the pecking order. Straightforwardly, you can read that as "determining rank promotion". But it also extends to "being able to really know whether a given application of technique in a given situation actually works or not." I hope I worded that carefully enough. I have no desire to start a flame war.

But let's face it, the way most of us practice most of the time requires the cooperation of uke. This isn't a controversial statement, is it? We don't have anything like true competition, and I wouldn't change that. I'm 100% behind the Founder's proscription of it. But you gotta admit, it does make it hard sometimes to know how "real" we're being.

So all I'm saying is: I wish there were a way to be able to judge more objectively.

Dave

If it wasn't for the goat, you couldn't get in here for propaganda!
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Old 12-13-2004, 06:35 PM   #6
David Humm
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

I'd get rid of all the self promoted "shihan" "soke" "8th, 9th 10th dan" nob-jocky we have floating around discrediting Aiki as a whole.

I may well be narrow minded (and I make no apologies for that) however, when it comes to credibility, I don't see a "live and let live" philosophy. You are what you earn. Simple as that in my book.

Christmas Quiz

Guess how many 8th dans we have in the UK.
Guess how many of those are from independant Org.
Guess how many of those came from Japanese sources.

Answers on a post card

Dave
PS... Mental Note: Don't post whilst drunk !

Last edited by David Humm : 12-13-2004 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 12-13-2004, 06:36 PM   #7
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Last September I participated in the IAF congress seminar in Tokyo. At the end the various member coutries all did demos. What was clear to me was that the demos from Japan (2 off) were simple, straight, normal, plain as can be, ordinary, yet solid, Aikido - just what you expect. Many of the demos from other countries seemed to have some kind of personal slant - really soft, really hard, obviously mixed with Jujutsu or some variiant, obviously mixed with Tai Chi, and so on. There were a few 'straight Aikido' demos, whatever straight may be ... but I was surprised at the extent of the differences and could only wonder what the Japanese thought about it all. Of course, there are several slants within Japan too, but no to the extent outside, so it seems.

Accordingly, I don't think there are any rules to change. It would be good if all could diverge on a common point though, but I doubt that is possible.

PS I'll define straight as what the Doshu does - anyone who has attended a seminar of his will know that he just does textbook-solid stuff without windy explanations. From my point of view, no slant whatsoever, and I like it.

PPS And before the demos, somebody asked what they should do. The reply was, "Show what you normally do/teach in your home country..."

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 12-13-2004 at 06:40 PM.

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Old 12-13-2004, 08:17 PM   #8
aikidoc
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

"I'd get rid of all the self promoted "shihan" "soke" "8th, 9th 10th dan" nob-jocky we have floating around discrediting Aiki as a whole."

Dave-I'd agree with you on that one and lower it down to self promoted 6th dans and add in the professor and doctor titles as well that are floating around. Plus I'd add in the ridiculous claims some of these guys are making on websites about their skills (like cutting paper with energy only).

Makes us all look like crack pots.
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Old 12-13-2004, 09:05 PM   #9
Michael Neal
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

I posed the same question about Judo on Judoinfo.com in case anyone is interested.

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3408
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Old 12-13-2004, 09:11 PM   #10
Michael Neal
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

I think it is interesting that practitioners of both Judo and Aikido seem to want more atemi waza training incorporated into practice.
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Old 12-13-2004, 09:30 PM   #11
Rocky Izumi
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
"I'd get rid of all the self promoted "shihan" "soke" "8th, 9th 10th dan" nob-jocky we have floating around discrediting Aiki as a whole."

Dave-I'd agree with you on that one and lower it down to self promoted 6th dans and add in the professor and doctor titles as well that are floating around. Plus I'd add in the ridiculous claims some of these guys are making on websites about their skills (like cutting paper with energy only).

Makes us all look like crack pots.
I can cut wind with only my internal energy, though lactose-based input also helps as does any sort of carb. I could even exaggerate and say can even crack pots with my internal energy, it is so strong.

Rock
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:31 AM   #12
Charles Hill
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
David Iannucci wrote:
I wish there were a way to be able to judge more objectively.
Hi Dave,

Any ideas as how to do this? In my personal opinion, the kind of thing you are talking about can happen when two people develop a solid personal relationship in the context of training and slowly, step by step, start to "go for it." But this of course is not objective.
Charles
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:29 AM   #13
disabledaccount
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
I think it is interesting that practitioners of both Judo and Aikido seem to want more atemi waza training incorporated into practice.
I'm surprised more people haven't jumped on this bandwagon. After all, didn't O'Sensei say "Aikido is 90% atemi"? I'm lightly hitting uke all the time when he/she makes an error with the ukemi. There's usually a huge opening in that case. I get hit quite a bit as well while taking ukemi for my Sensei.

