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Old 04-27-2007, 11:17 PM   #51
Edward
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Re: Thrown out of the principals office.

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Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
On a side note, this is the first time I have EVER been thrown out of a principals office.
Better late than never
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Old 04-28-2007, 09:24 AM   #52
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

I can hear you're angry with the situation, bewildered by political defense and appalled at the ignorance of adults . Just remember, you, as an aikidoka , have had the benefit of the best education of any of those people. Maybe you can help them learn, too.

Anyways, I'm very sad for the way your son was hurt and I know it is painful to let your kids out of your hands and away from your immediate protection only to have them hurt.

Since this is an Aiki site I'm going to recommend teaching Aikido at the school.

I believe you have seen my program on line. In case you haven't please check out the Santa cruz county office of education web site http://www.santacruz.k12.ca.us/alt_e...dspirit07.html. I'd be happy to help. I'd even be willing to come to your school district if you thought that would help.

jen

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 04-28-2007 at 09:29 AM. Reason: add url
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:10 PM   #53
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Silver Valley Unified School District

Same Silver Valley Unified School District. This happened at the middle school this time.
http://www.desertdispatch.com/onset?...e=article.html
No worries, all is well in the Silver Valley Unified School District.
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Old 04-28-2007, 04:15 PM   #54
mwible
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

i greatly comend your attitude during this incident.
on the other hand im a rather big guy for my age (17), standing about 6' 1", and i take Tae Kwon Do and Aikido both, so i try to exude an attitude of humility, but also a "u dont want to mess with me" kind of thing. so, no one really messes with me at all.
but to get to the point, i dont think i could let some punk kid push me like that "several" times. maybe once and he'd be fine. but after 2 i think id have to "ago tsuki age" his butt. thats just my personal attitude though. so, again, i comend u for being able to just stand throught that, that takes guts, and some serious self control.
but one thing i dont agree with, is just this: never, ever, turn your back on an aggresor. if u hadnt of turned away, u probably wouldnt have been nocked out, you would have seen it coming and beeen able to react. or atleast, if you are going to turn around and walk away, keep looking out of the corner of your eye for an advance. and be ready if u see it coming. thats just about all i can say.
but i went through a similar expierience with some stupid kids a few months ago. there were about 4 of them and they were all throwing some snow balls at me from a distance, so i just kept walking away from them, but i still kept an eye and an ear out for any of them coming towards my back, sense they started to run after me. i got to the top of a hill and the other side is steep, so i got to the bottom before they did the top, and thats when they stoped. they kept calling after me tho, wanting to fight me. so, i think i can understand what you went through, its hard to reign your first impulses in. but im kind of glad i didnt hurt any of them. next thing i would have known they probably would have been defacing my property, or worse, messing with my family or friends.
-in aiki
-morgan
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Old 04-28-2007, 04:53 PM   #55
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

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Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Ricky,

No, being shown the door isn't a misadventure. Had you refused to leave or created a disturbance, it would have played directly into her hands. At this stage, you have the popular image of a concerned parent, the parent of a victimized child, although I doubt the school administration would characterize you that way. To them, I suspect you are viewed as a pain in their office chair mating surface.

In my opinion, your best course of action remains to behave as a gentleman, remaining resolute without becoming strident and hostile. Regardless of what you choose to do in terms of calling the police, filing a lawsuit, going to the media, behaving reasonably in a measured and rational way will be to your benefit.

Unfortunately for your son, this could have a splash-back effect on him and he should be "as cautious as a virgin" in his conduct at school from here on in. Sorry that you're going through this..it must be awfully encompassing in your lives at this point and it won't be a lot of fun for your family. Best of luck.
Once again Michael, you are spot on.
Thank You,
Ricky Wood
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Old 04-29-2007, 12:09 PM   #56
jennifer paige smith
 
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Lightbulb Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Same Silver Valley Unified School District. This happened at the middle school this time.
http://www.desertdispatch.com/onset?...e=article.html
No worries, all is well in the Silver Valley Unified School District.
Yes, they suck. But,'keep your friends close and your enemies closer'.
The thread is titled THE ART OF PEACE vs. Silver Valley etc.
I'm still intersted in the Art of Peace ( I believe that is a reference to the philosophy and practice of aikido) as it relates to this problem. I'm hearing a shortage of aikido techniques or solutions ( unless there is something productive that I'm overlooking ) being fully discussed and I feel that is what we need to focus on for solutions that are consistent with aiki values and systems.

So, now we've established they suck, what's next.

Have you given any consideration to teaching an aikido program in your school district?

Last edited by jennifer paige smith : 04-29-2007 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 04-29-2007, 05:51 PM   #57
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Yes, they suck. But,'keep your friends close and your enemies closer'.
The thread is titled THE ART OF PEACE vs. Silver Valley etc.
I'm still intersted in the Art of Peace ( I believe that is a reference to the philosophy and practice of aikido) as it relates to this problem. I'm hearing a shortage of aikido techniques or solutions ( unless there is something productive that I'm overlooking ) being fully discussed and I feel that is what we need to focus on for solutions that are consistent with aiki values and systems.

So, now we've established they suck, what's next.

Have you given any consideration to teaching an aikido program in your school district?
Jennifer,
Just in case you missed it, I was shown the door OUT of the principal's office. I haven't been invited back yet. What do you think the odds are of them letting me teach aikido there?
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:02 PM   #58
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Same Silver Valley Unified School District. [...snip...] No worries, all is well in the Silver Valley Unified School District.
I've thought for some time that part of the issue is to maintain deniability. You don't want those pesky kids gathering evidence that this kind of thing actually does happen on campus.

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Old 04-30-2007, 12:15 PM   #59
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Michael Riehle wrote: View Post
I've thought for some time that part of the issue is to maintain deniability. You don't want those pesky kids gathering evidence that this kind of thing actually does happen on campus.
I agree. Schools create policies to avoid law suits. Those "zero tolerance" policies prohibiting students from raising a fist to defend themselves really tick me off.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 04-30-2007, 12:40 PM   #60
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

Any policies against video taping the bullying?

Best,
Ron

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Old 04-30-2007, 03:09 PM   #61
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

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Any policies against video taping the bullying?
Not yet. But it's only a matter of time.

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Old 04-30-2007, 03:56 PM   #62
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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James Davis, Jr. wrote: View Post
Those "zero tolerance" policies prohibiting students from raising a fist to defend themselves really tick me off.
What has happened is that the children are being held to a higher standard than to the societal norm. Children with still developing brains, that are still trying to figure out what it means to be a responsible adult (because they are not there yet), are expected to be better (mature) "adults" than the ones making the policies.

An adult in the same situation (especially in the case of self-defense) gets wwwaayyy more latitude by society and the law. On the other hand, if we as adults are attacked and beaten, it is also expected (or hoped) that we would report it to the authorities. Yet, if something happens between "kids"... well then it's just "kids being kids". So, are they kids (and be allowed to "act" like ones), or are they über adults?

"Zero tolerance" as a policy that is used to merely suspend and ultimately expel students (which is how it's enforced), is not a tool to help students. It is there to aid the school's and district's number crunching.

thanks,
Adam
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Old 04-30-2007, 09:06 PM   #63
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Adam Bauder wrote: View Post
What has happened is that the children are being held to a higher standard than to the societal norm. Children with still developing brains, that are still trying to figure out what it means to be a responsible adult (because they are not there yet), are expected to be better (mature) "adults" than the ones making the policies.

An adult in the same situation (especially in the case of self-defense) gets wwwaayyy more latitude by society and the law. On the other hand, if we as adults are attacked and beaten, it is also expected (or hoped) that we would report it to the authorities. Yet, if something happens between "kids"... well then it's just "kids being kids". So, are they kids (and be allowed to "act" like ones), or are they über adults?

"Zero tolerance" as a policy that is used to merely suspend and ultimately expel students (which is how it's enforced), is not a tool to help students. It is there to aid the school's and district's number crunching.

thanks,
Adam
I remember a fight I got into in high school with a kid. He attacked me because his friend told him I said something that I still to this day do not remember saying. I did not throw a punch, I pushed him away until it was broken up. I was suspended for 5 days. The principle said he did not care what the situation was. I informed him that next time, I would make sure I was deserving of that suspension. He told my father I threatened him and said if I said anything like that again I would be reported to the authoritys.

I lost all respect for that man and my punk kid self made it my mission to get under his skin. I was not alone. He built his own personal demons with his own policies.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:07 PM   #64
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Jennifer,
Just in case you missed it, I was shown the door OUT of the principal's office. I haven't been invited back yet. What do you think the odds are of them letting me teach aikido there?
Until you calm down, none.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:24 PM   #65
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Until you calm down, none.
Jennifer Smith: Have you read the mans posts? It seems that he is and has behaved in a very calm manner, at least I cannot find evidence to the contrary. If I missed something feel free to point it out.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:34 PM   #66
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

Yeah, I keep on hearing art of peace as in turning the other cheek. We always want to understand aikido and peace through our own religion and culture. If Osensei himself were to be bullied like that, his way of achieving peace and harmony, would have been without any doubt, judging by his own past history, in kicking the hell out of the aggressors so that they would never ever think of doing it again, that's how you achieve peace and harmony for the rest of the school.

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Yes, they suck. But,'keep your friends close and your enemies closer'.
The thread is titled THE ART OF PEACE vs. Silver Valley etc.
I'm still intersted in the Art of Peace ( I believe that is a reference to the philosophy and practice of aikido) as it relates to this problem. I'm hearing a shortage of aikido techniques or solutions ( unless there is something productive that I'm overlooking ) being fully discussed and I feel that is what we need to focus on for solutions that are consistent with aiki values and systems.

So, now we've established they suck, what's next.

Have you given any consideration to teaching an aikido program in your school district?
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:30 AM   #67
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Until you calm down, none.
I concentrate deeply on my breathing every time I show up at school. This helps me remain quite calm. Haven't lost my temper yet in this situation and don't have any intention of doing so.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:57 AM   #68
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Edward Karaa wrote: View Post
Yeah, I keep on hearing art of peace as in turning the other cheek. We always want to understand aikido and peace through our own religion and culture. If Osensei himself were to be bullied like that, his way of achieving peace and harmony, would have been without any doubt, judging by his own past history, in kicking the hell out of the aggressors so that they would never ever think of doing it again, that's how you achieve peace and harmony for the rest of the school.
I never said turn the other cheek. I was recommending Irimi.
However, I'm into solutions and I'm not into straw man arguments one after the next.
Good Luck to you in whatever method you choose.
I'm on to greener pastures.
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:01 AM   #69
jennifer paige smith
 
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Isaac Bettis wrote: View Post
Jennifer Smith: Have you read the mans posts? It seems that he is and has behaved in a very calm manner, at least I cannot find evidence to the contrary. If I missed something feel free to point it out.
I take the opening phrase 'just in case you missed it' as aggressive. Maybe that's just me.
Like I said, Good Luck in working this out.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:45 PM   #70
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Edward Karaa wrote: View Post
Yeah, I keep on hearing art of peace as in turning the other cheek. We always want to understand aikido and peace through our own religion and culture. If Osensei himself were to be bullied like that, his way of achieving peace and harmony, would have been without any doubt, judging by his own past history, in kicking the hell out of the aggressors so that they would never ever think of doing it again, that's how you achieve peace and harmony for the rest of the school.
I agree. AIkido is about turning the other cheek just as much as judo is "the gentle way". Go and stand in front of any aikido shihan and try to kick his ass and see what happens.
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Old 05-01-2007, 12:52 PM   #71
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

Jennifer, it's interesting that you attack someone else, then when called on it, you fly away.

Perhaps part of the reason aikidoka get pegged as passive agressive.

