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Old 09-07-2007, 11:02 AM   #126
wildaikido
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Sorry, but I can't resist...

I noticed he didn't go to the floor to grapple

Regards,

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:12 AM   #127
PeterR
 
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Graham Wild wrote: View Post
Sorry, but I can't resist...

I noticed he didn't go to the floor to grapple

Regards,
Would you - so many angry people.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:17 AM   #128
wildaikido
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Would you - so many angry people.
NEVER!



I shouldn't type this but my poor sense of humour is making me...



Lets see a BJJer deal with em



I am soooo sorry, please understand I am weak willed

Last edited by wildaikido : 09-07-2007 at 11:19 AM.

Graham Wild
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:14 PM   #129
mjchip
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Without a doubt some of the BEST randori footage I've ever seen!

Mark
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:35 PM   #130
Aikibu
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

"In Aikido The fight is over at the moment of contact."

Shoji Nishio Shihan



William Hazen

I'll bet that dude knows what Randori means. LOL
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:52 PM   #131
Dan Austin
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Jeff Davidson wrote: View Post
This is the vid that Ledyard sensei was referring to.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=V4DJQjYX_as

We talked to him about this idea of "entering" even when backing up in our podcast. This was one of the examples he was talking about. Very interesting stuff.

http://www.usaikido.com

Jeff D.
LOL. This is *exactly* what I was getting at, and the idea that this clip supports Aikido is incredibly funny. Anyone who wants to claim this on behalf of Aikido has been swilling the KoolAid far too long. Logic along the lines of "this is aiki, Aikido is about aiki, and I do Aikido...therefore I can do this!" is just delusional. This is boxing, not Aikido. Aikido training is about as far removed from boxing as possible. Training ikkyos and whatnot against meaningless attacks in no way prepares you to do this, training in boxing gives you this skill, hence my prior recommendation to train with a boxing coach. If you get grappled, wrestling will effectively teach you to counter any attempts to grapple you. If you do wind up on the ground, submissions training will allow you to defend yourself and get back on your feet. In other words MMA is the body of modern effective fighting technique and training methods that develops real skill, the only thing Aikido brings to the table is the defensive mindset - which doesn't require any ongoing training in an Aikido school to do.

Ueshiba's revelation was not to resist, contend, and outcompete, but to take the openings presented by being attacked. He who attacks opens himself to be countered in doing so, and should be shown the error of breaking harmony with the universe as it were. In theory. This is also a sound legal basis for self-defense, and is commendable. However the important thing to note is that Ueshiba traveled Japan and became an accomplished martial artist prior to reaching a more mature and meaningful understanding of martial art. Emulating him today would entail doing the same, which means embracing MMA as the gold standard syllabus of realistic unarmed technique and training method. The standard Aikido syllabus today is practically worthless in addressing modern hand to hand fighting. The title of this thread is apt - aiki-boxing is what Aikido should be, but isn't. You can't have an art whose execution depends 90% on atemi, spend 0% of your time training realistic atemi, and expect a good result. Unless you spend 90% of your training time boxing, the 90% atemi just isn't going to happen for you.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:08 PM   #132
Bob King
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Thanks to all who have continued to watch and comment on our practice sessions. Especially those who bothered to watch the whole thing! And the comment about "putting your video where your ideas are" is a comment I very much agree with, please do take the time to show Jeff and I how to implement your suggestions by taking some time to put some tape down and post it on the Tube. I look forward to seeing someone else try this.

What I continually realize is how much more I can learn to make my martial arts better and more effective. I do a lot of training others in crisis intervention where atemi is not allowed (legal), where all you can do is take shots until you have an opportunity to try and control someone with minimal force or damage. So I try to use the aiki-boxing as an opportunity to test my reactions in this setting so I can help others protect themselves. The elbow cover was a suggestion from Kevin Blok sensei of Chudokai (Yoshinkai), and that was the reason we were using it much more in this session. I've also worked that block often in my BJJ/combative JJ training with the Chitwood Brothers here in Mansfield. As to why we don't grapple is because we are specifically training in stand up work, not ground techniques.

Thanks again to all for their comments and suggestions, keep 'em coming and we'll keep posting video!
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:32 PM   #133
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Dan Austin basically beat me to it.

How much do you people know about the guy in the video? What is his experience and what did he train in? I just don't get why people are claiming him as their poster aiki boy, listing off the sweet ass aikido moves he pulled off, and calling it a great "randori". Looked to me like the guy had quite a bit of sparring knowledge under his belt.

