Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Weapons

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-11-2007, 04:02 AM   #1
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Aiki-jo Awasei

Hope I've spelt that right.

Was looking here:

http://www.aikiweb.com/weapons/31jo1.html

And found the partnered version of the 31 jo (meaning descriptions of what your opponent(s) do while you do the kata. I've heard this called bunkai in iaido so I'm not totally sure of the appropriate term.

Has anyone got the same for Saito's 13 jo kata?

How about any other aiki-jo kata such as Tohei's 22 etc? I know there are lots of aikijo kata around and that Saito's are the most well known but I've found that often they are taught without the actions of the opponent being talked about (much). I know from my non-aikido weapons training that the actions of your opponent -either real or imagined - are very important.

Any one with any more info on this?

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2007, 04:38 AM   #2
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 550
Sweden
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

There is a difference between awase-forms and kumi-forms. The partnered version of the 31 Kata is usally called 31 Kumijo.
There is according to most senior Iwama-style teachers that I have trained for no kumi-form for the 13 kata, there is hovewer an awase-form.

In the awase form, the 13 kata is more or less done as normal and the "uke" moves around so that all the techniques in the kata are defenses against tsuki.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2007, 05:49 AM   #3
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
There is a difference between awase-forms and kumi-forms. The partnered version of the 31 Kata is usally called 31 Kumijo.
There is according to most senior Iwama-style teachers that I have trained for no kumi-form for the 13 kata, there is hovewer an awase-form.

In the awase form, the 13 kata is more or less done as normal and the "uke" moves around so that all the techniques in the kata are defenses against tsuki.
Cool, so you you might say that 31 kumi-jo is a collection of movements that fit the 31 jo kata. But the awase-jo is just a partner tsuki-ing whenever possible.

I assume there are kumi-jo for the 20 jo suburi too?

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2007, 06:05 AM   #4
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,910
Spain
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
I assume there are kumi-jo for the 20 jo suburi too?
I've never seen it.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2007, 06:25 AM   #5
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 550
Sweden
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
Cool, so you you might say that 31 kumi-jo is a collection of movements that fit the 31 jo kata. But the awase-jo is just a partner tsuki-ing whenever possible.
Not really whenever possible, but tsuki-ing so that every movement in the 13 kata gets a purpose and an opportunity for partnerpractice.

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
I assume there are kumi-jo for the 20 jo suburi too?
Not really. There are 10 kumijo forms that contains more or less all of the movements in the kumijo. I think that the suburi were taken from the 31-kata and others (the 13 is for instance just a part of a longer kata) that M.Saito sensei learnt from O sensei.
Then it appears that M.Saito created the 7 kumijo as a way to practice the jo movements. Since they were under development during a long time there are several versions of at least the first seven. Then M.Saito created the last 3 for the demo after he got his 9 dan if I remember it correctly.

There is however a plethora of shorter jo-awase exercises as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2007, 09:22 AM   #6
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

Cool, anyone got any info on the other aikijo kata. Tohei's 22 for example? (I've never seen anything for the 22 but it could be out there).

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2007, 12:51 PM   #7
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

I found these clips on the web. They show Hiroaki Kobayahsi Sensei performing the 13, 22 and 31 jo kata, first solo then with a partner (awase / kumijo).
Interestingly, the paired 13 practice has both uchijo and ukejo performing the same kata, with uchijo just one step ahead.
The other paired practices have uchijo performing different movements while ukejo performs the kata.
13 jo kata clip
31 Jo kata clip
22 jo kata clip

Enjoy!

Cito

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2007, 05:41 AM   #8
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

Quote:
Cito Maramba wrote: View Post
Very interesting Cito thanks Not quite the same partnered versions I've seen but really interesting nonetheless.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2007, 12:47 PM   #9
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 803
Thailand
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

I have the CD of Saito sensei doing the awase, but it is interesting to note that the attacks of Uke are not continuous throughout the entire Kata. Saito sensei divides the Kata in several segments which do not seem to be related.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2007, 04:04 PM   #10
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
Location: Stockholm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 550
Sweden
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

Hiroakis solo 13 count kata also differs from the version that I´m familiar with. He does 2 movements in movement nr 2 (first sliding back to block and then stepping forward for a strike, almost like "tsuki jodan gaeshi" ) instead of just one (entering and striking directly), almost making it a 14 count kata.

The version I´m familiar with looks alot more like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S4GF...elated&search=
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2007, 03:12 PM   #11
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Aiki-jo Awasei

Another clip of sanjuichi no kata (31 kata), this time demonstrated by Kouich Tanaka Sensei. Tanaka Sensei is a student of Shoji Nishio Shihan.

Last edited by CitoMaramba : 05-13-2007 at 03:14 PM.

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bokken and Jo questions seank Weapons 19 01-13-2010 09:06 AM
Bokken and jo set from Aikiwood Jennifer Yabut Weapons 13 11-07-2009 12:46 PM
Systema Seminar with Vladimir Vasiliev, Part 1 aikibaka131 Seminars 2 07-22-2003 12:45 PM
Video/DVD: New Aiki Ken and Aiki Jo DVD AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 07-10-2003 08:56 AM
weapons training Jappzz Weapons 11 03-12-2001 12:51 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:10 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate