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Old 04-28-2007, 03:14 PM   #76
ChrisMoses
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
If you take the atemi out of Aikido there is no Budo. It's just a dance.
George, you know I don't agree with everything you ever say, but I totally agree with this. EVERY martial art I am familiar with uses (in some way, at some level) atemi, whether it be aikido, jujutsu, judo, iaido, batto, karate or capoera. How these arts utilize strikes can vary wildly.

As for not recognizing another's reality, while we are all unique observers, I believe there is but one Reality. All opinions are not right, and not every point of view is legitimate.

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Old 04-28-2007, 03:16 PM   #77
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Gregg Block wrote: View Post
A good boxer is a prime example. They often faint and don't commit their arms deeply. How are you going to get to them without some type of distracting strike.
Actually I find Aikido works very well against fainting boxers, I just kiai, and over they go!

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Old 04-28-2007, 03:22 PM   #78
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Christian Moses wrote: View Post
George, you know I don't agree with everything you ever say, but I totally agree with this. EVERY martial art I am familiar with uses (in some way, at some level) atemi, whether it be aikido, jujutsu, judo, iaido, batto, karate or capoera. How these arts utilize strikes can vary wildly.
You are certainly welcome to believe whatever you need to believe to make your world work for you. That doesn't make it right for everyone, no matter how hard you tell yourself and everyone else that it's so. Sorry.

Quote:
As for not recognizing another's reality, while we are all unique observers, I believe there is but one Reality. All opinions are not right, and not every point of view is legitimate.
Well, that says it all I guess.

I haven't gone down this road because I didn't want to. I don't think I will now.

LN

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Old 04-28-2007, 03:28 PM   #79
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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A good boxer is a prime example. They often faint and don't commit their arms deeply. How are you going to get to them without some type of distracting strike.
Several ways. Distrations do not have to be strikes, for one thing. I teach things you won't necessarily see in too many other dojo, but it's Aikido, and it tends to work pretty well. We practice classic "covering" and entering in certain ways, distance etc., and something that Seagal showed me over 20 years ago about a way to get a sort of tenkan in connecting with the shoulder or tricep in a way that can work well while protecting yourself.... and there are other ways as well....

LN

Last edited by Aiki1 : 04-28-2007 at 03:37 PM.

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Old 04-28-2007, 03:38 PM   #80
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Larry Novick wrote: View Post
Live long and prosper. Don't train with me. You'd hate it. You can't hit anyone. :-)
Can you explain this video please Larry?
http://www.aceaikido.com/IndyBackfist.mov
From your dojo webpage, video section
http://www.aceaikido.com/main.html

(I'm playing with VLC media player)

In that video, about the response to some kind of backfist, the uke appears to fall down without having been presented with any reason to fall. Am I just not seeing some 'cause', or ...do I now understand why you don't believe in the absolute need for atemi in aikido.
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Old 04-28-2007, 03:56 PM   #81
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Can you explain this video please Larry?
http://www.aceaikido.com/IndyBackfist.mov
From your dojo webpage, video section
http://www.aceaikido.com/main.html

(I'm playing with VLC media player)

In that video, about the response to some kind of backfist, the uke appears to fall down without having been presented with any reason to fall. Am I just not seeing some 'cause', or ...do I now understand why you don't believe in the absolute need for atemi in aikido.
You are not seeing what actually happened at all, and please don't insult me. That is a very unnecessary and insulting implication. You have no idea who I am, what I can or can't do, and the sacrifices I have made to learn what I know.

There was a guy at that seminar who didn't believe it either. He was a nice guy, very experienced at martial arts, big, strong, and wanted to test me. When he hit the ground, he jumped up and yelled - Do it again! with a big smile on his face. He then told me that he had never been thrown like that, and that he didn't even feel anything. I saw him again when I was later invited to teach at a seminar at Stanford. Different attack, different technique. Same response when he hit the ground. We had a great time.

I have all sorts of different anecdotes from over the last 25 years about experiences I've had with people, many who were very experienced martial artists, who were curious. And many where it wasn't simply a standard dojo attack and respond scenario.

I'll say this. It seems like it's hard for some people to believe that there might be something in Aikido that is different than what you know, that simply might work also. I find that incredible, and incredibly egotistical, but extremely prevalent in Aikido. I learned from many people. I'm glad I did. It saved my life, literally, and gave me an open mind. I studied atemi, both distractive and striking, nerve, soft tissue, etc. Just because I have learned and found effective ways of doing things differently than you, and perhaps a lot of Aikido practitioners, doesn't make what I do a fantasy.

LN

Last edited by Aiki1 : 04-28-2007 at 04:11 PM.

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Old 04-28-2007, 05:34 PM   #82
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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You are not seeing what actually happened at all, and please don't insult me. That is a very unnecessary and insulting implication. You have no idea who I am, what I can or can't do, and the sacrifices I have made to learn what I know.

There was a guy at that seminar who didn't believe it either. He was a nice guy, very experienced at martial arts, big, strong, and wanted to test me. When he hit the ground, he jumped up and yelled - Do it again! with a big smile on his face. He then told me that he had never been thrown like that, and that he didn't even feel anything. I saw him again when I was later invited to teach at a seminar at Stanford. Different attack, different technique. Same response when he hit the ground. We had a great time.

I have all sorts of different anecdotes from over the last 25 years about experiences I've had with people, many who were very experienced martial artists, who were curious. And many where it wasn't simply a standard dojo attack and respond scenario.

I'll say this. It seems like it's hard for some people to believe that there might be something in Aikido that is different than what you know, that simply might work also. I find that incredible, and incredibly egotistical, but extremely prevalent in Aikido. I learned from many people. I'm glad I did. It saved my life, literally, and gave me an open mind. I studied atemi, both distractive and striking, nerve, soft tissue, etc. Just because I have learned and found effective ways of doing things differently than you, and perhaps a lot of Aikido practitioners, doesn't make what I do a fantasy.

LN
Hi Larry,
Don't get me wrong on this... I am in no way intending to be disrespectful on this, I'm just stating what I CURRENTLY believe to be true, which I think you are as well. I'd be perfectly happy to be proved wrong... I'd have to change the way I explain things to my students, but they are used to me changing things periodically anyway. Since I regularly encounter folks who can do stuff that I have no idea how they do (and I seek these folks out), it wouldn't be a problem to incorporate another into my world view. So perhaps at some point we'll cross paths and you can prove me wrong; if so I'll be the first one in line to get you to show me how.

On an aside I think you know my ex, Cassandra Cosme from training with the Stones if I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure she told me she'd met you at some point.

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Old 04-28-2007, 06:03 PM   #83
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Hi Larry,
Don't get me wrong on this... I am in no way intending to be disrespectful on this, I'm just stating what I CURRENTLY believe to be true, which I think you are as well.

snip good explanation....

On an aside I think you know my ex, Cassandra Cosme from training with the Stones if I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure she told me she'd met you at some point.
Hi George - I was refering to the post where the implication, as I read it, was that the reason why I don't feel the need for atemi was because my uke simply tanked for me and went down for no reason. I found that very insulting. You and I may disagree, but I havent found anything you've said to be of that nature, which I appreciate.

I don't think I ever got to meet Cassandra, but I was in communication with her at one point, as I recall, because of some training I was giving re: the Stones, yup. :-)

LN

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Old 04-28-2007, 06:12 PM   #84
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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... because my uke simply tanked for me and went down for no reason.
Actually, I watched the clips on your site. I will say that, i would have taken the fall there as you were inside the attack and owned the space. I was taught to vacate when that happened and that's the way I train my folks. Out of curiosity, what would happen at that point if your partner planted and tried to be immovable? It looked to me as if he could have made that choice, regardless of how unwise it would have been.

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Old 04-28-2007, 06:17 PM   #85
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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You are not seeing what actually happened at all, and please don't insult me. That is a very unnecessary and insulting implication.
I did not knowingly insult you.
Please answer my questions.
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Old 04-28-2007, 06:24 PM   #86
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Actually, I watched the clips on your site. I will say that, i would have taken the fall there as you were inside the attack and owned the space. I was taught to vacate when that happened and that's the way I train my folks. Out of curiosity, what would happen at that point if your partner planted and tried to be immovable? It looked to me as if he could have made that choice, regardless of how unwise it would have been.
Yea, as I said in another post, a lot of what I do even looks fake, and I know that, I don't have a problem with that. Here's the good part - he didn't go down because it would have been unwise otherwise, it's because I had his balance through my connection to his striking arm and then my relocating my center. His structure was losing support already, and there wasn't a way for him to plant. That can only be felt, in my experience, not seen. My other hand was up where it was to protect from anything possibly coming fromm that direction, and/or to follow through with a full tenchinage movement if need be. My people are trained to take care of themselves, so they will vacate if it's dangerous to stay, so to speak, but afterward, their impression would be that the technique itself didn't work. People in my dojo don't take falls, in a sense. They go down because they cannot keep their balance, or they find their structure collapsing and cannot stay upright. I never get any breaks from them.