Robert: I back you. A lot of theories are being posted here. Anyone willing to experiment?
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:41 PM   #134
Dan Austin
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Robert King wrote: View Post
I do a lot of training others in crisis intervention where atemi is not allowed (legal), where all you can do is take shots until you have an opportunity to try and control someone with minimal force or damage. So I try to use the aiki-boxing as an opportunity to test my reactions in this setting so I can help others protect themselves.
In that case Greco clinchwork a la Randy Couture is the ticket, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_3ed_mB6Q

You guys wound up in a couple of tie-ups which is exactly what you want if you are trying to control a boxing attack (which is the normal attack people use) without hitting back or getting clocked. From a dominant underhook position you can also control the head, and have a much easier time transitioning into takedowns and controls, including capturing the arm you have underhooked. Couture has dominated strikers in MMA with his clinch skills, this is precisely the ticket for your scenario. His videos are uniformly good, and his new book Wrestling for Fighting is solid as well. Finding a local wrestling club would be key as well.

In any case, arm control straight off a punch will rarely ever work, as you've noticed, while getting a dominant clinch position and going from there will definitely work. The only reliable way to reduce the degrees of freedom a puncher has standing up, while keeping the fight standing, is to clinch. As a matter of fact the Straight Blast Gym clinch video shows an entry off the very elbow shield you're using. Instead of blocking the cross and coming over the arm to wrap it (which seems natural but which would hand the underhook to uke, if he knew to do it, which would then prevent you being able to do the whizzer/crank you were doing), you block and then shoot your arm under to get the deep underhook position Couture shows (grab the opponent's front deltoid) and with your right hand stiff-arm his head and crank him over to your right and down, in position as if to prepare to knee him in the head. You can improvise control moves from there, particularly with his arm caught against your neck and shoulder.

Edit: here's an example of going in for the underhook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WC8L...elated&search=

Last edited by Dan Austin : 09-07-2007 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:45 PM   #135
Aikibu
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

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Dan Austin wrote: View Post
LOL. This is *exactly* what I was getting at, and the idea that this clip supports Aikido is incredibly funny. Anyone who wants to claim this on behalf of Aikido has been swilling the KoolAid far too long. Logic along the lines of "this is aiki, Aikido is about aiki, and I do Aikido...therefore I can do this!" is just delusional. This is boxing, not Aikido. Aikido training is about as far removed from boxing as possible. Training ikkyos and whatnot against meaningless attacks in no way prepares you to do this, training in boxing gives you this skill, hence my prior recommendation to train with a boxing coach. If you get grappled, wrestling will effectively teach you to counter any attempts to grapple you. If you do wind up on the ground, submissions training will allow you to defend yourself and get back on your feet. In other words MMA is the body of modern effective fighting technique and training methods that develops real skill, the only thing Aikido brings to the table is the defensive mindset - which doesn't require any ongoing training in an Aikido school to do.

Ueshiba's revelation was not to resist, contend, and outcompete, but to take the openings presented by being attacked. He who attacks opens himself to be countered in doing so, and should be shown the error of breaking harmony with the universe as it were. In theory. This is also a sound legal basis for self-defense, and is commendable. However the important thing to note is that Ueshiba traveled Japan and became an accomplished martial artist prior to reaching a more mature and meaningful understanding of martial art. Emulating him today would entail doing the same, which means embracing MMA as the gold standard syllabus of realistic unarmed technique and training method. The standard Aikido syllabus today is practically worthless in addressing modern hand to hand fighting. The title of this thread is apt - aiki-boxing is what Aikido should be, but isn't. You can't have an art whose execution depends 90% on atemi, spend 0% of your time training realistic atemi, and expect a good result. Unless you spend 90% of your training time boxing, the 90% atemi just isn't going to happen for you.
Yaaaaaaawn. So many generalizations... about Aikido... It's ineffectiveness.... how it doesn't work.... Counter punching not Aikido Blah Blah Blah...

Check out a few more Vids there Dan...You'll See some amazing simlarities between Ueshiba... Shioda... Yamada... Saito... Hendricks... Nishio...Tanaka... and on and on do EXACTLY the same thing this guy did only they call it Randori...

If your Aikido SUCKS it's not AIKIDO's fault. Somehow the guy faces an angry crowd and he's supposed to keep his hands down... block instead of avoid punches... throw a few kicks... not back up and create space/openings????