Best,
Ron

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Old 05-01-2007, 02:03 PM   #72
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

[
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I take the opening phrase 'just in case you missed it' as aggressive. Maybe that's just me.
Like I said, Good Luck in working this out.
Jennifer,
Perhaps sarcastic but not aggressive. I apologize if I came off that way.
And thank you for your good luck wish. I think I'm gonna need it. As a result of what happened to my son I have been made aware of a difficult problem. Good teacher's BAD admin. His teachers have no problem receiving or replying to my emails and are quite prompt at doing so. I appreciate this. On the other hand, strange as it may seem, admin has difficulty receiving and replying to any of my email correspondence.
I would love nothing more than to offer aikido lessons at the school but there is a more pressing problem here. Not only does there appear to exist a bullying problem on a student level, it appears we have a similar problem at the admin level. The teachers are really helpless in such a situation due to the nature of their employment. In fact the only person/s who stand a chance at correcting such problems are parent's through the school board. How many other parent's have been bullied out of the principal's office? I don't know, but I felt like I was. This is a situation that needs to be corrected. We need to create an environment in which the teachers can teach and the students can learn. I am a determined sort by nature so it's not likely that I am going to go away as they are undoubtedly hoping.
Aikido is not something one should demand from our public schools, but competance is.
Besides, if admin wishes to learn aikido they must learn ukemi as well.
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:50 AM   #73
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Re: Silver Valley Unified School District

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Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
[
In fact the only person/s who stand a chance at correcting such problems are parent's through the school board. How many other parent's have been bullied out of the principal's office? I don't know, but I felt like I was. This is a situation that needs to be corrected.
I had a family training with me whose son had a similar problem at school. He was accosted on the playground by tow bullies. He basically did a very nice randori, including a koshi, and kept himself safe. He did not hurt the two assailants, except their egos.

His teacher and the admin folks freaked out. They were far more concerned that a ten year old knew how to protect himself than they were that two of their students were bullying him. The two parents went in to talk to the teacher and the principle and made no headway. I even wrote a long letter explaining what Aikido was all about to his teacher. She merely concluded that we ere some sort of cult.

There was no room here for compromise. Fortunately, my students were quite well off, the husband working for Microsft in the early days, so they simply pulled their son out and put him in private school. What do other people, without those resources do? As Saotome Sensei has said, sometimes conflict resolution means the removal of one of the combatants. Change may mean a fight rather than some nice mutual accord. You do what you have to do to protect your children If this is a systemic problem, then there wil be other parents who feel the same way. It is up to them to force change (that's the atemi to the opening). The administrators can change or leave but the parents need to insist on the changes needed. Administrators are inherently conservative. They ar over worked and under paid and they don't like people who cause problems for them. Initiating change often requires some conflict, that's just a fact.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:28 AM   #74
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

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Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Jennifer, it's interesting that you attack someone else, then when called on it, you fly away.

Perhaps part of the reason aikidoka get pegged as passive agressive.

Best,
Ron
No Flying. No Attack.( sounds like a 9/11 conspiracy). I put my hand to offering a solution to a problem presented online. It is meant to be a suggestion, not a judgement, not anything other than looking for a good outcome for the students (1st) and everyone. I can't possibly take sides, as I wasn't there, I don't know any of the people involved, and I have no investment in this other than a general caring. I have offered to come and help, I have offered my best idea, so far. I consider this active, not passive. The suggestion I proposed worked in a similar situation in this school district where I teach Aikido to kids in gangs.
You don't need to agree with my suggestion. Perhaps you have a better problem solving suggestion for Ricky that you would like to put forward.

However, the greener pastures that call are the students in my high school classes who are interested in changing their violent lives and thoughts. I'm going to ask them to look over this forum and tell me what they think of it all.
I'll be back with some of their wisdom.
Until then , good luck.
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:40 AM   #75
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Re: The Art Of Peace vs Silver Valley High School Bullies

Sounds good!

Best,
Ron

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