But - to add, I don't assume my Aikido is or will be perfect, in fact, in a sense, I expect it not to be - that's why the possible follow-through with tenchinage - not as atemi but simply connecting to the temple and release forward.

LN

Last edited by Aiki1 : 04-28-2007 at 06:29 PM.

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Old 04-28-2007, 06:28 PM   #87
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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I did not knowingly insult you.
Please answer my questions.
I believe I have in another new post.

LN

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Old 04-28-2007, 11:28 PM   #88
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

Lots of great stuff here. For me, the issue is resolved in the idea that correct martial practice requires a certain "aliveness" and that this aliveness can be had without striking but is very difficult due to our infinite ability to delude ourselves especially with this psychologically hot topic of violence. So striking (in my Systema practice) is a very important part of my own training. But I admit that part of that is due to my own inadequecies. Also, I have learned a lot about myself both by striking and being struck.

Mr. Ledyard, my understanding of systema strikes is similar to yours with the one caveat that it is my understanding that we don't strike to create tension, we point out the tension that is already there.

Mark, I don't look at it as doing as less as possible, I see it as attempting to not add things that aren't necessary. (sorry about the double negative) One thing I am trying to work through is the idea that in a technique based art like aikido, is that we are working with memory (a set technique) that we then try to superimpose onto reality. In systema we are asked to look at the reality of the situation, to move with what is there. For me, this is much more difficult psychically than my aikido training has been.

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Old 04-28-2007, 11:41 PM   #89
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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One thing I am trying to work through is the idea that in a technique based art like aikido, is that we are working with memory (a set technique) that we then try to superimpose onto reality. In systema we are asked to look at the reality of the situation, to move with what is there. For me, this is much more difficult psychically than my aikido training has been.
What???

I would -Never- characterize Aikido as you have above - just the opposite. In fact, your explanation of Systema is a fairly common discription of Aikido, at least in my world.

LN

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Old 04-29-2007, 12:23 AM   #90
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

I would never label our system as a "technique" based system. We're definitely a "prinicple" based system. It just doesn't make sense to me to practice that way. It'd be like learning music as a "song" based system instead of the way good musicians are trained. If you're trained in principle properly you can play any songs you want in just about any style you want. When I'm really doing aikido instead of training everything I do is different... and it's all some form of atemi with my mind/body as the tool. Ki, Ken, Tai Ichi or another way of saying it is Rigi ittai.

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Old 04-29-2007, 04:39 AM   #91
Mark Uttech
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Hi Mark,
I find it fascinating that you would describe the place of no technique as a "distraction"... I would rather put it that for most people technique and the desire to apply it on someone else is the distraction.

One of the things I love best about Systema practice is that afterwards I have much less investment in my Aikido manifesting in a particular way. I am much more able to simply let the technique create itself because I am less attached to a particular form.

Also, you seem to make getting by by doing as little as possible a negative... As someone who trains with Saotome Sensei as you do I find that surprising since it would be hard to find an Aikido guy who does more with less than Sensei. The slightest touch, the smallest movement and you are gone. That seems to be the ultimate in doing as little as possible to get by. I thought that was what we were shooting for...
Hallo George,
I stand corrected and am glad to be corrected by someone such as yourself. On the other hand, I guess I was thinking of the Buddhist
concept of: "Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is form". Saotome Sensei seems to me to embody this Buddhist concept, and yet, when he demonstrates he adapts. You can clearly see aikido kihon waza along with aikido principle. My remarks about the 'no technique' of Systema were made with the thought of teaching beginners. Beginners need some sort of form to follow and practice; they need some sort of map and signposts along the way. I remember one shodan test in Florida many years ago where Saotome asked the student testing to demonstrate Ikkyo omote from a shomen strike, and the student did not understand and kept doing ura over and over. Sensei gave us a lecture afterwards, explaining the important need to learn basics. Perhaps Systema has these basics and there is something I am missing.