Last but not least Here you are touting O'Sensei's experiance before he developed Modern Aikido on the one hand.... and on the other hand you blame the very SAME Syllabus as a reason for Aikido's ineffectiveness..... Also you don't take into account How his Modern Era Students took what he gave them and refined and advanced that same Syllabus???

Make up your mind Dan... You can't have it both ways...You toss your whole argument out the window with that premise... The proverbial "Baby with the Bath Water."

I have been around a long time and have heard these very same "arguments" over and over again...

Randy Couture is a GOD!!!

In conclusion your view of Aikido and it's various flavors is limited at best...Our Aikido is measured by how effective it is against other Martial Arts There are other flavors that use the exact same measurement.

You need to get out more my brother....

If your "Standard Aikido Syllabus" Sucks you're not practicing hard enough...Go find a Teacher that sets a better example. I can think of at least a Dozen right off the top of my head.

William Hazen
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:54 PM   #136
Dan Austin
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Last but not least Here you are touting O'Sensei's experiance before he developed Modern Aikido on the one hand.... and on the other hand you blame the very SAME Syllabus as a reason for Aikido's ineffectiveness.....
YAWN. Another steadfast Aikidoka. Yes, the syllabus is impractical and outdated. People don't fight the way Aikido trains. Maybe they used to in turn of the century Japan, but not here and now. But keep drinkin' that KoolAid. Then again Random and Pointless Capitalization might be a Symptom of Overdose, so it might be Wise to take a breather.

Last edited by Dan Austin : 09-07-2007 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:27 AM   #137
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Oh dear...
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:22 AM   #138
Aikibu
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Dan Austin wrote: View Post
YAWN. Another steadfast Aikidoka. Yes, the syllabus is impractical and outdated. People don't fight the way Aikido trains. Maybe they used to in turn of the century Japan, but not here and now. But keep drinkin' that KoolAid. Then again Random and Pointless Capitalization might be a Symptom of Overdose, so it might be Wise to take a breather.
What syllabus are you reffering too Dan??? Nishio...Shodokan...Tomiki...Yosheinkan...Hombu...Iwama...
Obata...Ki...Last I counted there are over 20... all of them rooted in Aikido

I see how you avoid my question by attacking me personally....

To me that simply means you don't have an answer Which kind of infers that your premise that "The Syllabus is outdated"... is based on ignorance and inexperiance...

It's ok with me bro...Folks often post thier opinions without any cohesive/coherent arguments to back them up. I have done it on occasion myself.We call it where I come from a "Logical Fallacy"... LOL

Come to the next Aiki-Expo Friendship Demo where you'll meet Yudansha of all Aikido Styles and Backgrounds and be givin the opportunity to explain yourself.

In the recent past we have had many people say exactly the same things about the "Syllabus"...The simple answer is to have them demonstrate exactly what they mean. In other words walking the walk... not just talking the talk...

Just ask Mark Tennenhouse....LOL

Me why I'll just keep practicing hard...Cross Training in other Arts to expand my experiance of Shoji Nishio's Aikido and not worry too much about Ad Hominums on the "intranets"

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 09-08-2007 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:46 AM   #139
Dan Austin
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

OK William, since you imply that you can do it better than the gentlemen who have posted their videos, why not post a video of yourself doing so? Heck, let's make it even easier - since you say you can rattle off a dozen names of uber-Aikidoka, surely you can find video of them that would impress the laity here as somehow not being a cooperative affair? Let's lower the bar even further, how about a link to ANY video that shows what you believe is an effective and valid demo of Aikido against uncooperative attacks?

You see, the empty statements (and burden of proof) are on the side of those claiming Aikido is effective relative to other arts. All the logic and empirical evidence is on the side of believing that cooperative training is not an efficient means to develop real ability, and techniques that rely on capturing arms and manipulating them are low percentage except against staggering drunks.

As far as I'm concerned people can do what they like, but I think its disingenuous and unethical to give people, particularly martial newbies, the impression that Aikido training will give them good ability to defend themselves. Other than that, have at it.

So, keep on crosstraining so that you have something you can actually use if you need to. In the meantime I'll start the cricket chirping soundtrack as we wait for you to post the video links...chirp...chirp...chirp.....
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:39 AM   #140
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

This thread has gone from interesting to hilarious to sad of late.

Jeff and Bob. You guys are getting better at this and once again I applaud your efforts. It's interesting and sometimes painful to hear the theories of those who have never faced a serious threat to their life and have come out alive. Imho one experience of this can fix a lifetime of delusion.