On the otther hand it dosen't seem to be a very big part of the focus for Aikido as a whole these days. I'm amazed at the number of people I've met who don't even know Aikido has atemi-waza, or even more disappointing, can't throw a punch.
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Old 12-14-2004, 02:35 AM   #14
batemanb
 
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
I have control of my own, personal, aikido and, strictly within that context, I do as I please. So, no changes.

Best,

Ditto.


Reading the posts here, save dealing with the "nob jockey's" (nice description Dave ), all changes are easily implementable by those who want them, those that don't can choose to ignore and implement their own changes.

If you are talking about making a unilateral change that will affect all Aikido, then I agree with what Rupert said about Doshu, good straight Aikido. I'd like everyone to follow the way that he does it and all come back under one roof.

What are the chances?


exactly, therefore I stand by my agreement with Greg .

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 12-14-2004, 03:17 AM   #15
ruthmc
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

I'd get rid of the "my style / sensei / club is better than yours" nonsense that still permeates far too many people's thinking. Just train. If you're good, students will learn good Aikido from you. No need to scream about it, start flame wars, or post offensive comments about other styles / people.

Ruth
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Old 12-14-2004, 03:40 AM   #16
happysod
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

either

1. A strange virus infects every hakama in the world and they all fall to pieces so I never have to wear the damn things ever ever again
2. Everyone else leaves aikido and by default I become de-facto soka-doshu-generalissimo pope the third of aikido with full titles to all their real-estate and develop the true (tm) aikido that only I posess

I'm kinda torn
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Old 12-14-2004, 03:59 AM   #17
p00kiethebear
 
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Get rid of all politics.

Of course this is what i would change about a lot of things these days.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 12-14-2004, 05:37 AM   #18
Yann Golanski
 
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Ian, are you joining the Shodothugs in their "We don't need no hakama" war cries? I am shocked!!! No really I am!

As to all of you who want more atemi, please come to a Shodokan dojo and ask to be shown the atemi waza. There are some clips on the JAA web pages you can look at but they are small and not of great quality.

The only thing I would like to change is the ability to make a living teaching or just doing Aikido.

The people who understand, understand prefectly.
yann@york-aikido.org York Shodokan Aikido
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Old 12-14-2004, 07:50 AM   #19
happysod
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Yann, huh, I was complaining about hakamas on aikiweb long before I denounced the evil that was shodothuggery - (namby pamby damn nuisancy toe breaking things, only use they've ever been is to your opponent as an extra bit to grab)
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Old 12-14-2004, 10:17 AM   #20
Michael Neal
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

In think the hakama is the one most important reason I have not taken Aikido up again, I like practicing in pajamas alone.
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:14 PM   #21
Rocky Izumi
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
In think the hakama is the one most important reason I have not taken Aikido up again, I like practicing in pajamas alone.
More fun in the nude.

Rock
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:31 PM   #22
John Boswell
 
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
Sensei Riggs said: "Plus I'd add in the ridiculous claims some of these guys are making on websites about their skills (like cutting paper with energy only)."
...but I CAN cut paper with energy only! I extend my Ki and ONLY my Ki to influence the siccors which cuts the paper.

How do YOU do it? I'll bet you can't cut paper at all! Pshh!

*snickers*

Did I mention my 10th Dan ranking in Vaccum Ryu? or Slapda Ho Ryu?

No?


Last edited by John Boswell : 12-14-2004 at 04:33 PM.

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Old 12-14-2004, 04:32 PM   #23
Michael Neal
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
More fun in the nude.

Rock
Thta would be one scary Aikido class, unless it was all women of course
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Old 12-14-2004, 04:36 PM   #24
John Boswell
 
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Where do I sign up?

er... to um... help teach that is. Or... or... I could like, take ukemi !! Yeah! I'll do that.

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Old 12-14-2004, 04:41 PM   #25
Rocky Izumi
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Re: If you could make one change in Aikido

Okay guys, imagine taking a real fast ikkyo ura that gets you sliding along the mat rather than flopping down. Or a suwariwaza ikkyo ura. Hee hee hee.

Rock
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