In gassho,

Mark
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Old 04-29-2007, 07:39 AM   #92
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Just because I have learned and found effective ways of doing things differently than you, and perhaps a lot of Aikido practitioners, doesn't make what I do a fantasy.
Osu,

Nope, not a fantasy. IMHO (and 1 personal experience), I think perhaps you have learned and found some effective ways different from the "norm". I can say that from personally feeling (not not feeling) your way several years ago.

Also, IMHO, too many people are learning Aikido as techniques, not concepts. As hard, not soft. As external, not internal. As make, not let. As absolutes, not evolution. As either/or, not both.

There has been a lot of good recent debate and discussion about just these things. Atemi-waza just being the content piece of this thread. I have found them very instructional, insightful, and inspiring.

Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective here. Perhaps, again, we will also share space and time on the mat.

Rei, Domo.

Lynn Seiser PhD
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Old 04-29-2007, 09:23 AM   #93
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Mr. Ledyard, my understanding of systema strikes is similar to yours with the one caveat that it is my understanding that we don't strike to create tension, we point out the tension that is already there.
As I understand it, one does all there... striking to remove tension which would be the therapuetic side of training (the strikes are actually meant to be beneficial), striking the opponent's tension to create some level of dysfunction or to misalign the structure (the martial aspect; not necessarily beneficial to the opponent) and the third which is striking to create tension. It is my understanding that some strikes can be doubled so that the first one creates some tension and the second is therefore more effective. Also, there are times when the opponent is very relaxed when they strike to create some tension in order to get the structure needed to move them more easily. Anyway, that's just my take on some of the conversations I've had with the guys next door.

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Old 04-29-2007, 10:03 AM   #94
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Hallo George,
I stand corrected and am glad to be corrected by someone such as yourself. On the other hand, I guess I was thinking of the Buddhist
concept of: "Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is form". Saotome Sensei seems to me to embody this Buddhist concept, and yet, when he demonstrates he adapts. You can clearly see aikido kihon waza along with aikido principle. My remarks about the 'no technique' of Systema were made with the thought of teaching beginners. Beginners need some sort of form to follow and practice; they need some sort of map and signposts along the way. I remember one shodan test in Florida many years ago where Saotome asked the student testing to demonstrate Ikkyo omote from a shomen strike, and the student did not understand and kept doing ura over and over. Sensei gave us a lecture afterwards, explaining the important need to learn basics. Perhaps Systema has these basics and there is something I am missing.

In gassho,

Mark
This is only true if the art you do has a form.. you master that form then let go and allow the principles you learned via training in the form create their own forms i.e. take musu aiki. But Systema is specifically meant to free on from the strictures of form. All of the training, right from the start is designed to provide the internal structure to allow you to move completely freely, to generate power from ones on center of rotation and to totally relax the mind.

One of the problems with the form of Aikido and the way it is generally taught (including the way i learned myself) is that, even though it is supposed to utilize aiki in the waza, our method of training makes it very difficult for the less experienced folks to even discover what that means.

The standard training method is for the teacher to get up in front of the class and demonstrate a technique. He or she may be completely aiki as they do this, they may be simply allowing the technique to manifest the way it should based on how the teacher and the uke come together. The uke on his or her part will energize in a certain way based on having no real idea what the teacher might do, since the teacher can change the variation or even the technique in an instant and the uke needs to stay with them.

But what happens when it is the student's turn? They immediately attempt to imitate precisely what the teacher did. It doesn't really make a difference what kind of energy the uke is giving, it may be quite different from what the teacher was getting from his or her partner. No, the student is generally expected to try to duplicate what the teacher just did, right down to the particular variation shown. So right away, on a fundamental level, the student is going to try to shape the partner to the technique and not let how the two of them come together create the shape of the technique. So why would it be surprising that most Aikido folks don't have much "aiki" until very advanced stages of their training, if they get there at all?

I really like Chuck Clark Sensei's teaching methodology. he has an array of paired movement exercises which teach not only correct movement and body mechanics but give the student an experience of what the technique should "feel" like when it is perfect. These are done in a very controlled circumstance to eliminate any artificial forcing of the movement. If one is going to teach form, this is the way to do it, in my opinion.

The Systema training method isn't perfect... one of the downsides is that since they train mostly by doing a slow to medium freestyle practice, it takes them quite a while to discover some of the actual techniques that are used within the formless movement. I was at a seminar with Emmanuel Manolokakis and he was doing some great movement work... he was doing his blending movement, putting in some spontaneous strikes and then dumping the partner with a takedown.

When I was paired with the Systema guys they did a good job of moving and evading my strikes, and were fine with striking me and seeing my openings, but when it came time for the takedowns all that relaxation would disappear and they'd glom me and try to muscle me down. Of course they weren't an advanced group for the most part but what I found was that I ended up helping my partners by explaining the principles of the takedowns using the explanations I'd use in Aikido and they found it very helpful. The takedowns was the part of the practice that I could do with the advanced guys. What they do is totally aiki but they don't explain it so everyone has to figure it out by simply doing and watching the good guys demonstrate (sound familiar?) A bit of instruction in the form of the mechanics from me and it accelerated their learning curve.

So, as I have said, I think that Chuck Clark Sensei's approach bridges that gap very nicely. Just as the Systema guys do, he teaches principle rather than technique but he has ways of teaching those principles through a very intelligent use of form. I don't find that to be the case in a lot of Aikido.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 04-29-2007 at 10:07 AM.

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Old 04-29-2007, 11:04 AM   #95
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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the uke appears to fall down without having been presented with any reason to fall
Ironically, the first thing I noted in this demonstration, other than the lack of serious commitment in the strike, was the atemi to the head executed by the instructor. If you slow the video down and look at it frame by frame, you will see precisely what happened.

What I see is the atemi (whether it made contact or not) was done is such a way that uke's head moved. This in itself changed uke's balance. You can also clearly see that the striking hand was cut down and into uke's weak line, thus further compromising the balance. The instructor then continues his entering movement into and through uke's weak line.

In my book, all principles of aikido executed properly. With that said, my only issue with this is the lack of commitment from the attack. Uke just stuck his hand out there so I'm not entirely convinced the shite (tori/nage) would have been able to perform this technique with a fully committed attack and no atemi. (whatever your definition of atemi is) Then again, it is clear to me that the instructor is discussing and demonstrating principles, so a harder strike may not have been the appropriate response from uke at the time.

Not my cup of tea when teaching or demonstrating, however I contend that if you don't see what happened (which was plainly obvious in my book) one should spend more time at the dojo practicing and less time on the internet.
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Old 04-29-2007, 01:15 PM   #96
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Steven Miranda wrote: View Post
Ironically, the first thing I noted in this demonstration, ...., was the atemi to the head executed by the instructor.
Hi Steve,
This was precisely my impression as well. I am thinking that we have a terminology problem here and that some of us would consider atemi, quite clearly, others may consider something different.

I was taught that atemi is something quite a bit broader than just a physical strike, although it can be just that.

It can be a kiai, it can be a pulse of energy, anything which catches and shifts the attacker's attention. My friend Joanne Veneziano Sensei used to give the unsuspecting uke a kiss on the cheek during irimi nage... it was fun to watch an other wise strong person's structure dissolve when that happened. Another one was a story Saotome Sensei told us about O-Sensei... He went to apply a nikkyo on one of the deshi, one of those guys who did ten thousand sword cuts a day with wrists that look like my ankles... The uke didn't initially respond and O-Sensei simply smiled and bit his pinky finger which totally shifted the fellows energy and O-Sensei dropped him.

People don't understand about maai when it comes to atemi... In order for an attacker to strike or grab you he needs to close the distance and come to a focus point. It is the fundamental disadvantage of the attacker's role that he has to cross all of that distance to get to you. But you only have to own the space he wishes to occupy, you do not have to go out to him. Larry Sensei, in these videos does a nice job of doing that... his hand is in the space that that attacker needs to be in to complete his attack, therefore he is forced to vacate. When his structure dissolves, Larry Sensei is able to a very soft application of movement to completely off balance the attacker. This is precisely what I meant by atemi being implicit rather than explicit. This is very much how I was trained and how I teach my students but to me this is definitely a form of atemi and to Larry Sensei it is not. Perhaps the discrepancy has to do with using terminology that describes the intention rather the the result... this is going to have to take some more communication for me to understand. I can and do what Larry Sensei is showing in he films but I clearly visualize and describe it completely differently.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
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Old 04-29-2007, 04:45 PM   #97
Aikibu
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Larry Novick wrote: View Post
Ha - can't resist.

It amazes me that you think your reality is the only valid one.

Live long and prosper. Don't train with me. You'd hate it. You can't hit anyone. :-)

I'm not talking about the UFC, by the way....