I'm happy that you guys are trying to sift delusion from reality through training and practice. As for the video, the elbow block worked nicely only when used in conjunction with good Irimi. It is critical to close distance during any opening in the boxer's defence. Blocking and standing there is not good. In many of the clips, the elbow block and crouch placed one in precise striking distance for a roundhouse to the face/head, which would probably end the fight if we were dealing with muay thai or thai boxing. As said elsewhere, good use of ma ai, peripheral vision and deep entering without fear of being hit will assist in your applications overall. Also, if you attempt to create kuzushi of any type at the instant of contact with the attacker you should have improved results. In most cases loss of footing was a direct result of using too much upper body strength. You have to let your core, hips and legs generate the power for you. Use the spine and arms as conduits. Good posture and tegatana are your friends.

Things to avoid once again are turning of the back, defending/blocking too much (when we use Sen timing Aikido becomes a very aggressive MA, nothing defensive about it) and trying to trade punches. I'll reiterate that trying to use a boxing tactical set will ensure that you play the boxer's game, and if he is better at it than you, then you will always come up short. Aikido is about maximizing the weaknesses in every strategy. I think your plan is to develop Aikido responses, if this is the case you need to seriously study what the Aikido tactical approach offers and how it addresses the boxer's approach, then work on the physical skills required to apply it (this is the hard part). Entering and passing drills using boxing attacks may be a start.

I was hoping to have some vids for you by now. My apologies, it's hard to find folks who are willing to get injured to prove a theory . My approach will minimize the degree of protection to allow the instinctive aspects of the Aikido approach to kick in due to necessity. It's difficult to balance safety with realism in these things. I'm thinking about Blauer Tactical Suits as a possible (but pricey) option. Roman gave a good idea early on regarding the reduction of the glove weight imho.

Keep up the good work. Hopefully one day I can come visit you guys and help in person.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:34 PM   #141
Aikibu
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Dan Austin wrote: View Post
OK William, since you imply that you can do it better than the gentlemen who have posted their videos, why not post a video of yourself doing so? Heck, let's make it even easier - since you say you can rattle off a dozen names of uber-Aikidoka, surely you can find video of them that would impress the laity here as somehow not being a cooperative affair? Let's lower the bar even further, how about a link to ANY video that shows what you believe is an effective and valid demo of Aikido against uncooperative attacks?

You see, the empty statements (and burden of proof) are on the side of those claiming Aikido is effective relative to other arts. All the logic and empirical evidence is on the side of believing that cooperative training is not an efficient means to develop real ability, and techniques that rely on capturing arms and manipulating them are low percentage except against staggering drunks.

As far as I'm concerned people can do what they like, but I think its disingenuous and unethical to give people, particularly martial newbies, the impression that Aikido training will give them good ability to defend themselves. Other than that, have at it.

So, keep on crosstraining so that you have something you can actually use if you need to. In the meantime I'll start the cricket chirping soundtrack as we wait for you to post the video links...chirp...chirp...chirp.....
Again attacking me personally does nothing to further your argument. I have been in more than a few fights Aikido worked just fine for me. The next time I get into it with somebody I'll ask if we can film it. LOL

No matter how you feel about me personally the fact remains that you're all talk and have done nothing to prove your argument. You good at quoting negative generalizations about "capturing arms and cooperative training" and some of those can be valid depending on the arguement... But I have heard all that before and those I have invited to demonstrate what they mean did not need to "provide a video" they just had to show up. Some actually have, and all were surprised to learn there is much more to Aikido than meets the eye.

So there you have it...In the days before You Tube if we had a question about a Sensei's Technique we just crashed his Dojo and took a class. After the class most were polite enough to stand me on my head or knock me out if I asked nicely enough. Nowadays we have Stan's Expo's among others, where folks can come and walk the walk and experiance it for themselves.

When I started Aikido I had only one Criteria. Can the instructor kick my ass in a fight? After decades of Karate, Judo, Boxing, and the like I had heard about Aikido and checked out quite a few Styles until I came upon my present one.

So Mr. Tennenhouse errr ahh Mr. Austin....Put your money where your mouth is. If Aikido is that bad then I hope you take upon yourself to go to every Aikido Dojo out there in Texas and warn the students they're being fooled...You would be doing them a service, and as long as you were prepared to demonstrate exactly what you mean then perhaps some folks might actually listen.

Your keyboard is a piss poor substitute for reality Dan.

William Hazen
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:38 PM   #142
Aikibu
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
This thread has gone from interesting to hilarious to sad of late.

Jeff and Bob. You guys are getting better at this and once again I applaud your efforts. It's interesting and sometimes painful to hear the theories of those who have never faced a serious threat to their life and have come out alive. Imho one experience of this can fix a lifetime of delusion.

I'm happy that you guys are trying to sift delusion from reality through training and practice. As for the video, the elbow block worked nicely only when used in conjunction with good Irimi. It is critical to close distance during any opening in the boxer's defence. Blocking and standing there is not good. In many of the clips, the elbow block and crouch placed one in precise striking distance for a roundhouse to the face/head, which would probably end the fight if we were dealing with muay thai or thai boxing. As said elsewhere, good use of ma ai, peripheral vision and deep entering without fear of being hit will assist in your applications overall. Also, if you attempt to create kuzushi of any type at the instant of contact with the attacker you should have improved results. In most cases loss of footing was a direct result of using too much upper body strength. You have to let your core, hips and legs generate the power for you. Use the spine and arms as conduits. Good posture and tegatana are your friends.

Things to avoid once again are turning of the back, defending/blocking too much (when we use Sen timing Aikido becomes a very aggressive MA, nothing defensive about it) and trying to trade punches. I'll reiterate that trying to use a boxing tactical set will ensure that you play the boxer's game, and if he is better at it than you, then you will always come up short. Aikido is about maximizing the weaknesses in every strategy. I think your plan is to develop Aikido responses, if this is the case you need to seriously study what the Aikido tactical approach offers and how it addresses the boxer's approach, then work on the physical skills required to apply it (this is the hard part). Entering and passing drills using boxing attacks may be a start.

I was hoping to have some vids for you by now. My apologies, it's hard to find folks who are willing to get injured to prove a theory . My approach will minimize the degree of protection to allow the instinctive aspects of the Aikido approach to kick in due to necessity. It's difficult to balance safety with realism in these things. I'm thinking about Blauer Tactical Suits as a possible (but pricey) option. Roman gave a good idea early on regarding the reduction of the glove weight imho.

Keep up the good work. Hopefully one day I can come visit you guys and help in person.

LC
An excellent evaluation of the Video. I sure hope I get to a class of your one of these days.

William Hazen
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:06 PM   #143
skinnymonkey
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Camejo Sensei... Those are great points and great insight. We'll definitely try to keep those points in mind next time we try this.

It can definitely be tough to find people willing to take that kind of abuse... luckily, Bob and I are both a little crazy!

I really would love to see some vids someday. Hopefully you can find someone crazy enough (and still keep it safe for all involved).

We are always open to meeting a learning from others! It would be great to find a way to get together and train. Our doors are always open!

Thanks again for the great suggestions.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:26 PM   #144
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

William: I must admit you have me most impressed by your posts generally. I'd love to come train in Nishio style with you guys some time. I'm sure I'll learn something new.

Jeff: Thanks for the kind remarks. Something to think about during your next session. It was posted before by William:
Quote:
"In Aikido The fight is over at the moment of contact."

Shoji Nishio Shihan
If you can embody this in your Aikido the boxer (or anyone else) will not be a problem. But it takes deep study into how to make these things physically possible and then devising appropriate training methods and drills. Use of Sen is very important.

Just my 2 cents.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:45 PM   #145
Bob King
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Larry,

Thanks for your comments, as usual very insightful. Sorry you didn't make the World Games in August, hope we can make it to Trinidad and Tobago to see you!!! Heard that Shisihda was there in 2006 after he spent time in Vassar.

Bob
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:26 PM   #146
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Funny thing is that yes the principal of Aiki is useable in all venues of physical (and sometimes nonphysical) interaction.

But the techniques that we learn in aikido are not so universal.

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Old 09-09-2007, 07:26 AM   #147
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Robert King wrote: View Post
Larry,

Thanks for your comments, as usual very insightful. Sorry you didn't make the World Games in August, hope we can make it to Trinidad and Tobago to see you!!! Heard that Shisihda was there in 2006 after he spent time in Vassar.

Bob
Hi Bob,

My doors are welcome to all to come and train. We're lucky to have had some very skilled Aikidoka pass through our dojo from a few different styles.

We really tried to make it to Ohio in August, but financing was just not there. My original Sensei was there though, he was part of the UK squad. They won the Kongo Dantaisen I think.