LN
Actually Larry, I have seen you several times over the last 20 years on the mat so no worries about me training with you. You've stolen allot of your "style" from us as it is.

As for putting words in my mouth or making assumptions about my "reality" some might mistake that for arrogance which considering what a nice person you are is kind of sad.

See you around town.

William Hazen
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Old 04-29-2007, 05:13 PM   #98
Aiki1
 
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
Actually Larry, I have seen you several times over the last 20 years on the mat so no worries about me training with you. You've stolen allot of your "style" from us as it is.

As for putting words in my mouth or making assumptions about my "reality" some might mistake that for arrogance which considering what a nice person you are is kind of sad.

See you around town.

William Hazen
Your original statement was:

Quote:
William Hazen wrote:
....you MUST use Atemi in your practice if you expect your Aikido to be effective against other Martal Arts. To say it can be effective without it is to ignore reality.
To say that it MUST be that way and that way only, and that to put forth something else is to ignore reality, is to portray one's reality as the only valid one. That wasn't putting words in your mouth. Those are your words.

The rest was a joke, thus the smiley. Sorry.

To say that I have stolen anything from Nishio-style Aikido, especially the way you portray it, well, that kind of accusation.... I won't even comment about. That, to me, is a -big- thing to say here.

If you have seen me in the last 20 years, it must have been at my dojo, because I don't recall having been on any other mat, other than in BJJ, in the LA area, in that time. If you have been to my dojo, I don't recall it. Perhaps I'm wrong, my memory isn't perfect. Perhaps we've met, but at the moment I don't recall that either.

Last edited by Aiki1 : 04-29-2007 at 05:20 PM.

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Old 04-29-2007, 05:52 PM   #99
Aikibu
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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Larry Novick wrote: View Post
Your original statement was:

To say that it MUST be that way and that way only, and that to put forth something else is to ignore reality, is to portray one's reality as the only valid one. That wasn't putting words in your mouth. Those are your words.
I understand your point of view.

Quote:
The rest was a joke, thus the smiley. Sorry.
Apology accepted.

Quote:
To say that I have stolen anything from Nishio-style Aikido, especially the way you portray it, well, that kind of accusation.... I won't even comment about. That, to me, is a -big- thing to say here.
I think your perception of what I meant has far more to do with it than my explaination. You took a contrarian postion regarding Atemi here yet you teach & practice it. I personally think we're not that far apart. As for how I "portray it." I am curious as to what you understand our Aikido to "be". I know it as Yurusu Budo. You???

Quote:
If you have seen me in the last 20 years, it must have been at my dojo, because I don't recall having been on any other mat, other than in BJJ, in the LA area, in that time. If you have been to my dojo, I don't recall it. Perhaps I'm wrong, my memory isn't perfect. Perhaps we've met, but at the moment I don't recall that either.
Yes it would have been at your Dojo. More than once. I try to experiance all forms of Aikido in the L.A. Area and have been to over a score of Dojos. It has something to do with keeping an open mind and Shoji Nishio imploring us to make connections with other Aikidoka. Since I am not world famous, I could see how I would have escaped notice. I have never particpated in a class other than as an observer. Perhaps that is why you don't remember me. You do have a warm handshake and a friendly demeanor from what I recall.

I would hope that if there is another Aiki-Expo that you get a chance to demonstrate A.C.E. Aikido with your Aiki-Brothers and Sisters. It sounds like you have had several Satori and I would like to actually experiance the magic you describe here.

Respectfully,

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 04-29-2007 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 04-29-2007, 06:08 PM   #100
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Atemi waza: good or bad for Aikido?

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
You've stolen allot of your "style" from us as it is.
William,
What does this mean? I don't get it?

If I bought all of Nishio Sensei's videos (which I did) and then incorporated some of his ideas into my Aikido, did I "steal" something? If I went to some seminars with Endo Sensei and incorporated some elements of what he taught, did I "steal" something?

"Steal" implies that I have taken something I am not entitled to have. Nishio put out all sort sorts of videos and anyone could purchase them, not just folks from his lineage. He taught all sorts of seminars over the years which were open to people of all affiliations. Ostensibly he did this because he wished his "take" on Aikido to be widely dispersed.

So given the fact that no effort was made to keep things restricted, as they are in a koryu, how can you say that anything was stolen? Seems an odd term to use...

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
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