Yes, Shishida spent 2 weeks with us down here, but it was in 2004.
We have a small group here so the sessions with Shishida were very much like personal tutoring. The insights gained from him caused a quantum leap in my training I think. It was through him I got a better idea of how the whole core power/spinal alignment/use of tegatana concept works. The difference in precision, control and power generated through waza is quite interesting.

On a related note to your Aiki boxing tests, we train regularly with the local Kendo group. It has improved our sword handling skills and understanding greatly overall, and also gives the Kendoka an idea of how the sword and empty hand correlate in the execution of unarmed Aikido waza. We also did some bokken disarms with them (kata style of course). They got very intrigued with that so this week we plan on doing some resistance freeplay with them, using some protection. It may take the form of freestyle empty hand vs shinai (i.e. shinai dori) or shinai shiai (we haven't decided yet). It should give some good insights since we will be dealing with Kendo black belts who know how to use a shinai or bokken quite well.

Will try to tape it and let you know if we survive.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:16 AM   #148
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
William: I must admit you have me most impressed by your posts generally. I'd love to come train in Nishio style with you guys some time. I'm sure I'll learn something new.

Jeff: Thanks for the kind remarks. Something to think about during your next session. It was posted before by William:
If you can embody this in your Aikido the boxer (or anyone else) will not be a problem. But it takes deep study into how to make these things physically possible and then devising appropriate training methods and drills. Use of Sen is very important.

Just my 2 cents.
LC
Thank you Larry...The feeling is mutual. I always enjoy the Shodokan perspective you and Peter R.

I think that our flavors of Aikido have much in common.

William Hazen

P.S. Do you know any Shodokan Aikido Yudansha out here in L.A. that you would reccomend?
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:25 AM   #149
PeterR
 
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
P.S. Do you know any Shodokan Aikido Yudansha out here in L.A. that you would reccomend?
Hmm - the guy to ask would be Bob King - one of the people in the aiki-boxing clips. I saw his Yondan test in front of Nariyama Shihan about 7 years (?) ago. He would be much more up on who is where in the US - Shodokan wise.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:33 AM   #150
Dan Austin
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Aiki-Boxing

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Again attacking me personally does nothing to further your argument.
William,

All I did was poke fun at your capitalization quirks; now I think you are just using this to avoid answering any substantive questions. Poor you, so picked on...let's stick to the facts shall we?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
I have been in more than a few fights Aikido worked just fine for me. The next time I get into it with somebody I'll ask if we can film it. LOL
So you say. Even if true, a sample of one is meaningless. I also note that while you told Dalen to train one thing at a time, you yourself crosstrain and apparently call it Aikido. In any case you are still avoiding giving meaningful answers, which I predicted.

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post

No matter how you feel about me personally the fact remains that you're all talk and have done nothing to prove your argument.
I'm not interested in you personally, I continue the conversation for the benefit of people like Dalen who deserve a spectrum of honest views to evaluate. Furthermore I cannot prove a negative. I can't put together a video proving that Aikido doesn't work, but all you need to do is provide one decent example that it does. The empirical evidence is all on the side of cooperative training being a poor means of preparing for a competitive endeavor. You are the one saying it isn't so. You in effect claim the moon is made of green cheese, and if I don't believe you, I should build a rocket ship and go visit it. Doesn't work that way. The burden of proof is on you to provide something that makes an outlandish claim the least bit believable. As predicted, you have nothing to back up your fan worship of the super-Aikido teachers you admire.

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
So there you have it...In the days before You Tube if we had a question about a Sensei's Technique we just crashed his Dojo and took a class.
Well, these aren't the days before YouTube. And *I* don't have any questions. I have never seen Aikido that compares favorably to competitive combat arts. I already know what sort of training leads to functional skill, and it is common sense. You are claiming something that is not common sense. You might fool a Dalen into visiting someone who seems impressive, but impressing newbies is easy. He needs a base of competitive combat training to evaluate a teacher and a teaching method. If he just goes to one of your recommendations he'll likely be swilling KoolAid in no time, and asking the same question years later.

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
So Mr. Tennenhouse errr ahh Mr. Austin....Put your money where your mouth is. If Aikido is that bad then I hope you take upon yourself to go to every Aikido Dojo out there in Texas and warn the students they're being fooled...You would be doing them a service, and as long as you were prepared to demonstrate exactly what you mean then perhaps some folks might actually listen.
I can't help people without any sense, and I only talk for the benefit of those who ask questions. I don't want to impose my view or piss in anyone's KoolAid if they're enjoying it.
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